My son will be choosing between latin and spanish . . (His elementary school has students take both). Any parents who experienced latin as an option for high school? Pros / Cons? He enjoys latin a lot but of course is only on a beginning level . .hard to project to what it might be like in the future . . (He is strong in general in English, writing and language).
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Back in the day, I took Latin from 8th grade through senior year. I loved it and I thought it was beneficial for SAT. My daughter took Spanish in middle school, did well, even traveled to Costa Rica with her Spanish class. When she arrived at BS this year, she chose to start Latin. She’s doing well in the class, but misses being able to speak the language and explore culture (vs. history). She plans to switch back to Spanish next year.
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Latin is great for a person WHO is interested in a STEM career.
My HS son will graduate with 4 years of Latin and French. Latin has provided him with a great work ethic and study skills. The first two years are a lot of work, as the students learn the vocabulary. Every night was a ton of homework. He had a lot of tests and quizzes. But the next two years are easier as they are almost all translation based, which is easy for him after learning the basics. In addition to study skills, Latin has increased his vocabulary. If your son is like mine, getting him to read books for pleasure is difficult. He would rather relax with video games. But Latin helped pick up the slack of substandard recreational reading, and he got great reading/writing scores on SAT and ACT. My younger son is now entering the same HS, and we are insisting he take Latin as well. In fact, after some initial arguments he now sees the benefits reaped by his older brother and has agreed. Now, if the choice were between Latin and another modern foreign language that would be a tougher call. I might lean towards having my son take Latin at school and doing some online coursework in Spanish, or maybe take a Spanish elective later Good luck!
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jcamine by starting with one language and switching over to another will that mean she takes an additional year? I think the requirement is 3 years in one language? Is it similar in your daughter’s school? NASA2014, can you elaborate on Latin and STEM? My son is interested in STEM and is a very strong writer.
Can you do both? Both DH & I had but one year of HS Latin – but helped us in our undergrad & grad studies. DH on faculty of med school, so he can see how few students take Latin, but wishes they had. There are a number of Spanish immersion camps for teens that can really enhance non-classroom communication, while allowing for personalization in the student’s area of interest. Speaking from our experience in the medical fields & having worked in the South & West Coast, IMHO your student will need to know Spanish if they want to get an internship, residency, or job later on. I am fluent in French & can communicate with some – but not being fluent in Spanish has closed many doors. The PA’s, nurses, radiology techs, admin/HR/execs, & docs who speak Spanish get hired first-- maybe it’s different in NY or Boston. I’m thinking about what my DD will need as an adult, not only as a college student…hey, who will support us in our old age!!!
At my school (Berkshire) you can take 2 languages and I have a friend who takes lain and Spanish.
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Start with Spanish and emphasize oral fluency… Latin will be easy once he speaks Spanish, but starting with Latin could have a negative effect on his confidence in speaking in another language (and his accent in Spanish) since Latin isn’t a conversational language
Wherever Latin can be helpful, such as science or medical fields, Spanish will be a decent substitute. On top of that, there are more Spanish speaking people, especially those who are not fluent in English, in the whole world as well as in the U.S.
I vote for a modern language. I don’t believe in taking a course of study just to help with standardized testing. I also feel one can easily lear/memorize the latin roots that might be helpful to medicine/science and word origin in general without dedicating years to studying it. I agree with @Golfgr8 that many professions, not just medicine, benefit from knowing spanish and that extends to the northeast part of the country as well.
I took Latin for 7 years and French for a few. Latin provided a great foundation. Some colleges have a modern language requirement though. A friend has a son at Washington & Lee who only studied Latin in high school and he’s finding that fulfilling the 3 year modern language requirement is quite challenging.
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I took 4 years of Latin in high school, and I loved it and learned the most about life from Cato and Cicero, lessons I still quote 40 years later. DD chose Latin and took 3 years in middle school and went to Rome. In high school she chose Chinese because she wanted a living language, but she has no regrets about Latin. You will have very few opportunities to study Classics in your/his lifetime. Carpe Diem!
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My D, who is a STEM kid, took French in middle school and began Latin at BS, just loved it – is now taking Latin IV. Her Latin teacher has been a great mentor to her.
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I took Latin for 2-3 years in high school and for 3 years in college. It is helpful for a medical/stem career but I would say it is helpful in general for better understanding of word definitions and grammar. One reason I took it was because I could get out of having to speak a foreign language. Now I wish I had taken Spanish too.
My 2 cents would be to take both. If you have to chose as young as grade school then I would start with the spoken language strictly because it is easier to start as young as possible. Add Latin later when both English and foreign language skills will be more developed and the nuances of Latin will be more meaningful.
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I recommend you talk to both departments when you re visit schools. 3 of ours took German and the third is in Russian. Mostly because she loves the teacher. Also because we found that as our kids had no formal education with language, it was better to be with kids learning an entirely new language. Their high school had many kids who spoke Spanish and French fluently when they entered high school but opted for entry level language course.
At Exeter you just have to complete up to the the 3rd level of a language. So if your child tests out of the first level of Spanish, they only need to take an additional 2 years. Then they can select a different choice. The particular school you are considering might also have some unique offerings that go along with your choice. A classical diploma for instance that set one apart from the other. Good luck in making the decision.
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I would opt for Latin.
Spanish, French, Italian, Romanian, Portuguese are all Latinate languages. Thus, if your son wants to take Spanish later on, Latin will provide a good background. Others may differ, but in my opinion, the current fad for “cultural” knowledge in the modern languages through middle school can water down the language instruction. (I’m an old curmudgeon on this point.)
Most Americans will not become fluent in a foreign language, unless they put in a massive effort to get exposure to the language in foreign countries, through summer programs and such. Even if Americans put in the effort, they may still find themselves easily outclassed by the “legacy” students, i.e. the students who grow up in homes speaking the language in question.
Look at this chart of the distribution of AP scores: https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/research/2016/Student-Score-Distributions-2016.pdf
If you compare the total group to the standard group for Chinese, French, German, Italian, Japanese and Spanish, you will see that there is a significant difference between the number of top scorers in each group.
If your son chooses Latin in high school, he will be part of a small, elite group of students. Not every child has the chance to take Latin.
And then, Latin has the advantage of a group of core texts–Cicero, Caesar, Catullus, Vergil, Ovid (etc.) --that form a canon used by later writers. As knowledge of that canon was the mark of an educated person, knowledge of that canon gives a student reference points to understand later texts.
In general, though, I would say that if your son has a strong preference for one language over another, then don’t meddle with thoughts of what he might do as an adult. None of us can see the future.
I am going to start by talking with his Latin teacher (who believe it or not was also my 7th and 8th grade Latin teacher). She knows him very well. Thank you. My gut is to allow him to take Latin if that intrigues him. He should have a feeling after revisit day as well
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Latin provides a great foundation for all Romance languages. But you may end up with a lousy accent in all of them if you start there – and becoming conversational in a modern language will be harder. I’m pleased my kid is eager to learn Latin, but she is already fluent in Spanish. People who learn Latin first are great at reading Romance Languages but often struggle with oral mastery.
re: Periwinkle’s comments:
“Even if Americans put in the effort, they may still find themselves easily outclassed by the “legacy” students, i.e. the students who grow up in homes speaking the language in question.
Look at this chart of the distribution of AP scores”
Don’t take a modern language for the goal of doing well on an AP or standardized test. Just like any other course of study, that shouldn’t be the driving force. Don’t “teach to the test”. That’s not why you are going to BS.
“Most Americans will not become fluent in a foreign language”
Pick the right study abroad program (full immersion taking classes in the language with natives of that country) and you’ll have success getting there. Plus, in the USA, there is plenty of opportunity to practice if one puts in the effort to seek it out.
Plus, for fluency and an acceptable accent, study earlier in one’s life is better.
As far as “If your son chooses Latin in high school, he will be part of a small, elite group of students”, what it the real value of that? Does it open doors? Are you going to hang out at cocktail parties regaling in stories of your BS latin class days? I don’t get this comment at all. No offense.
I have a really hard time believing if you asked CEOs and heads of human resources at Fortune 500 companies, tech leaders, or heads of the most respected non-profits in the country, which they would recommend, that the answer would be Latin over Spanish.
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Yes, it opens doors. From our observation, students who study Latin do very well in college placement.
There is also an academic effect, or at least a strong correlation. Students who take the SAT II Latin test and the SAT post higher scores on the critical reading and written part of the SAT than any other language sub-group. They are a mere 4 points behind the highest scoring sub-group on the math portion of the SAT, the students who take Chinese with listening. (Table 20, https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/TotalGroup-2014.pdf
Chasing a great accent is fine, but many students do not continue language study beyond the required minimum. In part many students do this because language study is not required past the third year of study for most competitive colleges, and there are other courses the students find more interesting. It make it difficult to double up on science electives, for example, particularly in later years. And then again, the question of which accent is the “best” tends to get tied up in debates about class and colonialism; is a Parisian accent better than a Canadian accent? Castilian Spanish rather than South American Spanish?
I’ll admit I do not understand the American fascination with Spanish over all other languages. Foreign language study can open doors, but if one were to place employment over all else, our students would be using the class time to learn computer languages instead. This is a trend in some states. http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2016/03/01/florida-senate-approves-making-coding-foreign-language/81150796/
And with respect, dos chicos, one should not decide which language to study on the sort of opinions CEOs spout to business magazines under the guidance of PR experts.
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