<p>TheDad – can you elaborate on your earlier post: “For a young woman, I’d take Smith hands down over Amherst and Williams”. I have a feeling I know why you said that and I agree – I’d just like to hear more about your viewpoint. Thanks</p>
<p>I’m not TheDad. But in the same year that his D. entered Smith, so did mine. Mine was both recruited and accepted at Williams (which happens to also be my alma mater). She chose Smith over Williams in a heartbeat. It really wasn’t a hard decision. In the things she wanted to study, there is really no question that Smith is superior. In fact, (just for example), the total language offerings in Italian at Williams wouldn’t even qualify a Williams student to apply, let alone be accepted, to the the Smith study abroad program. Williams has nothing even remotely resembling the Smith STRIDE program (which ended up writing my d’s ticket to graduate school); nothing like the Kahn Fellowship program. It may differ in different areas, but in those that interested my d., Williams is clearly inferior.</p>
<p>Secondly, the drinking (50% of Williams students, according to the College itself, binge drank in the past two weeks, and almost 30% are heavy drinkers - either near daily, or three binges in the past two weeks), combined with the athletic emphasis of much of the campus, left her wondering how she’d fit. I;m sure she could have “made do”; after all, there are non-drinkers, non-athletes at Williams, but why should she have to?</p>
<p>In very recent years, Williams has indeed gotten more economically diverse, but it is still a far cry from Smith. And, at the time when she visited three times (with two overnights), my d. said she could feel it, and it made a difference to her.</p>
<p>Finally, and this my own bias as an alum - to my way of thinking, women at Williams are still very much treated as an “appendage” of the College. It’s been almost 40 years since women were first accepted, but the social life of the college revolves around male drinking and male athletics (football and basketball), and I’ve always had a sense that it bleeds into the academic life of the college as well. (I took classes from the very first female professor at Williams, and this was in 1969!) At Smith, it’s all women - all the time. Smith is NOT a liberal arts college that happens to be all women. It is a women’s college that teaches the liberal arts. They spend time and money looking at the trajectory of women’s lives - how their careers work, how money for women works, how to break into male gigs like engineering, what happens to older women trying to get their educations “late”. It is not Williams or Amherst only all-women. </p>
<p>Williams is a very, very, very, very fine college. But - and I’ll only speak for my d. - when it came to choosing, even up, it wasn’t even close.</p>
<p>Just to confirm, Mini is not TheDad. We <em>have</em> been in the same place at the same time but no one in the vicinity had a camera they thought to use, so the rumor and speculation is understandable given how so very similar we are.</p>
<p>Mini–thought it was interesting that you brought up the drinking at Williams. We have a friend whose d goes to Williams. Recently he mentioned how much drinking she is doing there; getting caught up in it. We were really surprised because she wasn’t that type of kid before college. It makes more sense now. The stats you quoted confirmed the experience of this friend’s daughter, sad to say.</p>
<p>For technical reasons that are not worth going through here, that 50% number is an underestimate. It is also higher among whites, males, and athletes, and what is important about that is these groups often set the tone for campus culture. At the last overnight my d. did before deciding, on a Thursday night, women brought flasks of hard alcohol to an a capella concert. That may have been unrepresentative, but it definitely influenced her decision (though the academics were the prime factor).</p>
<p>For the record, I live in a much lower rent district than TheDad.</p>
<p>One of the things that I think contributes very heavily to drinking at Williams is likely the isolation of it. I was really surprised when I visited how small Williamstown was and how physically isolated it seemed. Northampton, by contrast, offers a lot more to students looking for off campus, non alcohol related entertainment. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t want to give the perception that Smith women don’t drink. Most do, some do too much, it’s a college like any other in that respect, albeit probably on a smaller scale. However, I also remember discussing this with friends of mine who attended well respected large public universities, with football teams. They described their “schedule” to me, and I was literally confused as to how they could do their work and attend to their drinking. It was Thursday: drink and party; Friday: drink and party ahead of football game; Saturday: Tailgating and football and post football drinking; Sunday: recover. Trust me, no Smithie could do that and survive, though we like to have our fun the same as most college students. You need to be sober most of the weekend if you want to stay on top of your homework. </p>
<p>One thing I will say is that Smith takes great strides to ensure that it’s difficult/next to impossible for underage students to drink at on-campus parties or events. Houses are required to have ID-checkers and bartenders if they want to serve alcohol at their parties. And liquor stores in Northampton, as well as bars, are very strict about underage drinking as well. In order to get served, you have to have ID, and if it’s an out of state ID you have to have a second form of ID (like a credit card or insurance card) that has a name matching your picture ID. So while that doesn’t stop underage drinking, I think they take what reasonable steps they can to discourage it.</p>
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<p>Not a problem. I’m aware of numerous Smithies who are underage but frequent the bars and buy liquor. If the Smith administration were to search every dorm room, they’d find enough booze to open a liquor store. 
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<p>[Websites</a> selling fake IDs a booming business | GazetteNET](<a href=“Daily Hampshire Gazette”>Daily Hampshire Gazette)</p>
<p>This wasn’t good either. Great restaurant, but what the heck!</p>
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<p>[Eclipse</a> Restaurant in Northampton faces complaint it served liquor to underage Smith College students during power outage | masslive.com](<a href=“http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/11/eclipse_restaurant_in_northamp.html]Eclipse”>http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/11/eclipse_restaurant_in_northamp.html)</p>
<p>Hey CrewDad, what’s your point?</p>
<p>A lot of prospective students and parents are reading this. If you are trying to give the impression that Smith is a hot-bed of “hard-core partying” you are sadly mistaken. Particularly as compared to schools such as Amherst, Williams, or UMass. Folks please take CD’s comments with the proverbial “grain of salt.” Thank you.</p>
<p>No, it’s a good post. Students DO drink. The BIG story is that RA contacted the local police about underage drinking; I could never in a million years imagine that happening at my alma mater (in fact, from what we saw, they were often the suppliers of alcohol - though that may have changed.)</p>
<p>^^
Thanks Mini.</p>
<p>Boss, my point is to the tell truth. I did not insinuate Smith is a hotbed of partying, but I’m tired of everyone sugarcoating what goes on at Smith and in Northampton. Deal with it.
Not to mention the countless women, many who are first years, I see every Friday and Saturday night waiting to take the PVTA to the parties at UMass/Hampshire/AC.</p>
<p>Maybe with some forewarning, parents will have a serious conversation with their daughters about binge or over-drinking and they won’t have their child die before they even complete their first semester at Smith, as the much beloved Lizzy Aakre did. I think of her every day. Or, if the parents are lucky, their daughter will be rushed to Cooley for alcohol poisoning but survive, which also happens.</p>
<p>CD and Mini, I am not naive about underage drinking. I was a college student myself long ago in the Dark Ages. My point is that you are painting a picture which I feel is at least somewhat distorted. Granted there are many underage and/or problem drinkers at Smith(and most colleges) but the numbers here are relatively small in comparison to those at other schools. You seem to be obsessed with the negative aspects of Smith. Seems to me you could have better things to do on Friday nights than to count the number of Smithie’s boarding buses to the various colleges you mentioned. Give it a rest.</p>
<p>The numbers ARE much smaller at Smith (hey, I deal with stuff for a living). And, for me, the issue is not so much the drinking per se, but it’s impact on the college culture. Lots of students don’t drink at Williams (well, the numbers are actually relatively small, but they are there). But you’d have to be blind not to feel it in the culture. (and it’s a very masculine culture). It’s not so much a numbers issue, but a cultural one. You just don’t feel anything like it at Smith.</p>
<p>CrewDad we’ll let you have the last word on this. Something you’re quite comfortable with. ;)</p>
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<p>Sure do. While I don’t ‘count’ the Smithies, I have to pass the bus stop where they’re waiting when I’m on my way to the fine dining and the Calvin Theater, et cetera. Don McLean is performing in a few weeks. If you’d lighten up a tad bit, even you might enjoy the show. :)</p>
<p>Also, I don’t need you to lecture me about being negative or not caring about Smithies. I’ve been living and associating with Smith women more than half my life. Goggle Lizzy Aakre and read her mother’s heartbreaking blog and maybe, just maybe, you’ll understand my concern for the all the current and future Smithies and their parents.</p>
<p>You seem to be an expert on Smith, Vassar, Middlebury, Mt. Holyoke and a host of other colleges. I bow to your superior wisdom and sense of moral outrage.</p>
<p>As I said in my post, CD, there are certainly underage drinkers and underage drinking at Smith. But I can speak from experience as a person who was once an underage college student, the bars and restaurants in Northampton do make it very hard to buy alcohol there without genuine ID. The liquor stores are the same. Are there some who get around it through clever ingenuity? Probably. But again, speaking from my experience, most first years aren’t that dedicated to the hunt, or that slick, so they learn early on not to bother trying to frequent bars in town. </p>
<p>Now, as you say, and as I think I said, that doesn’t mean they don’t drink. Probably if the administration raided every dorm room, they could find a hefty supply of liquor. And underage drinkers on campus aren’t magicking alcohol out of thin air. Any place where you have a wide-range of students of different ages living together, being friends, is going to have some… let’s call it black market commerce. Or just plain old sharing. </p>
<p>I do think it is absolutely important for students and parents to have conversations about drinking before they go to college. And it can’t just be “don’t drink.” Parents, especially if they’ve been to college, need to be realistic. Smith is a dryer campus than most, but it’s still full of college students, most of whom drink at least a little. I think it’s important to arm your student with some basic, common sense safety. Don’t get into car with someone who has been drinking. Don’t get behind the wheel of a car if you’ve been drinking (this is less of an issue at Smith where many people do not drive). And an important one that’s too often overlooked, is the affect that alcohol can have when mixed with even run of the mill drugs. If your children take prescriptions, or even if they take tylenol, you or a doctor should talk to them seriously about the multiplier effect of alcohol and drugs. Too many kids go to college with misinformation on that score, and it can put their health at serious risk.</p>
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<p>SmithandProud, I didn’t say the bars and restaurants don’t make it difficult to buy liquor. They do. What I said was I know numerous Smithies who are underage but are served. That’s just a fact.</p>
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<p>You’re equating my concern for Smithies, I pray I don’t have to experience another senseless death, and that I am trying to ensure no parents will have to suffer as Lizzy’s have, with a sense of moral outrage? I’m speechless.</p>
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<p>We finally agree on something. ;)</p>
<p>I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to add another perspective. It seems that some posters are reacting as though asking a question about the proportion of lesbian students at Smith is itself insulting and/or homophobic. Here’s a few reasons why it isn’t: (1) the percentage of straight vs. lesbian students will necessarily influence the social scene (e.g., will lesbian friends be as interested to go to a party at Amherst?) (2) straight students interested in an all-woman’s school may well be looking to establish strong platonic relationships with other women. Potential sexual attraction complicates this (just as it does with guys). (3) lesbians and others within the Queer community have a subculture that is distinct from the larger “heteronormative” culture. A straight student may not be particularly interested in going to a school where a different subculture strongly flavors day-to-day life (think Provincetown, for example).</p>
<p>Bottom line is that a straight student may well decide that it is fine for her to go to a school where 11%, or 20% to 35%, or 50%, or 75%, or even 99% of the population is lesbian. But to suggest it has no significance one way or another is just not accurate.</p>
<p>People bristle at these questions because they do often have negative undertones. Many times they imply that being a welcoming place for lesbians somehow makes it a nonwelcoming or uncomfortable place for heterosexuals, which just isn’t the case. These questions are often posed as if this is the most significant component of Smith culture and life at Smith, when it’s really just one of very many aspects. Your post makes a lot of assumptions and presumptions, presumably about life at Smith, that my daughter just hasn’t found to be the case. Her day-to-day life has not acquired a lesbian subculture flavor, whatever that means. She has made an amazing number of friends, of all persuasions and personalities and interests, and sexual orientation/attraction has not caused any complications. </p>