Hey guys. So I've gone for Princeton for a year now and am not exactly a fan. I was a big English/theater kid in high school and really wanted to go to Brown but didn't get in. I deciding between Williams, Northwestern, and Princeton last year, but ultimately went with Princeton because a) my parents are Princeton freaks, my father had been pushing the school on me since I was out of the womb and I didn't really want to cause drama, and b) the influence of Princeton is pretty undeniable. Although the classes are great, it's not exactly an artsy school; Princeton excels in engineering, not English, and the theater programs are pretty much nonexistent compared to other elite universities. I also get the sense that jocks rule the school; there's a higher concentration of sports kids than any other Ivy, and they have the advantage of having a built-in community in a school where even directors of student life will admit doesn't do a good job of facilitating social interaction among students. Also, the sheer amount of people obsessed with getting into 'prestigious' eating clubs makes me uncontrollably throw up in my mouth.
So, for those reasons, I'm strongly considering transferring to Brown. The better English program, the excellent theater there (and the fact that a theater program actually exists), the open curriculum, the lack of eating clubs, and the various reports that Brown is the happiest Ivy (although I'm not too sure on how this is measured) make it seem like everything I want from Princeton. Still, though, I do have a couple reservations. Mainly:
- I can't tell how much of this is just a result of freshman anxiety; Princeton might get a lot better in later years
- I don't know if a few complaints about school merits pissing off my Tiger Dad
- I've slightly been infected with the whole "Princeton is #1" mentality and I'm worried that Brown simply doesn't have the connections and internship opportunities that Princeton has to offer, as my dad would have me believe.
So I'm conflicted. I also still have to get into Brown, which isn't exactly gonna be a walk in the park, but I can't tell if I'm being ridiculous even wanting to leave Princeton because it's such a great school. I also don't even know if Brown actually is that much of a 'downgrade' from Princeton - my dad seems to think so, but he's not exactly an unbiased source. What do you guys think?
tl;dr angsty teen doesn't love Princeton and wants better english and theater programs at Brown, but doesn't know if it's worth angering parents / leaving the "prestige" of Princeton behind
Thanks for reading!
Completely not buying this: I know too many active theater and English students at Princeton. I have even freeloaded off a 2018 theatre student and slipped into couple of English and Theater lectures to hear some amazing speakers. You have Fintan OâToole guest lecturing this term (Bernard Shaw: Theater, Sex and Celebrity and Playing Dead: Corpses in Theater and Cinema)- have you been to hear him? I saw him give a Beckett lecture last year- superb.
This sounds more like unrequited love than a realistic assessment of the realities of Princeton, Brown, or âelitesâ. Brown rejected you. Time to let go and stop getting misty about imagined greener grass. Princeton welcomed you. Time to get serious about finding your people (they are there: of the current students I know at Princeton exactly 0 are into the eating clubs, and only 1 is into sports- and itâs sport she picked up after she got to Princeton).
@Ben_Swolo : The one thing common to Brown and Princeton is its donor for their main gate. (Brownâs Van Wickle Gates and Princetonâs FitzRandolph Gateway are both donated by Augustus Stout Van Wickle.) Did you just get your grades for the Fall semester? The fact that Princeton has its Fall semester final week set at the first week of Spring semester catches a lot people by surprise. Its curved grading system (OK, officially eliminated, but professors pretend they never heard of the policy change) is not exactly GPA friendly. Those big club houses on Prospect Ave are not exactly friendly to commoners either. But as @collegemom3717 said, it is too late to change now. It is time to settle down. I happen to know Princeton quite a bit. Your assessment of Princeton is not what it really is.
Princeton is a lot richer than Brown. A friend of my child took a geology course last semester and had a free European trip to collect some rocks. Since you are already there, you should try to take advantage of some of those opportunities. I do like Princetonâs campus a bit more when compared with Brownâs. Please settle down in your beautiful campus and enjoy your one and only freshman year.
Life is full of choices. Your first choice seems to have been based in large part on perceived prestige & parental pressure.
Now you need to assess your reasons for unhappiness at Princeton. Not sure, but I believe your post is either genuine or presents a realistic scenario.
Brown is the opposite of Princeton. Brown is low pressure, lots of freedom & artsy.
A possible course of action would be to take a year off & travel or work to get a more thorough perspective as a Princeton degree is highly prized & almost as valuable as a Harvard degree (which is recognized & worshipped throughout the world).
Another course of action is to see if you can be a visiting student for a year. Also, consider a study year abroad.
If you want to cure your theatre bugâor at least get a different perspectiveâaudition at Juilliard.
@Ben_Swolo : You said you were a big English/theater kid in high school. Are you getting bogged down by sciences core courses at Princeton? If so, please seek help as soon as possible. (https://odoc.princeton.edu/support/finding-help-academic-work/individual-peer-tutoring) Once you get through those cores, you are free to explore your interests. It is just short term pain. Best luck to you. Hang in there.
Your father doesnât happen to be @TiggerDad does he?!
These are grad school rankings and do not necessarily mirror the undergrad level, but I think we can safely say that English at Princeton doesnât suck.
Anyway, Princeton is tied for 8th and Brown is tied for 13th. I donât see any meaningful separation there.
Princeton is known, more than any other of the HYPSM group, for its undergraduate focus. So, if anything, the quality of teaching at the undergrad level â including the great access to profs â means that the English program must be quite strong.
Didnât (or doesnâtâŠ) Joyce Carol Oates teach there?
@Studious99
Thereâs a subtle difference between âTiger Dadâ and âTiggerDad.â 
In fact, âTiggerDadâ is actually making fun of this Tiger Mom phenomenon that I disdain so much as an Asian-American parent.
It seems to be a matter of personal preference, but I wouldnât expect to get in based on USNWR rankings alone, ie. going to a âlesser rankedâ school, so it will be easy to transfer. My daughterâs friend tried to transfer from Yale to Princeton and he didnât get in. The schools are all very different, and if youâre a match for Princeton, not sure youâd be a good fit necessarily for Brown.
Isnât this the first year that Princeton is accepting transfers ? And isnât the Princeton transfer program focused on two year college grads (community college & junior college) ?
I do think that there are some bragging rights in getting a Princeton student in transferring to a non-HYSM Caltech.
I suspect that the most welcome transfers into super elite universities would be West Point, Naval Academy & USAFA cadets. But maybe thatâs just my view of the world.
@Publisher : You are correct. This year is the first year in recent memory Princeton is accepting transfers. (https://admission.princeton.edu/how-apply/transfer-students)
This student needs real help. Survival is more important than thinking about transfer. Princetonâs grading system is brutal. Some of my childâs best friends in HS are there. For those humanity majors who try to do a curve in a science class with them, they soon will realize they make a big mistake to be in the same class with them.
Then everything makes sense with respect to the OPâs desire to transfer to Brown.
@TheOldTimer and @Publisher, the OP said nothing at all about struggling academically- in fact s/he said that the classes are great. Where are you getting the idea that s/he needs âreal helpâ and is struggling to survive?
The OPâs objections are largely cultural- Princeton is too much of a âjockâ school, the âeating clubâ thing offends, there isnât enough of a theatre program compared to other âelitesâ and academically it excels in engineering but not english. The âgrass is greenerâ points were about how Brown has a better english & theater program than Princeton and itâs supposed âreputationâ as the âhappiest Ivyâ.
Most of those âreasonsâ do not make sense on the face of it, much less as a reason to transfer anywhere.
I never wrote anything about âacademic strugglingâ.
I also disagree with the rest of your post.
@collegemom3717: I do not really understand the tone or reasoning of your post. What am I missing ? Thanks !
OP: Itâs a moot point until you apply and get in. Why donât you apply to Brown using your own funds, and, if accepted, that is decision time as to whether you really want to go forward with bringing this up with your parents.
OP: If seriously thinking about transferring, then you should apply to three or four schools, in my opinion. The reason is that if you are not accepted to Brown, it might cause you to feel anger & disappointment about your current situation.
@collegemom3717 : We are in STEM fields and donât know much about humanities in Princeton. My understanding is that the strongest departments in Princeton are in pure sciences (Albert Einstein). I wonât consider Princeton is strong in engineering, at least not at graduate level. Princeton is not very friendly to pre-meds just by looking at its applicants statistics. Most of my childâs friends who went to Princeton are going to study math there. I honestly donât think without having difficulties, OP will consider transfer. In fact, OP said âI canât tell how much of this is just a result of freshman anxiety; Princeton might get a lot better in later yearsâ.
OP, you should take dinky to transfer to a NJ transit train to NYC to get some fresh air if that will make you feel better. Good luck. Brown is more for commoners and has much more humble atmosphere. If you donât like Princeton, at least culture-wise, Brown is likely to be a good fit.
Post #11 posits that the student needs âreal helpâ and that it is a âsurvivalâ issue b/c of the brutal grading system & sciences at Princeton. I canât see any evidence for that at all- it seems to reflect the posters perspective more than the OPs situation.
I understood your post, @Publisher as saying (in effect) âoh -well, based on Post #11, it makes sense that the OP wants to go to Brownâ. Sincere apologies if I misunderstood your post.
The OPâs question was:
Because I know a bit about Princetonâs English and Theatre departments (including through current English & theatre students / very recent grads), I know that both departments are very strong. To say that Princeton is good at Engineering but not English is just on the face of it wrong. To say that there isnât a vibrant theatre program is simply not true. There might be specific differences at one school or another that the OP would prefer, but there was no indication of that.
Imo, the complaints about Princeton in the OPâs post read like somebody who is still longing for the one who broke her/his heart, comparing the bird in hand to the one that got away and sure that the other one is better.
Not sure if it makes my point any clearer, but I hope so!