Law School Horror Stories

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<p>I doubt that the notion of non-elite law schools engaging in fraud applies to people such as Alice Lingo who, frankly, it’s hard to feel that much sympathy. As the article itself pointed out:</p>

<p>*Just over a year ago, Lingo says she was earning $160,000 a year as a litigator at a white-shoe law firm when she was laid off because of the economic downturn. *</p>

<p>Read more: [Jobless</a> lawyer has tough time finding new gig, so she’s offering to clean homes … even toilets!](<a href=“http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/09/10/2010-09-10_jobless_lawyer_misses_babysitting_job_offers_to_do_housekeeping_one_more_attorne.html#ixzz10kS8nZPJ]Jobless”>http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/09/10/2010-09-10_jobless_lawyer_misses_babysitting_job_offers_to_do_housekeeping_one_more_attorne.html#ixzz10kS8nZPJ) </p>

<p>To be sure, NYC is an expensive city, and Lingo most likely is carrying a large amount of law school debt. But still…most people, even those in NYC, can only dream of a job paying $160k a year, even if it meant losing that job and having to clean houses the following year.</p>

<p>Sakky: Don’t forget tax rates. Would have been far better for Lingo to make $61K for each of four years than $160K with three years of $25K.</p>

<p>I hire for BigLaw and I can tell you that going to a top-14 school is not a guarantee of a good job. You’ve got to bring a stellar transcript to the table and interview well. It’s tough, even in top firms, for students outside of the tippy-top ranks of the tippy-top schools. We may not be outsourcing to India, but most firms are outsourcing to our basements or warehouses in Jersey to have temp attorneys do the grunt work first year associates used to to do for $20 an hour. If you’re not going to be a superstar among superstars or can’t afford to pay cash for law school, it might be a good idea to wait a while. I have noticed, anecdotally, that among those tippy-top students, older people with previous experience or other degrees have been among the most successful.</p>

<p>For what it’s worth, many biglaw regional offices, mid-size and smaller firms, are interviewing at my kid’s non-T14 school. My kid did well and has a good resume, but is not in the top of his 2L class. He has been getting picked for interviews (including a biglaw interview, which surprised the heck out of him). </p>

<p>Of course, an interview is not an offer. As far as he’s been able to tell, many of the firms interview huge numbers of candidates for a handful of openings. (Time to light a candle, cross fingers, wish on a star, etc.) </p>

<p>My kid’s contact person within the placement office told him that more firms have been in touch with the placement office than in the last few years. While the school is seeing a significant increase in hiring this year, she said it’s still not at pre-recession levels.</p>

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<p>But she didn’t make a high salary for just one year - or at least, it’s highly unlikely. While the article didn’t specifically say so, it seems to me that she was hired at a top law firm right out of law school. I rather doubt that she was cleaning toilets for 2 years out of law school, then got a top law job for 1 year, and is now back to cleaning toilets. {Honestly, if you were cleaning toilets for two years out of law school, would any law firm then hire you for $160k a year?} Hence, she was making $160k (or close to it) for 3 years, only to now perhaps make $25k this year.</p>

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<p>Well, the problem with that advice is that law school represents a 3-year lag period. It’s not as if I can wait for the economy to improve, and then decide to enter law school to immediately take advantage of the improved economy. I would graduate 3 years later and have to deal with whatever the economic conditions happen to be at that time. Obviously nobody knows what they’ll be, but I doubt that these economic conditions will persist for another 3 years. </p>

<p>In fact, I might argue that a strong economy might actually be the worst time to enter law school, for if you do that, then by the time you graduate, the economy may have cycled back to a recession again. In fact, that is precisely what is happening to the graduates coming out today: they entered law school in 2007 when the economy was hot.</p>

<p>Furthermore, let’s face it, right now there aren’t exactly a plethora of great jobs available to people fresh out of undergrad. From an opportunity cost standpoint, you’re not exactly giving up much by choosing to enter law school now. In 2007, a liberal arts major could have probably garnered a quite decent corporate job. But probably not now. What else is he going to do? </p>

<p>Hence, it is entirely rational for people to enter law school now. They’re not giving up much and in 3 years, the economy is likely to improve. Those people who are getting screwed are precisely those who entered law school when the economy was strong.</p>

<p>The legal market will never turn around. The market can’t support 40,000 new lawyers every year.</p>

<p>Well, sure it could. The market for labor for attorneys has no natural limit: you could always just have more people suing each other. True, most of those lawsuits will not succeed, but the lawyers don’t really care, as it’s more work for them.</p>

<p>Nope,</p>

<p>grab your guns,</p>

<p>2012! The Apocalypse is nigh! No more jobs!</p>

<p>If we are truly still in the deep financial straits in 2-3 years that we are in now, then I think we will have greater problems to worry about than whether law school grads can find jobs. It is precisely those sorts of long-term economic problems that engenders political strife and social breakdown, such as what happened during the 1930’s. We know how that story ended.</p>

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<p>Why don’t you just kill yourself, right? An ordinary middle class life of minding your own business is a worthless life, eh? </p>

<p>Oh please.</p>

<p>Since lawyers are well on their way to becoming the nation’s largest demographic group, in a few years they can just vote themselves government subsidies.</p>

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It’s not all about the economy. There is a larger restructuring going on now in the legal community.</p>

<p>Cheap humor aside, a law degree is useful for occupations other than legal practice.</p>

<p>Hit the tax law hard and add some accounting on the side or in undergrad.</p>

<p>You can make a lot of money at many different endevours if you exhibit the work ethic, intellectual brilliance, and sheer endurance demanded of young associates by “Big Law”.</p>

<p>And the best argument for the “elite schools” of anything; It helps to have friends who can finance an enterprise.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, colleges confer lots of degrees that don’t come with warning labels about employment prospects. If a student goes to college for the joy of intellectual exploration and socializing, great, follow a passion. But lots of students head off to college (or grad school, professional school, etc.) and take on substantial debt assuming they will be able to find a job in their field. The reality is that some areas of study offer meager prospects, and within those fields the employability of grads from different schools can vary a lot.</p>

<p>Researching employment prospects by both degree and school is critical (if employment is an important goal). I hope discussions like this encourage more students to do some serious due diligence before signing up for big loans!</p>

<p>One caution, of course, is the cyclical nature of hiring in specific fields - a degree that’s hot right now may not be nearly as attractive four years later.</p>

<p>There is a simple message - don’t go deep into debt to attend a mediocre law school.</p>

<p>There are far too many law schools in the US, many of which have no prestige and which do not provide wide job opportunities.</p>

<p>These articles don’t discuss one of the biggest issues - law schools that graduate many people who are unable to pass the bar. The percentage of grads who do pass the bar is available on the web for each law school. Those charts also often compare the pass rate to the difficulty of the bar exam in that particular state (they vary greatly). </p>

<p>The grads of the top law schools are still earning nice starting salaries, at least in Philadelphia according to a recent study in the Phil. Inquirer. </p>

<p>It is not hard to find attorneys who wished that they never went to law school.</p>

<p>“The legal market will never turn around. The market can’t support 40,000 new lawyers every year.”</p>

<p>Sadly, the number is closer to 45,000.</p>

<p>US society is training about a thousand (~900) lawyers per state per year?</p>

<p>As opposed to 380 physicians per state per year…</p>

<p>Yes, it is, and we keep opening more law schools. It’s madness.</p>

<p>the numbers of law collage is getting day by day but we didn’t think where is justices?if there is justices so the number of criminals were high and collages were low…</p>