<p>^^^^^^^^</p>
<p>I can’t even begin to comprehend what you are trying to say. English please.</p>
<p>My dad is a partner at major law firm and he does a fair amount of work with getting interns and hiring junior associates from law schools in the state (Virginia), and he told me that they really only look at graduates from UVA, W&M, and Washington and Lee. Occasionally the top of the class of U of R.</p>
<p>It seems to me that in order to be worth anything your law degree has to be from a really good school.</p>
<p>“It seems to me that in order to be worth anything your law degree has to be from a really good school.”</p>
<p>Are you sure about that? Because none of the schools you mentioned are in the T14, hence they are not “really good.” It seems to me the only way it is worth it to go to law school is to have connections, like, oh I don’t know, having a father who is a partner at a major law firm.</p>
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<p>UVA is a T14 School</p>
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<p>That’s true, but there have also been a few fundamental changes.</p>
<p>First, and most importantly, law school tuition has skyrocketed, even adjusting for inflation. Possibly it has doubled in real dollars since you went to law school.</p>
<p>Second, it is far harder to have student loans discharged in bankruptcy than when you went. When you went to law school, private loans could be discharged like any other loan. Government loans could be discharged if they were in default for 7 years even without a showing of hardship. Nowadays, all student loans are almost impossible to get rid of in bankruptcy.</p>
<p>Third, attorney salaries have stagnated with the exception of salaries for the most elite. Even among the elites, the high salaries are a bit deceptive because taxes eat up a lot of that extra money. </p>
<p>The upshot of all this is that even when the economy comes back (and I’m pretty confident it will come back), law school will be a much worse deal than it was in the past.</p>
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<p>I think you are overstating how major the law firm is. A major law firm doesn’t really recruit only at UVA, W&M, and W&L.</p>
<p>The advantage to the older entrants to law school is that their previous experience may be relevant to future hires. Also, if you are not able to enter a top tier law school, try to imagine how you might differentiate yourself. For example, foreign languages or experiences in your college years may set you apart from other candidates. The practice of law is becoming ever more international. Law firms are now merging across the Atlantic. If you are looking for people to move across offices, an internationally effective top ranked candidate from a second tier may in some cases be more attractive than a standard first tier law student. Ask yourself, do I have something I can sell apart from my degree?</p>
<p>"A major law firm doesn’t really recruit only at UVA, W&M, and W&L. "</p>
<p>The Richmond office of a major law firm might well do just that.</p>
<p>How many major law firms have a Richmond office? I think the firm the poster is talking about is this one, which isn’t really “major”: [url=<a href=“Leclairryan.com”>http://www.leclairryan.com/]LeClairRyan[/url</a>] At the very least, it’s certainly not accurate to imply that major law firms hire exclusively from a couple of local schools.</p>
<p>More large firms with Richmond offices: Troutman Sanders, Hunton & Williams, Williams Mullen, McGuire Woods, Jackson Lewis.</p>
<p>This are all big law firms, sure, but they’re not “major.” </p>
<p>I guess I’m being a little picky here. It’s just that no one cares about those firms.</p>
<p>Having worked at an actual big elite firm in D.C., the “lowest” school we hired from was Georgetown…no W&Ls and no UofRs. We hired a couple of UVAs, but you can compare it with the other two schools. The partners at my firm, for some reason, really seem to like UVA and Chicago grads.</p>
<p>Also, I think it is fair to say that a law firm also principally recruits where its efforts will be best rewarded. For example, if it is difficult to deal with the recruiting office at a certain school, this may drop out. If they have never been able to attract a lawyer from a certain school, they may give up recruiting there as recruiting has costs. Not only the outlay of expenses, but also lawyer time. As for the Richmond office, those may be the most appropriate schools for that firm in that market.</p>
<p>In keeping with the original spirit of the thread, I’m an undergrad and I recently found fistfuls of violently extracted pages from Peter Strauss’ Legal Methods text in a spot between Jerome Greene Library and Wein dormitory at Columbia. </p>
<p>Now, this could be the result of any number of things. But, it made me think back to an anecdote my AP European History teacher told us about being in law school in the 60s. Apparently, when certain unpopular members of their 1L class would leave their books unattended, certain other members would rip pages out that happened to correspond to future reading assignments.</p>
<p>Considering I’m pretty sure Legal Methods is pass/fail, and there are probably plenty of copies of the book on reserve in the library, that probably wouldn’t be a very effective way to sabotage someone.</p>
<p>Supply creates its own demand.</p>
<p>Yes, but via a lowering of the price to levels that may be unsustainable in the long run.</p>
<p>Here is a sobering blog from someone who studied law. Although it might be a bit more melodramatic than it should be, there is some truth to it.
<em>+</em>____________________________________________________________________</p>
<p>Frank the Underemployed Professional
If you are thinking about going to law school or you know someone who is thinking about going to law school, you need to seriously investigate the reality of the legal profession.</p>
<p>I have calculated that only 53.8% of all lawyers produced over the past 40 years work in the legal profession. Also, it is very plausible to calculate that less than 30% of all law school graduates produced over the past 10 years were able to find work in the legal profession. Also, the law schools have been pumping out enough new attorneys over the past 40 years such that the average number of new attorneys produced each year is enough to support having 1 attorney for every 172 people.</p>
<p>This is a heavily glutted, miserable profession, and going to law school could destroy your life permanently by saddling you with $120,000-185,000 of student loan debt that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. Even if you do find a job, a great many lawyers earn low incomes and you will find yourself working long, hard hours in a cutthroat, Machiavellian environment under great pressure.</p>
<p>Do your research before you saddle yourself with huge amounts of student loan debt and waste three years of your life. Visit the law school scambusting blogs:</p>
<p>OK. I’ll be the foil to his negative analysis. First of all, I do agree with taxguy that no one should be taking on six figure debt for graduate school. Period. </p>
<p>Now, as for his statistics, I am one of the approximately 47% of lawyers who no longer practice law. Why? I made enough money after 21 years of practice that I was able to retire and wanted to spend more time with my relatively young children. I loved working with really smart people and not worrying about who bought the pencils. I loved being able to pick up the phone and call a leading expert in any field I needed. I loved working on cutting edge deals. Yes, i was in Big Law and I loved most of it. Yes, it is incredibly competitive. Yes, you work really hard, but you are also rewarded.</p>
<p>The advice I gave my niece 15 years ago still stands. If you are not in the top 15% to 25% of your class (depending on the school) by the end of your first year, you should probably pack it in and find another line of work. You should attend a T14 school or the best regional school in your area. Most of the others are just making money off you. (Shame on the ABA for accrediting many of these new law schools!) That way, you have only invested one year of your life and not incurred nearly as much student debt, if any.</p>
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<p>It seems to me that your advice is a bit contradictory. Believe it or not, tuition and fees at Columbia Law School is now 52k a year. You could easily spend an additional 15k a year on room, board, and books. Also you need to take into account that tuition will surely increase over the next couple years and the juice will flow on your loans during your 3 years in school. So you could easily graduate with 200k in non-dischargeable debt.</p>
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<p>That’s wonderful, but I would guess that your situation is not representative. I would guess most people who leave the practice of law do so because they aren’t successful enough. Or they are miserable. Or both.</p>
<p>Anyway, things have changed over the last 20 years. Law school tuition has probably doubled in real dollars. (Actually it’s probably more than that when you factor in the effect of taxes and work during law school.) Student loan debt has become non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. Law firms have increased billing quotas. Salaries outside of BIGLAW have stagnated. </p>
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<p>I think that makes a certain amount of sense, but the advice I would give is a bit different. I would say go to the best school which accepts you with a bona fide full ride scholarship.</p>