<p>Just curious, once one graduates from an OK Law School (not top 10 but not bottom of the barrel either) how easy is it to get a Dept of Justice / FBI / Secret Service / Treasury type work? My 8th grader is very interested in such a career - not necessarily practice law but sign up with one of the various Federal law enforcement agencies. </p>
<p>Also, does one really need big connections to become a Congressional staffer (talk about strange career aspirations :-))</p>
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<p>Out of Berkeley’s class of 2010 with 7,851 students, only 149 (1.9%) applied to law school. 128 (1.6% of the class of 2010) of them were accepted by a law school.</p>
<p><a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/CarDest/2010Campus.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/CarDest/2010Campus.stm</a>
<a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Law/LawStats.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Law/LawStats.stm</a></p>
<p>Even pre-law heavy majors did not send a very high percentage to law school:</p>
<p>English: 4.6% of those responding to the career survey
Political science: 8.0% of those responding to the career survey</p>
<p>At Cal Poly SLO, 6 (19%) of the 32 political science majors graduating in 2010 and responding to the career survey went on to law school. None of the 48 English majors responding to the career survey went on to law school.</p>
<p>It appears that high proportion of pre-law students at Harvard and Amherst does not reflect the proportion of pre-law students at other schools.</p>
<p>ucbalumnus:</p>
<p>I believe you misunderstood my point. I apologize if my point was somewhat confusing. I did not mean to imply that 25% of each graduating class applied IMMEDIATELY to law school upon graduation. Very much like med school , many applicants take several years to work before going to law school. At Harvard, for instance, 72% of admitted students have taken at least one year off after graduating from college, 51% at least 2 years off. The average age of law school applicants has been creeping up every year and is now close to 26 years old and the median is 25. The typical law school therefore waits three years before applying. </p>
<p>The official data the ABA gives out is the number of annual applicants with UNDERGRADUATE degrees from each school.</p>
<p>Berkeley, for instance, averages around one thousand law school applicants per year, with only 15% (according to your records) having graduated the previous spring. That is not unusual.</p>
<p>One thousand students from an average class of 7,850 that is around 13.3%. Less than the 25% average of most elite private schools but still a very large number. One may argue that the number includes some repeat applicants, but according to the ABA that number is very small.</p>
<p>Econ and poli sci double major</p>
<p>OP,
D.(first year medical student) has few people with law degrees at her Med. School. We very surprised to see that! With great interest in sports, “Sport Medicine” is a great alternative. I do not know how your S. feels about science classes. His other strong academic points (writing, public speaking) are definitely a great plus. In addition, Med. Schools accept any major (BS and BA) as long as pre-reqs are taken care of.</p>
<p>Out of all of those who ever apply to law school after undergraduate, how many actually get accepted to law school, and how many of them actually enroll in law school? Also, how many of them who enroll in law school enroll in a “good” law school whose graduates are most likely to get the “good” lawyer jobs?</p>
<p>ucbalumnus;</p>
<p>I have no clue and I suspect many are not finding what they expected. But who is anyway? </p>
<p>My point was simply to highlight the magnet effect that law schools exhibit with non STEM majors at top colleges and universities. Law is by far the most popular profession and some of it may very well be by default as floridadad55 has speculated. What else are pol-sci and history majors to do that offers greater returns (at least on paper)? </p>
<p>I believe you have been making the same point for biology and chem majors. if they don’t go to med school what are they going to do upon graduation? A PhD?</p>
<p>My first D was neuroscience major in college and is now in med school. My second D is pol-sci/econ major and will most likely go to law school. What could I suggest to her that is a more viable alternative? </p>
<p>I believe law is what you make of it. I worked 25 years as a engineer/entrepreneur and went back to law school at night (top 50 school) in my late 40s to study patent law. I now have my own practice, have no problems finding clients and advise lots of emerging tech companies. They trust me because I have faced what they are going through. And frankly, it is vastly more profitable than if I just was a consultant.</p>
<p>Head cheesemonger…I like that!</p>
<p>“Well, people are starting to figure out what a rip-off it is. That’s why the suit against NY Law School. People have been sold a bill of goods for years now about all the money they will make once they get out of law school.”</p>
<p>What some law school have been doing with merit awards is reprehensible (enticing students with grants that require the student to maintain a gpa the school knows is unlikely, given the school’s grading curve). And I’m not particularly keen on “launch grants” that permit law schools to report inflated employment figures for recent grads (but the grants do give the recipients practical experience, as well as income - - and some do get hired by their “launch” hosts). But I do not believe for a minute that any school is promising high salaries upon graduation - - and any student/applicant who would believe such a pitch is, shall we say, a dim bulb. Anyone with half a brain knows that most law grads do not waltz in to an assoc position at Wachtell with a six-figure base salary - - but too of newly-minted BA grads can’t be dissuaded from the misguided belief that, despite the odds, they will be among the fortunate few.</p>
<p>@turbo93 – You don’t necessarily need to have a law degree to work at a federal law enforcement agency, though the Department of Justice is more “law” focused, so it would help there if, in fact, he wants to be a lawyer. Whereas FBI, DEA, etc. that’s more criminal investigations (though they certainly have lawyers working there. ALL federal agencies have Legal departments). 8th grade is probably a bit early to make a decision like this, especially because his interest is likely fueled by watching shows like Law & Order, CSI, etc., am I right? You might encourage him to visit the pages for students that most federal agencies have online, so he can start getting an idea about what internships and other opportunities are out there (graduate school fellowships, etc) and what kinds of skills they’re looking for.</p>
<p>^^^ speaking of Law and Order :). Are the jobs for lawyers who want to practice criminal law?</p>
<p>Several of the kids that went to high school with my D (junior in college) or their siblings are now considering or enrolled in law school. They tend to have lawyer or doctor parents. Even my 12-year-old nephew talks about becoming a lawyer. I think he’s got a well-off friend whose dad is a lawyer. How many lawyers can this economy/country absorb? It seems to me they are pursuing the big bucks without really looking into what other paths are possible in life. It’s like that old jumprope game, Who Will I marry? “…doctor, lawyer, Indian chief”. My lawyer friend said not to become a lawyer unless you really, really want to work as a lawyer, with all that implies, the paperwork, the 80-hour workweeks, etc. There are more ways to make a living, many more ways.</p>
<p>“My lawyer friend said not to become a lawyer unless you really, really want to work as a lawyer, with all that implies, the paperwork, the 80-hour workweeks, etc. There are more ways to make a living, many more ways.”</p>
<p>But isn’t that sound advice for any field? (D was similarly cautioned re: arch.) </p>
<p>If you have a choice, choose something you enjoy. That is, of course, so long as (1) you can afford the cost of whatever post-BA/BS training is required and (2) you are willing to accept the life-style that your chosen profession supports.</p>
<p>I think it’s gotten more complicated, though. It used to be that law school wasn’t as expensive and you could get a law degree and choose a different path other than the big firms. Now, many students have such huge loans, that they can’t really afford the public interest jobs or smaller firms. The old days of hanging out a shingle are no more. I know someone who just graduated from Wash U Law and did NOT want to accept the Big Law offer she had from a Chicago firm, but she has to in order to pay back the loans. She will suffer for a few years and then, hopefully, move on.</p>
<p>^^ Yes, law school is expensive and students often take out huge loans (I didn’t; I chose a lesser school that offered full-tuition grant). But these days, BA grads don’t have as much career mobility as they did a generation or two ago. And many w/ undergrad degrees choose to attend grad school and incur grad school debt hoping for advancement, rather than stay in a low-level job. Those interested in grad sch (law sch in particular) need to crunch the numbers and take a good, hard look at the market - - but if a student stilll want the “status” of a JD or other credential (despite its cost), or is convinced that s/he will beat the odds and land that job at Davis Polk, it’s not the grad/law schools’ fault for giving the market what it wants - - at a price.</p>
<p>I think cellardweller is on the money – what’s a liberal arts grad to do (if s/he wants to move from an entry level job)? </p>
<p>(FWIW, in my circle, law grads seem to be doing marginally better, in terms of employment, than many of the MA/MPA grads - -but those prgms are probably less expensive than law sch.)</p>
<p>abasket – has your son ever considered doing the “Semester in Washington” program? American University has a good one and so do a number of other schools. My sophomore son, who is a poli sci major, is very excited about taking it. He does NOT want to go to law school. But I think it will give him extremely valuable insight into the various ways we can put his passion for government and politics to work. The program typically consists of taking 8 credit hrs. of classes and and 4 credit hours of internship. The classes and internships can emphasize many other things aside from politics such as international business, media, environmental studies, etc.</p>
<p>Perhaps this is just what your son needs to gain some perspective.</p>
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<p>Actually, it’s a girl and I doubt she’s ever watched any law-related TV shows :-). She absolutely loves problem solving (any video game, even complex ones, is a week at most for her), has a photographic memory, is a bookworm, bilingual, very athletic, and can write at a level that would put many college students to shame. She’s interested in an investigative type career, Quantico, the whole 9 yards. That, or Congressional staffer type position. Her aspiration right now is more undergrad in Econ/PolSci and then Law School, B-grade probably (but she’s smart enough to get into the top 20 if she works hard at it).</p>
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<p>Sounds like my D. She is now enrolled as a Political Economy major at Tulane where they have a 3+3 undegrad/law program. She will spend junior year at Cambridge Univ. She is interested in international business.</p>
<p>Cbug, thanks I’ll check into that!</p>
<p>A JD is a tremendous asset for a great many career paths. </p>
<p>Ironically, law practitioner is not one of them.</p>