<p>I asked Columbia if I could defer my admission for one year, attend Juilliard, take classes at Columbia and reapply to Columbia-Juilliard, and they said no but I could apply as a transfer student, it would be harder and I may not get the same generous financial aid package.
Does anyone know how hard it would be to transfer to the exchange program later ? Do you think they may have a bad opinion of me for not accepting their offer the first time ?
I'm sorry if I keep asking the same kind of questions but I'm a bit confused and could not find any previous thread about this. I would also apply to the same program at Barnard.</p>
<p>My guess is that it would be easier to transfer later to Barnard than Columbia - although I’m sure someone somewhere has such statistics. Transferring into Columbia is tough - and you would miss out on the core, wouldn’t you? As you know, the exchange program is almost mythological - so few get accepted to it. You might also be able to transfer later to some of your other current choices, as well. But I would put Columbia as the least likely acceptance. (Not impossible, of course!)</p>
<p>My personal thoughts are you may be over thinking this. Do you want academics, or music? Or both?</p>
<p>If both, you have two fine alternatives, in Oberlin and Bard, if they work for you financially.</p>
<p>My memory may be faulty, but do you not have a full tuition scholarship to Juilliard?</p>
<p>You have fine academic and music options at both Oberlin and Bard. I can’t recall how these pan out for you financially and if they are feasible options.</p>
<p>or,</p>
<p>If you are in at Columbia, and have a full tuition scholarship to Juilliard, and if you are leaning (or fixated?) on Columbia because of the academics, why not accept Columbia, and arrange private instruction through the Juilliard studio instructor you would have if matriculated? </p>
<p>Assuming a transfer into the C/J exchange down the road is is akin to finding the Grail or the Ark of the Covenant. </p>
<p>Juilliard alone will not position you for grad work in an academic field. Columbia, Bard and Oberlin will. </p>
<p>Your three music options will position you for MM pursuit; Columbia and private study may, it may well not. Determine your focus, if at all possible. Decide what is most important.
Tilting at windmills gets you nowhere.</p>
<p>A wise sage once said:</p>
<p>"You can’t always git what you want.</p>
<p>You can try sometimes but you just might find</p>
<p>you get what you need."</p>
<p>I’d say a bird in the hand…if you have a good financial package from Columbia, it would make a lot of sense to take them up on it, enjoy entry with other first-year students, and arrange to take lessons on your instrument either through the free lessons program at Columbia or privately at Juilliard. You can put together a chamber group or perform in the Columbia orchestra. Frankly, unless I am missing something I find it hard to see the real advantage to the revamped Columbia-Juilliard program, since it no longer includes free tuition for lessons at Juilliard, doesn’t include Juilliard courses or ensembles, and even those accepted into exchange have to reapply as a junior and are in the same pool as the BMus applicants - a very competitive pool. Why not just finish at Columbia, keep up your musical chops and apply to Juilliard and other conservatories for an MM if you still are interested. You would have more options, more flexibility as a student at Columbia, and perhaps enjoy yourself a lot more. Columbia is a very intense academic program in a very intense city. You might like the flexibility.
If what you want is a double degree program, reconsider Oberlin and Bard, where you would have 5 years to do a BMus with all the trimmings and lessons and ensembles guaranteed, and an academic major in a challenging setting that will set you up for graduate school if you do well. Just take a look at the latest postings about Bard graduates. You would find similar results at Oberlin.<br>
It’s getting late in the process. If Columbia is your dream college, you should go for it.</p>
<p>Is there even a Barnard/Juilliard program anymore? not on paper, but in actuality? </p>
<p>Anyways, Bassplayer, sounds like you’re going to Columbia -Congratulations and have a great time. You should try communicating with Cosmos, who is a bass player attending University of Chicago with some knowledge of Juilliard.</p>
<p>“Is there even a Barnard/Juilliard program anymore? not on paper, but in actuality?”
A friend of my daughter’s was accepted to this program this year (unless I’m mistaken, but I am pretty sure of it.)</p>
<p>I was ready to send everything to Juilliard, told the teacher I was coming and now I am having these horrible second thoughts. I’d like to have Juilliard teacher+core curriculum+outstanding orchestra+NYC+… :p. And I hate the idea of telling the teacher “I changed my mind” as much as I hate the idea of making the wrong choice.
Anyway, thanks all for your answers !! CC music community is just amazingly helpful :).</p>
<p>have you asked the teacher if he will give you lessons if you go to Columbia?
Take a look at the general studies degree program at Columbia - you might be able to apply to it after Juilliard if that’s where you decide to go.
You will probably have second thoughts no matter what you decide to do. What you need to determine is which is the best decision for you and what you want to do in the next few years. The difference between Juilliard and Columbia is really vast - you will either be playing music all the time and maybe take a course a semester at Columbia if you can swing it, or you will be studying hard (it is a tough, demanding University, don’t kid yourself) at Columbia and trying to squeeze lessons and practicing into your day.</p>
<p>I’d like to point out a couple things:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Second thoughts are normal, regardless of which direction you go. Every time you walk through a door, you are giving up what you would have gotten by walking through a different door. It’s an uncomfortable feeling: “What might have been.” You will feel this way if you commit to Juilliard; you will feel this way if you give up Juilliard. The best way to deal with this is to make a list of pros and cons, and SAVE it. When you make your decision, and start doubting, look back at your concrete reasons for making your choice. Remind yourself that you were careful and thoughtful.</p></li>
<li><p>There are no guarantees. Based upon a few PMs, I’m thinking your biggest fear about Juilliard is that you will not succeed at the end of the road. But you know what? You might not succeed at whatever you do, wherever you go. No college degree comes with a guarantee.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>If you choose to hedge your bets and go with something with greater odds of success - will it be your second choice? Will you be happier without the risk? Or will you regret not having given something your best shot?</p>
<ol>
<li> To get a full academic scholarship at Juilliard as an international student tells me you must be a pretty accomplished musician. Congratulations on that significant achievement. Other acceptances indicate scholastic ability as well. What will you regret the most? Will you regret setting academics aside for 4 years (at least)? Will you regret giving up the opportunity to immerse yourself in music and little else?</li>
</ol>
<p>Undergrad is 4 years. It is NOT the rest of your life. </p>
<p>People who go to Juilliard sometimes switch schools mid-degree. Sometimes people who go elsewhere do the same. (N8MA listed the post-grad plans of his current graduating class of double majors. Some are continuing with music, some went a different direction. A few are going to Juilliard grad school. One transferred to Juilliard during undergrad. Point being: there is no one right way for everyone.)</p>
<p>It’s a difficult decision, but you have some great choices. Good luck.</p>
<p>Great post, binx!</p>
<p>My understanding is that Barnard does not pair with Juilliard. You can go to Barnard and take lessons only at MSM. If someone knows otherwise, please chime in. My D is very interested in Barnard but really likes the exchange that Columbia has with Juilliard.</p>
<p>[Columbia-Barnard-Juilliard</a> Programs | The Department of Music at Columbia University](<a href=“http://music.columbia.edu/programs/undergrad/juilliard]Columbia-Barnard-Juilliard”>Columbia-Barnard-Juilliard Programs - Columbia University Department of Music)</p>
<p>flute1298 the Exchange also works with Juilliard, same thing for the Joint Program. Actually if I understood well it’s just and exchange with MSM (ie Barnard+MSM lessons and that’s it), while with Juilliard it’s exchange and joint program if admitted (is Barnard+Juilliard lessons and Barnard+Juilliard lessons+Master @ Juilliard if you win the audition during Junior year at Barnard). I could be wrong but that’s what I read I think.</p>
<p>Bassplayer-</p>
<p>If you decide to go the Columbia route, you are not locked out of being in good ensembles (assuming the Columbia school orchestra doesn’t meet your needs). If you decide to go to Columbia alone, you have the option of doing the New York Youth Symphony (it maxes out at 22), in many ways it is as good as the Julliard college orchestras,if at times even better IMO.
If you go to columbia, one advantage is they rehearse at Riverside church, which is just around the corner from the columbia campus. They also have a chamber music program that has master classes with really high level chamber performers…take a look at NYYS.ORG. Nice part about the NYYS program is that it is tuition free, other then a small fee. </p>
<p>I also second Violadad’s post, whatever you decide, this isn’t the end of the world. Juilliard is an amazing place, there is a lot to be said about it, but there are many paths out there. Even despite what all the doomsaying idiots love to say, that there are no rooms for mistakes or paths that don’t work out, that is drivel. Having second thoughts is natural, part of our protection mechanisms:)</p>
<p>If you are accomplished enough to get into programs like Columbia and Juilliard, you already are on the right track IMO, trust your judgement and make adjustments as needed, and you will be fine.</p>
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<p>Umm, when is the deadline? I thought colleges had to know by May 1 (today) - or is it extended to Monday due to May 1 being a Saturday?</p>
<p>:) Thank you !! I’m going to Juilliard. Deadline is May 1st so I had to post it yesterday before 4pm (otherwise I was missing the postmarked deadline). Form is in the mail. I’m excited :d ! Thank you very much to everyone on this board for their thoughtfull advices and patient answers. Eventually, I realize it was no big deal. I loved every school on my list or I wouldn’t have applied and I would have been happy at any of these. Good luck to those who are still deciding !</p>
<p>Congratulations!</p>
<p>Yay! NYC is such an exciting place!</p>
<p>Bassplayer08, good luck. Maybe binx will adopt you. She’s probably going to go through withdrawal now that her son is finishing up his MM at Juilliard. ;)</p>
<p>Sorry - I can’t afford any more kids! Especially ones in NYC! If I adopt any music kids, they are going to have to be close enough for me to attend concerts.</p>
<p>However, S is heartbroken about leaving NYC. After 6 years, it’s home.</p>