<p>I just found out that one of S's classmates got into the school that S was dying to get into = Boston College.</p>
<p>The average GPA for accepted students at BC is around 4.0, this kid has a 3.3, but he's a legacy...his mom went there, his sister goes there, his brother got in off the WL and now he's in off the WL.</p>
<p>S had a much higher GPA as did many others who were not given the same consideration as these "legacies".</p>
<p>I think it STINKS. Rant off.</p>
<p>I actually don’t think legacy carries as much weight as people think. I know legacy applicants who were denied or WL at many top 30 schools. I would also add that while you believe you know the other student’s GPA - do you know his test scores? Do you know about all his ECs and leadership positions? Have you read his essays? My point being that there might be other reasons he was an attractive candidate to BC besides being a legacy. Of course, being a legacy can only help, but there may be other factors as well. I know when you hear stuff like this it is upsetting, but so much of the college admissions process seems not to make sense, I think you have to let it go.</p>
<p>I actually do know his test scores (lower than S’s), EC’s and GPA…he’s a friend of my sons and even he (the legacy), was laughing about how ridiculous it was that he was taken off the WL. I did not read his essay, perhaps it was a work of literary genius?</p>
<p>I know being a legacy doesn’t count everywhere, but it does at BC.</p>
<p>He has another friend with a 4.4 and 2390 who is a double-legacy at Duke and was WL there so…I think she eventually got in but it was pretty shocking that she was waitlisted.</p>
<p>It may be easier for legacies to get accepted from waitlists because colleges would figure that legacies would be more likely to accept their admission offers.</p>
<p>I agree with rockvillemom. I have seen a few kids get denied or waitlisted that were legacies and were decent candidates for acceptance. I am sure different colleges look at legacies differently, especially colleges that rely heavily on alumni donations.</p>
<p>Of course it stinks. The whole process stinks, and that’s coming from the parent of a child who got into a top choice school. But what stinks most about this process is that people will constantly try to convince you that it is possible to figure out what goes on in the black box of the admissions process. And one of the biggest black box factors is the essay. Please, rockvillemom, don’t take this as a personal attack, but the “have you seen the essays” question is perhaps the biggest cop-out in evaluating the process. Essay evaluation is highly subjective and despite protests to the contrary, nobody in the admissions office really knows who wrote the “best” essays. Legacy status is simply another black box factor; it matters when someone wants it to matter.</p>
<p>With schools that reject 80+% of their applicants, there is a virtual guarantee that 99% of the admitted students will succeed academically so the schools will always be able to say, “We were right.” Indeed, the example student given by the OP will succeed and BC will be able to point to the diploma as evidence of that success.</p>
<p>The cold truth is that I have no idea why my child was admitted at some schools and no idea why rejections came from other similar schools. And if someone involved in the process tried to explain it to me rationally, my guess is that the explanation wouldn’t pass the laugh test (on either the accept or reject side.)</p>
<p>I used to be an alumni admissions volunteer and had the notebook with the information we were supposed to use for interviews and in answering questions. Legacy candidates could have a small edge at BC.</p>
<p>As rockvillemom wrote, there can be a lot of other factors about the other student that you don’t know about. He might have some hobby, interest, etc. that you don’t know about or he may have written a very good essay that they liked.</p>
<p>I’m sure he will succeed at BC. I have often heard that the most difficult part of Boston College is getting in…it’s a VERY attractive school, hence the ridiculous number of applications they receive and ultimately reject.</p>
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<p>Well, there’s your problem right there. You’re a grown adult – for you to know / memorize some kid’s test scores, extracurriculars and GPA when the kid isn’t your own child means that you’re putting your nose where it doesn’t belong. </p>
<p>You don’t know all the kid’s extracurriculars. Some kids are doing amazing things and keep it quiet precisely because they don’t need nosy adults who aren’t their parents knowing about it. You don’t know the essay or the teacher requirements. You also don’t know the nature of the legacy – for all you know, grandpa gives beaucoup bucks to BC and BC rewards it (which they have every right to).</p>
<p>Edit: I just re-read the post and I see the kid came off the waitlist, as did an older sibling. Look, when colleges go to waitlist, they can use whatever criteria they like if their “regular” admissions cycle didn’t fill the class. They can privilege full-pays if they want. They can privilege legacies if they want (esp given that legacies will be more likely to accept). That’s how it goes.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, I didn’t “memorize” his stats, my son informed me of them as he had lunch with the student in question, and said student was astonished that he was accepted with his stats, which he proceeded to announce to the lunch table.</p>
<p>We live in a very small town, I even know his mom’s recipe for lemon pound cake.</p>
<p>Essays can be hugely important. Most of them stink, to varying degrees. Yes, to some extent evaluating essays is subjective, but (having participated in similar exercises) I believe that a group of like-minded people like an admissions staff will have near consensus over how to rank a pool of essays. Denigrating essays as an admissions criterion is as bad a cop-out as using essays to explain every anomaly. The fact of the matter is that at highly selective colleges essays are really important (but not exclusively important), and grades, class rank, and test scores are much less important than many people assume (although still important).</p>
<p>As for legacy admissions preferences, that’s part of what colleges do to ensure their continued survival and vitality. They support a huge giving/marketing apparatus that makes the colleges what they are. If you like the college, you have to like (or at least accept) its survival strategy.</p>
<p>Wow, you haven’t figured out if things aren’t always fair? My D was an alternate for a prestigious scholarship while those that came from rich families who donated lots of money to the school actually won the scholarship. That may or may not have been fair as those kids may have been equally qualified and it makes sense for the foundation to pick those who will increase their coffers. It may not be fair, but it is how things go and you might as well not be bitter about it.</p>
<p>speihei - I just have to ask - do you work in college admissions? Or do you work at a hs? Because unless you do and unless you have had the opportunity to sit down and speak with admissions reps one on one about the role of essays in the admissions process, I’m not sure that you have a legitimate basis for dismissing their importance. Essay evaluation is highly subjective, I agree. And in most cases - it is not a huge factor, unless it is positively horrendous or offensive. But I have had the opportunity to speak directly with admissions reps on this very point and they do remember certain essays that were just amazing and they did go to bat for those applicants. So again, it may not be a factor in this situation, the legacy alone might have been the determining factor, but we just don’t know.</p>
<p>In response to Pizzagirl, yes, I’m fully aware of “how it goes”, my son is also a full-pay and is attending a college where he was taken off the WL, but the fact of the matter is, it stings when you find out that your childs dream school is accepting less qualified students for reasons that may or may not be entirely fair.</p>
<p>I’m just ranting, okay?</p>
<p>GTalum my response to you is, see the above post.</p>
<p>Pardon me for ranting, which I clearly stated was my point in my opening post. I guess I’ll try to refrain from doing so again.</p>
<p>No good rant goes unpunished. :)</p>
<p>I would offer as comfort the fact that there are many excellent public universities that were established to provide an education without regard to the prospective students’ social or family connections or wealth, not to mention that even private schools are remarkably egalitarian these days. Your son’s situation is increasingly uncommon. Still, it always stings when someone says that you’re not good enough for their club.</p>
<p>This will be forgotten before you know it, and your son’s future success will allow him to thumb his nose at stupid ol’ Boston College for not recognizing a winner when they see one. Cheers.</p>
<p>No I don’t work in admissions. Yes, I have spoken with admissions officials on the subject.</p>
<p>Where I question over reliance on the essay is that it is subjective and unlike a standardized test, there is no way to know that the applicant wrote it or how much help the applicant had in writing it. In fact, it might be, after recommendations, the most easily manipulated part of the process. And while some in the admissions offices will opine that they can tell if an essay is edited, that’s an absolute joke when it comes to top students, top writers, and the applicant pool at top schools.</p>
<p>konabean - I think it is just fine that you want to rant and this is the place to do it. The college admissions process is not fair in many cases. My point was simply that you really don’t know the entire picture - you might know 70% or 80% but I hope you would agree with me that you can’t possible know 100%. I would also hope that you are happy with where your son is heading next year and that he is happy about it as well - and I would gently suggest you turn your focus from bitterness over BC to excitement over where he is accepted and is attending. You mentioned he did get off the WL at the school he will be attending - that is wonderful news and I hope your son is very happy at that school.</p>
<p>I hire people for a living. (lots and lots of people.) </p>
<p>Candidates with strong resumes sometimes make stupid mistakes when interviewing. Do they get passed over for people who are “less qualified”? Every day. That’s life. Your kid needs to learn this lesson now, not when he’s 30 years old and calling human resources at some company to find out why he didn’t get the job when he had all the qualifications and in fact, had superior qualifications to the person who actually got hired.</p>
<p>There are intangible factors (being courteous to the receptionist, sending a thank you note, being appropriate on telephone calls, i.e. NOT trying to schedule a follow up interview in a crowded and noisy restaurant on a cellphone) which can often give the edge to the less qualified candidate. This is a life’s lesson- sometimes the GPA is the MOST important thing (like when qualifying for Val or Sal) and sometimes it’s one of many things (like college admissions).</p>
<p>All of life is a black box and the sooner kids and their parents come to grips with that the happier they will be.</p>
<p>From what I understand, legacies are afforded an extra ‘read’ at admissions. For example, a school that gives each application two reviews before sending it on for further consideration, or not, would receive three. This would stand to reason, that from the waitlist, that legacies would again get more than a passing glance. The student may have sent a statement of interest after the waitlist notification, the guidance counselor may have sent updated records to be considered, who knows (or maybe you do). Some schools consider it more than others and it’s difficult when your child is the one that is passed over. I am sincerely sorry for your frustration. I’m sure there are many families that are feeling that sting.
My S’s top choice lists on their common data set among the highest things they consider to be legacy, gender, and race. All three my S has no control over, and he does not fall into the category they would be looking for. He has to focus on the things he can control. We are likely to be sitting in your shoes next year if he is not accepted, watching while other students in his school who do fit this criteria are accepted…possibly with lower GPA, scores, etc.
As much information as we are given regarding the admissions process, what they consider, and what goes on… there is still a human element. I pray that my S’s application reviewer has not had a flat tire or a fight with their spouse! :)</p>