Leaving an Academy

Colleges & Universities A-Z Service Academy Parents
1

<p>Academies seem to have 3 varieties of departures - those that drop out their plebe year (for so many reasons - I am not talking about the idiots who show up and are surprised that it is so "military."), those that just can't make it academically (2nd or possibly 3rd year) and those that get kicked out for stupid actions (even in final year). What do the students then do? </p>

<p>I assume they transfer to another school with whatever credits they have. These are all bright kids with great HS grades and SATs, but we have seen or heard of many kids packing up. Anyone have insight here? Where do the good (but not good enough) kids go and how do they and their parents take it?</p>

2

<p>If they are in the 2 degree yr (JR) or higher, then they are required to serve in the military as an enlisted person. </p>

<p>Unless they have done something criminal, then they go to military/civilian jail.</p>

<p>Before your Jr yr. you go as a transfer student based on the grades you received at the academy you attended. Even if you flunk out those grades go with you. </p>

<p>My D is at UAz, she has a friend who is an ex-cadet he left for medical reasons. He just became a transfer student.</p>

3

<p>Depending on when the cadet/midshipmen choses to leave (mid-semster), the only immediate option may be a community or junior college.
Remember, not all service academy courses have a companion course, or similar majors when compared to civilian colleges. Therefore not all credits are transferrable.</p>

<p>Other things to consider:
1. Your Academy GPA is a college GPA and will follow you (yes, the Academy is much more strenous...but to a civilian college a 1.67 is a 1.67)
2. Many colleges/universities require a 2.0 GPA to be considered as a transfer student. If your Academy GPA is lower than a 2.0 you may have to defend your grades to the civilian college or repeat courses at a junior/community college before applying.
2. Even if you transfer after your 3/c year, you may not be deemed an "incoming" Junior at a civilian college (you may have to do some catching up for your intended major)
3. You will be considered a "transfer" student and therefore may not be granted the same opportunities as incoming freshmen are given (housing, course selection, etc.)</p>

<p>We have heard that some cadets/midshipmen begin the application process while still at an Academy. They know that they want something different and prepare for the future (keeping up their grades, etc). </p>

<p>I know two prior cadets, one who found out they were not eligible for pilot training, the other wanted to pursue a specifc major; both left the Academy and went on to receive ROTC scholarships. They still desired to serve in the military, but didn't want to continue via the Academy route (both are successful officers).</p>

4

<p>cadetmom,
I'm amazed that anyone who chooses to leave a service academy could go on to get an ROTC scholarship. Is this branch specific, e.g., AFROTC? I was under the impression that if a cadet/mid quit their respective service academy, an ROTC scholarship would be out of the question. Getting an ROTC scholarship after leaving a service academy must be quite rare.</p>

5

<p>Perhaps not, Mom. I have a classmate of mine who got tossed Youngster year who went on to finish his college under NROTC and became an officer. I suspect it may not be as rare as you might think, simply because USNA is well-known for being a bear academically.</p>

<p>Another classmate of mine (my roomate 1st semester Youngster year) also got ac-boarded that semester. He ended up going to Georgetown and getting a 3.5 GPA. I think that says a lot.</p>

<p>So, there may be a very real "market" for ROTC scholarships for former USNA mids. Don't know how many, but I would think that leaving USNA wouldn't be an automatic disqualifier. </p>

<p>As for the other "types" of separations, I think the majority of cases have already been addressed.</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
I know two prior cadets, one who found out they were not eligible for pilot training, the other wanted to pursue a specifc major; both left the Academy and went on to receive ROTC scholarships. They still desired to serve in the military, but didn't want to continue via the Academy route (both are successful officers).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm curious. Did the first guy get to fly coming out of ROTC?</p>

7

<p>I would think that a lot of the classes would not transfer and you would be down a lot of credits. And if you crashed in chemistry or whatever, and you have a 1.67 GPA, you may only have community college options - and then transfer again to a 4 yr. college. What a mess for "smart" kids.</p>

8

<p>Zaphod,
No, he wasn't medically qualified to fly (he was USAFA and his eye's went bad during his 4/c year). Instead, he took off a semester, chose a very competitive college, was granted a full AFROTC scholarship, majored in MechEng, and then went on to receive his Master's in AeroEng.
The other guy wanted Biomedical Engineering, received a full NROTC scholarship was commissioned, and after his first sea tour was picked up for the Uniform School of Health Sciences and is now a Navy doc who specializes in artificial limbs.
Like I said, both are very successful military officers who took another road in life to fulfill a similar dream!</p>

<p>My motto in life: Never accept that anything is impossible!</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
Instead, he took off a semester, chose a very competitive college, was granted a full AFROTC scholarship, majored in MechEng, and then went on to receive his Master's in AeroEng.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Gosh! Why would he do that? Why not stay at USAFA and finish MechE?</p>

<p>Wow.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The other guy wanted Biomedical Engineering, received a full NROTC scholarship was commissioned, and after his first sea tour was picked up for the Uniform School of Health Sciences and is now a Navy doc who specializes in artificial limbs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>OUTSTANDING!</p>

<p>Now THAT is a reason I can understand! Good for him! :)</p>

10

<p>He didn't want to put up with all the Academy stuff...for a MechE degree. He saw USAFA as his best chance to get into flight school. When that choice went away he lost that loving feeling :)</p>

11

<p>Ah. Makes sense.</p>

<p>Sort of. :confused:</p>

12

<p>With so many kids that do part ways with academies, I've often wondered about that question as well. Since I'm such a 'newb', I haven't much to add except one story of a USMMA Plebe dropping last September. He left and went to Purdue with full ROTC scholarship. I didn't know the family personally, but was just told that & I wondered how he did it as classes had already begun at Purdue and the housing had to be full up already. I know my heart broke for a few of the kids that wanted to stay but the academics just over powered them. Trust me, I knock wood for every day that my kid makes it. I haven't got a clue what we would do otherwise.</p>

13

<p>Our son flew to NY today to sign his resignation papers for the USMMA.(class of '08) He did start his application process during his last term at USMMA. I will say, that the registrar was much quicker at responding to transcripts while he was a student there, than afterwards! We are still waiting for a transcript asked for on March 25th! The scholarships he turned down two years ago were only for incoming freshman, so he will be going to an instate college. The majority of his credits have transferred, but that would depend on required classes for the new field of study. All the English, chemistry, physics, engineering graphics, intro to ME, and math transferred. That's not too bad. He plans on taking two summer school classes and will be a 'junior' although probably take another 2 1/2 years to graduate.<br>
As for how we as parents are coping--I pretty much explained that on the USMMA in the "sevice Obligation" thread. You have to trust your kid and eventually let them live their own lives. It was hard when he was a high school senior, because he wasn't pro-active about his college choice. I think to go to a military academy, even if qualified, it works best if the cadet is leading the charge, rather than taking the path of least resistance. We're all having to do more adjusting than we thought originally, but the this time spent as 'family' is an unexpected bonus.</p>

14

<p>5 Family,</p>

<p>Our thoughts are with you and I know that your son's future will be bright and wonderful despite, or maybe because of, the speed bump. It takes a lot of guts to say that it's not the right fit. Here is a link to a collection of letters written by those who left USMA, and while it may not be applicable to you or your situation, perhaps you will find one of the stories which will resonate with you, or perhaps it will be of use to some parent or cadet/midshipman out there. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.west-point.org/parent/plebe-net/quitting.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.west-point.org/parent/plebe-net/quitting.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I know yours was not a plebe, and so had plenty of time to size up the situation. As an adult, I'm sure he made the best choice for his own future. Good luck to your family and enjoy the time together.</p>

15

<p>Wow. There is some SERIOUSLY good insight on that page!</p>

16

<p>It always makes me well up. The depth of feeling these people exhibit is really remarkable. I also think that it is remarkable that the request went out through the WP Alumni association and so many former West Pointers responded. Just goes to show the bond that continues even after a cadet leaves. </p>

<p>It means a lot that you say there is good insight on the page. As parents we have really no idea what goes on, although we may surmise. We just want our kid to be whole, to support, to aid them in this journey and to be there to ask questions that help them think things through. You, having been in an academy environment, can clearly see it from a different perspective. Thanks for sharing that perspective with us.</p>

17

<p>Oh, hey. It's nothing. Just trying to help. :o</p>

<p>One thing that sometimes gets lost in the hoopla of DODMERB, NASS, I-Day, parades, catalogs, sports results, and all that good stuff, is a real sense of FAMILY. </p>

<p>Some of us pick up on it immediately. Others take a few years, even others a few years after graduating, but 99% of us get it; that feeling that everyone who wears YOUR ring is a brother, and those who wear the ring of another Service Academy are close cousins (in the case of Army, bastard stepchildren, but nobody's perfect. ;) ).</p>

<p>No matter where you go, when you bump into a fellow grad there is instant kinship. You'll find yourself sitting off alone the first few times, away from whatever group the both of you were supposed to be with, talking about what company you were in, or Academy news of recent years. I know, because a '77 grad and I just did that last week here where I work.</p>

<p>The parents will share a similar bond. A smaller group will share BOTH.</p>

<p>Most importantly of all, we always take care of our own. </p>

<p>Now, does this mean that everyone will be sitting in a big circle singing kumbaya? Nope, but it DOES mean that when you see someone ahead of you with a USXA bumper sticker or license plate (just like you), you WILL speed up to greet them, and they will then pass you to wave back, ESPECIALLY when the "X" is YOUR school. How many other schools can claim that?</p>

<p>Yes, USNA folks do stoop down to greeting folks from Army, too! :D</p>

<p>There's nothing like it, folks. Trust me. :)</p>

<p>Oh, and I should add that even guys who didn't graduate rate higher on the totem pole than the average schlub from anywhere else. If my roomates (one of which dropped, the other got ac-boarded) ever pop into view, they are brothers. Not fellow alumni, unfortunately, but brothers nonetheless. In the case of the second guy, you don't go through NAPS together and not feel that. In the case of the first, you don't go through half of Plebe Year and not develop a bond. It's just the way it is. To break it, you REALLY have to screw up.</p>

18

<p>Another message from Z-man gets copied and sent on to the thorpedo!</p>

<p>Enough already!!!</p>

<p>If you don't start copying these snipets and posting them in a book "to be published" you will be doing a huge disservice to all those soon-to-be and future mids to come! </p>

<p>These are priceless.....
and you are missing your calling!
Please....please....go back and copy them all.....put them in a book....guarenteed, I will buy one! (make that two.....one for the parent, and one for the mid!!!!)</p>

<p>Come on- you HAVE TO DO THIS!!!!!</p>

19

<p>on a quieter note-</p>

<p>5Family~
that had to be the most difficult trip back to NY that I have heard. My heart goes out to your son, and his family- along with my best wishes that he finds a place where he is happy and can thrive! Having an idea of what it takes to get in, I can only imagine the anguish it must take to brace up and say this is "not" for me- and then break that to family and friends. </p>

<p>I hope he loves his new place! Best of Luck!</p>