<p>Just some thoughts about leadership- if a person is president of a school club, how many more leadership positions should one try to attain to be competitive for admission?</p>
<p>Numerous acceptees told me that for most competitive colleges and especially for the Service Academies, leadership positions have much much greater weight than being in numerous clubs just as a member. Numbers do not really matter but as long as you hold leadership positions even in few clubs, particularly sports, you are one step ahead of people who are enrolled just as club members.</p>
<p>I think it depends on whether there are other indicia of leadership. Leadership is an intangible quality akin to pornography: You know it when you see it.
Being elected President of a club is one indicator. Only one.
Leaders usually are recognized as such by others: [1] peer-selected to lead certain event even though not elected to be President; [2] appointments by adults to leadership positions such as Boy's State; [3] athletic appointments such as Captain. Furthermore, leaders also exhibit the ability to complete tasks, e.g. Eagle Scouts. More importantly, leaders exhibit the ability to get others to follow and to complete tasks.</p>
<p>You are competing with persons that on the "whole" exhibit leadership in many different ways. Thus, a true leader may not be the President of anything [althought they usually are] but, otherwise, are capable of "leading."</p>
<p>Do your best.</p>
<p>I believe that the Naval Academy and other elite universities are looking for candidates that have demonstrated leadership in a variety of ways throughout high school, e.g., sports, community service, student government, and religious activities. Often, well-rounded students with respectable test scores and high GPAs trump students with 4.5 GPAs and 1500+ (old SATs) test scores on college acceptances. Its been said before, but colleges really are looking for well-rounded students. </p>
<p>P.S. Bill, do you think USNA uses pornography" as an analogy for leadership?</p>
<p>That was the most interesting analogy I've seen in a while.</p>
<p>It is always difficult to "hear" the context in which you make a statement. Are you making a joke or are you serious?</p>
<p>No, I don't think the USNA uses pornography as an analogy for leadership; nor did I intend to use it as an analgoy. The haste of internet postings sometimes leads to words being left out.</p>
<p>The statement should have read: Leadership is an intangible quality [dififcult to define] akin to [defining] pornography.</p>
<p>Thus, the statement was intended as an example of the difficulties in defining leadership.</p>
<p>Evaluating leadership is as difficult as defining whether a performance is pornographic. United States Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart, when faced with determing whether a movie was Pornography, farmously said, in a concurring opinon: "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that." Jacobellis v. Ohio.</p>
<p>My youngster did not have any "president" or "captain" roles to state on his application. He achieved captain status in the spring of his senior year, after his appointment had been issued. He did have other leadership roles not defined by the titles of president or captain: Eagle Scout, various positions within scouting, Boys' State, and city council member at Boys' State, athletics for his entire high school career, committment to various community service projects.</p>
<p>My point is not to parade my child's accomplishments, but to give hope to those applicants who were never elected president or captain. Leadership is demonstrated in many other ways.
CM</p>
<p>I was thinking about Boys State the other day. My son was also Boys State, elected as a state senator. It is a great program that added significant depth to my son's resume.
While I don't think any single item will make the decision, it is a combination of things.
As said in other postings, my son was not an athlete. He did have a "Presidents" title but, I think more importantly, he had a record of consistent achievement in whatever it was that he was involved with. In addition, he was selected--both peer-selected and adult-selected--for a number of different positions.</p>
<p>If you are in your senior year, it is probably difficult to add much to your resume that will make a difference.
If you are in your jurnior year, you probably already have some achievements to tout. Have you sough or obtained appointments that your state representative/senator can make? Because we are in Texas, there is a state program wherein state senator appoints students to a NASA program for example.
Can you get a job with your state legislature or local government as a paige or similar assistant? Local government? These positions are typically selective.
Have you ever organized a project of some sort? Charitable or community-based project that mobilized numerous persons towards a common goal. </p>
<p>Regardless of title, have you ever motivated others to act?
Lead: To show others the way; to advance. Leadership is not represented by titles [I have known many "Presidents" that could not lead], leadership is represented by the way one conducts themself. Its a way of life.</p>
<p>This is an interesting thread: (to paraphrase) original question appears to ask what activities and roles should be pursued in order to build a competitive "resume" for Academy admission. The assumption behind this questions is that one can set out to accumulate the right number or type of "line items" on the resume needed to meet the criteria of "leadership".</p>
<p>I would like to challenge this group to think a bit differently about what leadership potential means. Gathering titles (president, captain, etc.) may, on paper, look like leadership. But as has been said many times on this board, the greatest challenge isn't just getting into the Academy, it is surviving and thriving there. Titles on a resume do not provide the tool set needed to become a successful military leader. </p>
<p>I would suggest that the majority of successful midshipmen did not enter the Academy with leadership titles that they sought for the purpose of building a resume -- they were drawn to the Academy because it was in their nature to seek out leadership opportunities, because they reflected on how best to motivate and support their peers (whether in athletics, student government or community service) and put into practice on a regular basis the lessons they learned. In short, they entered the Academy with leadership potential because they had an internal drive not only for personal success, but for the success of every team (and every team member) that they encountered. This drive led them to seek the roles where they could best ensure the success of the endeavor and therefore they had the titles and activities on their resume.</p>
<p>I am not suggesting that leaders are born, not made -- but I am suggesting that leadership aptitude is a variable that emerges in very young adulthood, is evident in the choices that a person makes in his or her teenage years, and is what the Academy is looking for. The primary goal of the 4 years in Annapolis is to take that aptitude and train it into true leader capability. Thus leaders are "made", but are made are from those with evident potential.</p>
<p>Any high school student who asks "what do I need to add to my resume to assure that I am competitive for the Academy" might do well to stop asking others and start asking him/herself: "what have I done up until today that demonstrates that I have an internal drive to assure the success of every group I am a part of?" If the answer is "Nothing, yet" then the next question isn't "What leadership job should I apply for to make my resume better?" but rather "What has stopped me from taking on the challenge of leadership?" </p>
<p>I don't believe that those entrusted with building the leadership skills of midshipmen would agree that it is an intangible that cannot be defined but only recognized when experienced. In 1995 John H. Dalton, Secretary of the Navy delivered a speech at the USNA graduation entitled "The Timeless Traits of Leadership". He said:</p>
<p>"These traits have stood the test of time. The list is as follows: A leader is trusted, a leader takes the initiative, a leader uses good judgment, a leader speaks with authority, a leader strengthens others, is optimistic and enthusiastic, never compromises absolutes, and leads by example."</p>
<p>The speech continued to tell the stories of USNA graduates who had demonstrated these leadership skills in situations of both success and defeat. </p>
<p>I recommend that candidates and parents of candidates read "Becoming a Leader the Annapolis Way" by Johnson and Harper. The book is written for a civilian audience (primarily business executives) but provides an excellent definition of the characteristics of leadership valued by the U.S. military.</p>
<p>Quick threadjack: How come Bill can lead a discussion on pornography but Jamzmom can't post the name of her local Universities mascot? What's up with that?</p>
<p>(Just kidding Bill, I actually got what you were laying down even before the good clarifying explanation.)</p>
<p>oiixg, I agree in principle with what you've posted but feel that it is a little too much "perfect world." In a perfect world all Naval Academy Appointments would go to people who had natural leadership apptitude even before they'd ever experienced leadership. In the real world I believe a lot of the appointments go to people just like CCR712, who have to ask "is this enough leadership experience?" And a lot of those cadets are successful at the end of their USNA tenure.</p>
<p>I think you're completely right when you say leadership is easy to define. It's leadership potential which, like pornography, is more difficult to define.</p>
<p>And to just throw another iron into the fire, how about the young adult who is a good leader, organized, can motivate others but is not in the "popular group?" Sometimes it's difficult for this person to show their leadership skills, especially if they are involved in 4 or 5 activities where leadership positions are determined by popularity. My daughter is in X-country/track and Marching Band and the "Captains" tend to be do nothings that were chosen by their peers. She has lead from the back row in some situations. Luckily she's also in Civil Air Patrol, where you are rewarded for your experience, motivation and aptitude.</p>
<p>And on a note to CCR712, I would say being President of one school club might not be enough if you can't show any other activities. I would go back and read oiixg's 5th paragraph on determining for yourself if you have shown leadership potential.</p>
<p>And a final note to those who still have enough time, the extracurricular activities which parallel the military, Civil Air Patrol, Sea Scouts, Boy and Girl Scouts etc. are good because they teach leadership and let you put that leadership into practice. They're also fun, which means you'll do better because you're not just doing it to fill in a resume.</p>
<p>. . . by the way one conducts himself. [rather than themself.]</p>
<p>Is pornography a pornographic word?</p>
<p>Cougar: Very good points -- leadership aptitude is harder to identify than leadership itself. As your example shows, leadership titles often wind up confered on those who do not deserve them (e.g. the "popular" kid who gets elected captain but does not really lead the team). </p>
<p>This is why I would encourage an applicant not to think in terms of titles to seek, but opportunities to genuinely lead -- with or without a title. This requires the willingness to take risk. Fear of failure is, unfortunately, the primary reason that people avoid leadership. Ironically, it is only those who are willing to risk failure who can learn the true lessons of leadership. </p>
<p>My kid's essay for the Academy described the experience of being on a losing team in high school and the lessons learned about commitment, motivation and the intrinsic reward of supporting one's teammates in achieving their best regardless of the extrinsic rewards of trophies and championships. I like to believe this was evidence of leadership potential!</p>
<p>. . . opportunities to lead, with or without titles.</p>
<p>I agree with oiigg, this is a vital trait that USNA is looking for: How has this young person taken his/her successes or failures and built upon them to become a leader. My son's essay included what he learned from failure: his attempt to organize students during the tenth grade into a mock government and what he learned about others as well as himself from that experience. Of course, he had other opportunities to lead and, in his recommendations, others recognized his ability to lead others.</p>
<p>It all folds together to create a picture for the academy. It is not that one applicant had three leadership posts compared to another that only had one. The President of a Latin Club that is able to articulate how under his/her leadership the members of that club came together to accomplish a task may be considered more of a leader than those that have multiple athletic titles to their name.</p>
<p>Oiigg hits it square on the head. Based on my exposure to midshipmen, I don't think most did what they did for the purpose of being accepted to USNA. Most accomplished whatever it is that they accomplished for their own internal purposes:because they were internally motivated to succeed, because it made them feel good, because they enjoyed it, etc. Acceptance to the academy was just the culmination to a very successful 12 years of schooling.</p>
<p>For C_62 then, the question becomes in part: How is your daughter is leading from the back row or what she has learned from this experience? Combined with other examples of leadership [CAP, etc.], the picture becomes complete.</p>
<p>Wow guys! Great discussion! Cougar, I have to say this because you've dangled that carrot of temptation in front of my nose. Found a way around it. Just spell it differently GO GAMECOX! See?! ;)</p>
<p>I would love to be a fly on the wall at an academy admissions session at this time of year. Then I would come back and report my findings to ya'll. We've talked a great deal about this subject here and it seems to be one of those great mysteries that keep us questioning what they are truly looking for. To advise the new applicants coming up this year, wouldn't it be a safe assumption to say that it is their record of consistent achievement that will play a role in getting you looked at along with the quality of those achievements? Becoming President of your school's Save a Slug club (example people, so no slug lover attack mode is called for) and showing up for two meetings during the year would probably hinder not help. I've seen a few kids joining so many activities just to get it on their resume that it left them with only 15 minutes a week to dedicate to each activity. I have to personally wonder, what is learned from that? Perhaps find your passions and go from there. Two or three things that you know you can kick butt doing. That internal drive that oiixxg speaks of isn't just to complete the processes of the application either. Oiixxg speaks of bigger things. I'm hearin' a lot of complain' about paper work and did from my son as well at times...But, remember...Its a very very small part of it. They really could be looking for kids who have a "stick to it" attitude so that they get kids who will make it through the four tough years of education that they are offering. Its not all about having 14 President titles of the blah blah clubs. Its how you have led that club/s to it's successes & it's goals. Balancing loads of leadership roles, school & work loads, sports & community service shows you can bulldog your goal to be a competent academy student and to learn the tools to become a stronger leader. I wish I knew for certain what things stood out on my son's application so I could put it out there. Leadership was surely one as he left his mark in a big way in what he did. All I can say to CCR712 is to find an organization that you can dedicate time to and make a difference in. Remain realistic with what you're able to do. For instance, if you have an hour after school left in your busy day, you could go to the local library and set up a tutoring club for maybe middle school children if you're questioning for something to do. Just an idea...... There are tons of things out there. Seek & ye shall find kid! Good luck. I've so enjoyed reading everyone's comments here. And especially that pornographic issue... YAY! GO COX!</p>
<p>Jamzmom. I'm kind of confused. When I read your posts they now say GO COASTIES! Was that your intention? I don't think Jamz is going to like that, but Boss might.</p>
<p>She's practicin' for when Jamz signs up with the CG after graduation.</p>
<p>Bill, your question and some of the leadership talk above came at an interesting time. My daughter came home with an interesting story last night. She's been disgusted with her band section leaders for the last two years. She feels that her section has performed poorly and hasn't really been a team because the leaders are picked, the most popular Senior, and then they do nothing. Last night this came to a head. The Cat said to the section, "We suck, we're constantly getting chewed out for being the worst section in the band and I'm sick of it!" She got the section to agree to have sectional practices above and beyond the usual practice, scheduled them and got everyone's buy in. She said when she was done she felt everyone was more motivated and was excited about trying to improve and get out of the doghouse. I gave her a big atta-boy (girl) and told her this type of thing might be a good topic for an essay.</p>
<p>now,now, lets not be picking on jamzmom....and the coasties would be dXXX lucky to get Jamz away from the USMMA! Nah, he's navy-bound for sure (unless, of course, he lands one of those harbor-pilot jobs in the big apple! :) )</p>
<p>Perhaps our son's story of "leadership" would add a little dimension to this discussion. </p>
<p>From his 6th grade year he had been practicing swimming for at least 2 hours per day, and usually 4 hours per day. As he entered high school, he began having required practices from 5-7, followed by school days in which he took the most challenging course of study, followed by practice from 3-5 and hours of homework. He never took part in student council or debate team because he was very focused on swimming. He didn't participate in other sports (beyond 2 half-hearted attempts at track when he was too injured to swim). We would occasionally nag him about his lack of student council participation, and he would reply that he didn't want to do something that he couldn't do well or put the requisite time into. </p>
<p>He was nominated to go to Boys State, but didn't apply for the same reason. It was the same week as a statewide meet. He also choose not to participate in an AP Biology project competition at the local college, though he had an excellent presentation and had put a huge amount of time into the study, because his team had a chance to set a state record in a relay at another statewide meet the same weekend. He consistently made some very hard choices.</p>
<p>He was chosen during his Junior year to be one of the statewide swimmer representatives and attended the US Swimming conference in California in Sept of his Senior year. There they were involved in setting regulations for the national swimming body, had to negotiate with coaches, the National Board, etc. His dad and I knew this was important, but didn't really connect A and B and were still somewhat concerned with the lack of student council or president roles. When the BGO asked him about the lack of student council, Boys State and president roles, our son explained to him his belief that he couldn't do justice to the job. He had not yet made captain of the swim team at the time of the interview, so didn't even have that to report as leadership. </p>
<p>Later, when the BGO was leaving, they began talking about travelling and all the places our son had been when they started talking about Southern California and the BGO asked why he had gone there. Turns out the BGO was very impressed by the "real world" leadership of the conference. It was something that was so totally an extension of our son's experience with swimming that we had all taken it for granted. </p>
<p>I guess the point is, as others have pointed out, to do what is relevant and important to you. Don't try to fill in the boxes, don't do it just to look good, but do what is right and what you enjoy and that will evolve into leadership in a much less contrived and much more meaningful way. </p>
<p>Funny, writing this I can see how all of these isolated events, strung together, do show leadership. When you are right up on it, though, it is sometimes harder to see. It is just your kid, doing what your kid does. Yep, we have some extraordinary kids.</p>
<p>momof1- you make a very good point about finding a passion and following it- wether its sports or clubs or student government- the key I belive is committing to something-and the process is so much easier when it is something you actually enjoy doing! The kids don't always see the connection- your story makes that clear-but the BGO's are highly trained to ferrit it out- in our case, our torpedo was very quiet about his accomplishments- (unlike his parents I'm afraid!)---but the BGO kept at him and the more he got to know him, the more that came to the surface.....comes back to what I have said in the past....the academies know exactly what they are looking for- if you have it, they will find it....it is just so important for the kids to be who they are through this whole process</p>