<p>Ive been looking at the regulations and manuals that are posted on the usna website there is a lot of discussion about demerits, tours, restriction etc .. I find information about the ranges of demerits in terms of the grade given but nothing really specific for minor infractions (not drinking, drugs, assault etc ) Im looking for a laymans explanation of what mids can expect particularly what gets you demerits and what the punishments are during plebe year as well as an upperclassmen. Thanks</p>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>Okay, I have not been a midshipman. I am sure that others here with firsthand experience will pipe in as available, but I also feel that I may have a bit of insight since my son was a Brigade Investigating Officer and "An Honor Dude" as a firstie. </p>
<p>From what I gather, there are guidelines as to demerits meted out for offenses, but the circumstances, mitigating and aggravating, are huge factors in the level of the offense and the consequences. That is why there are BIOs. The BIO conducts interviews, prepares a brief, and then presents the information to the board. Depending on the level of the offense, the Commandant may be a member of the board. </p>
<p>One reason you will probably not find a prescribed offense=demerit list is that the punishment is generally tailored to the offense. Two plebes in my son's year were caught drinking with upperclassmen at a party. One was underage. All involved were "fried" to one degree or another, but the underage drinker was given almost the entire 4 year allotment of demerits during the fall of Plebe year. He evidently managed to keep it together for the balance of the time and graduated this year. </p>
<p>As to what can get you fried, well 2008 found out it was having a Facebook page. Electronic frying. Nice. Which is not to say they don't all have them now, but they need to be careful that there is nothing derogatory about USNA or overtly vulgar.</p>
<p>Anyway, the point is, if a mid just does what they are supposed to do, follows directions and doesn't try to "manage" demerits it should be fine. If, however, they are constantly being written up and have many investigations, the conclusion may be drawn that they are not ready/willing to lead the lifestyle. </p>
<p>Again, what I have written is nothing more than my collected impressions from very general conversations. I am sure I will be corrected shortly if I have misled you! ;)</p>
<p>Your new Plebe will be given classes (fomal and otherwise), at the academic and company levels regarding expectations, standards, behaviors, demerits, etc....they will know what will, and will not, get them into difficulty.</p>
<p>aside from the minor and major infractions noted by momof1, there are also
standards set for each company that are added to those set by the academy.</p>
<p>for example: "SAT" for grades is set at 2.0 by USNA, set at "2.5" by company "whatever." You can find yourself "SAT" for USNA, but "UNSAT" for yyour company- thus, incur remediation (manditory EI, loss of liberty, etc)....</p>
<p>momof1,</p>
<p>A BIO (Battalion Investigative Officer) is for honor offenses. I was one, too! It is actually really beneficial to be a BIO because it gives practical experience for a JAGMAN investigation (used primarily in the fleet) -- even though a BIO is investigating honor issues vice conduct/incident. The reporting is very similar.</p>
<p>Both conduct and honor have governing instructions (honor is a USNAINST, which mean that the Supe signed the order; conduct is governed by MIDREGS and the Administrative Conduct Manual, both COMDTMIDNINST).</p>
<p>As far as conduct, there are six levels of offenses -- from 1000 to 6000 (6000 is considered the most egregious offense and can result in separation). You can get in trouble for practically anything. For example, not knowing plebe rates is a 1k offense. Alcohol consumption above 0.20 is a 6k. Having a member of the opposite in your room when the door is not opened 90 degrees is a 4k offense (I have seen a 1/C get fried for this because the door was opened only 30 degrees). Within each 1k series there is an allotment of demerits and possible punishments. Demerits is just a number to keep track of a conduct grade (used in military order of merits) and the total allowed values for semester and cumulative marks. In general, upperclassmen are held more accountable for their actions. Plebes usually can get away with a lot. As I mentioned above a plebe can be fried for not knowing their rates, but this would have to be a reoccurring problem and caused by lack of motivation/respect. </p>
<p>If you do follow the rules, you shouldn't have a problem getting in trouble. Also to note, your company commander, company officer, and senior enlisted are responsible for company conduct. The is up to those members. Some CO might not want to fry someone, but handle it "in company." Others might go right to the conduct system. Upperclassmen have a good knowledge of officer reputations -- especially as Officer of the Watch. I could name officers on here -- who are "fry happy." The one thing I respect the most about my CO, CC, and SEL was to handle conduct offenses "in company" whenever possible (egregious offenses would go to the conduct system). In the fleet, there is no "MIDS" to fry people. There is EMI (Exta military instruction), formal counseling, NJP (Non-judicial punishment), and courts-martial. Sometimes you have to be able to workout problems within your unit and that's what the people above did. Being inputted to the conduct system is the quick/easy way of adjudicating people. Formal counseling and other methods is sometimes better and needed. Only serious offense, in my opinion, should be entered into the conduct system. Formal counseling is not taught well enough. Furthermore, I think the concept of the conduct system is not received well by the Brigade and MIDN are less likely to fry people. Formal counseling would work better and probably be more accepted for minor offenses (1k-3k).</p>
<p>UCMJ and courts-martial are only for serious offenses....like allegations of , . Any person attached to a shore command has the right to refuse NJP and request a courts-martial...always wondering if a MIDN would ever do that? Any persons attached to a ship -- even if moored -- cannot refuse NJP, but can appeal to next highest CO. (This paragraph is just FYI)</p>
<p>As an officer, you are expected to conduct yourself as an "officer and gentlemen." Accordingly, there is a UCMJ article/offense for "Conduct Unbecoming an Officer and Gentlemen." This same offense is ALSO found in the USNA conduct system. If you analyze this article, you can understand it is an overarching way to say -- you can get in trouble for ANY ACTION in which you bring discredit to yourself, your unit, the Navy, or military. For all the ladies...don't think you are exempted from this article because it says "gentlemen" -- it applies to both es and to commissioned officers, cadets and midshipmen.</p>
<p>Lastly, if you take away one general thing from USNA...it should be accountability. Accountability is real broad -- being accountable for yourself, for your people, musters, responsibilities, and ACTIONS. If you make a mistake ("shortcoming"), admit that you have erred and accept responsibility. If you try to make excuses, you are going to dig yourself into a hole. Most officers understand you are human and therefore, make honest mistakes (this is why I like informal/formal counseling, too). Furthermore, you will earn more RESPECT for being honest and upfront than trying to blame someone/something else. Getting into the habit of being accountable will help you down the line.</p>
<p>Any specific questions...let me know.</p>
<hr>
<p>To add to Navy2010:</p>
<p>Standards and expectations are formulated from the highest unit to the lowest unit. Each staff officer (academic, conduct, etc) can recommend (which is always approved), tighter standards at their level. In the example above, the Brigade Academic Officer might want to set Brigade SAT at 2.0 and 1 or more F's. The Battalion Academic Officer might say that Battalion SAT is Brigade SAT or 2 D's. The Company Academic Officer might state that Company SAT is all of the above or 1 D. The higher policy always wins and at each level, liberties might be taken away and certain requirements might be put in place. This also applies to conduct, aptitude, and physical education/PRT deficiencies (liberties taken, requirements added).</p>
<p>It is rare for a plebe to get fried for anything other than a major conduct offense (Drinking, getting arrested, driving, frat). Many time a plebe is given many chances before being put into the system for a conduct violation. Many times a plebe is fried if he/she is on the radar of the training staff as being sombody who just doesnt care.</p>
<p>Jadler- have sent you a PM.</p>
<p>Thanks for taking the time to explain all of this to us- once again, an excellent and informative post! Thank you!</p>
<p>Thank you so much. I appreciate it. As I remind my son --- your decision to join the academy is a join the navy -- Plebe Summer is boot camp right?</p>
<p>one of the things I have run into in coaching HS athletics is the smokeless tobacco. Its become a problem especially in baseball and hockey players. some of my players have been caught with it and suspended. Its legal I think, when they turn 18. I think its a terrible habit. How does the USNA handle this it and for that matter any tobacco product.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>I'm fairly certain that your not allowed to use it in the hall... atleast the rule is on the books, however I had never seen it enforced in 4 years and people dip all the time.</p>
<p>
[quote]
some of my players have been caught with it and suspended.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Did they get suspended from the team or school?... It was the same thing in high school too. I went to a catholic school and no one cared if you dipped as long as it wasn't during class. In the same way that no one cared if you smoked, as long as it wasn't inside the school, i.e. in the bathroom.</p>
<p>Caught with it in school, they were suspended from the team for 2 events its a state athletic assoc rule, same for alcohol or even pot. all considered the same thing. School also nails them with detentions. BTW its a private catholic, very strict, hair cuts, coats and ties. I do not teach there just help out with coaching. I think the difference is the plebes are 18 and over so they can legally buy tobacco products these HS kids cannot. We have had several kids go to USNA they seem to have done well. They just started enforcing against the dip this past year added it to the illegal drug list and alcohol. Funny thing is if you are in the drama club and are caught NBD. Its just enforced against the athletes.</p>
<p>I doubt many drama kids dip, although Skoal did just come out with a citrus flavor. It seems like a rule aimed at the most likely users.</p>
<p>When I did my CVW, the plebe I was dragging got fried like 30 minutes before he picked me up. In fact, the first words he said to me was "you're in for 1 hell of a weekend". He was caught sleeping in his rack during the day, which earned him a 3k, including like 15 hours of marching tours and 2 weeks restriction. They explained to me that they were making an example of him to the rest of his company, since this isn't really that serious of an offense. There were only about 25 days until Herndon at this point and many plebes were beginning to slack off, so this was sent as a warning.</p>
<p>One of my squad leaders at NASS dipped, but was done being a plebe (it's still wrong, but you don't get as much attention as a 3/c). I didn't approve, but he made it a point to give an informal lecture on the horrors of addiction and how nasty it is. One kid asked for some and I know he got a horrible write-up from the squad leader because of it.</p>
<p>O almost forgot. The plebe I dragged dipped too. And so did a lot of guys in the company. I asked them about it and they said it was perfectly allowed.</p>