<p>i am specifically wondering about the amount of cynisism among the cadets. how many just love USNA and the navy? how many are just trying to get by USNA, and don't care too much for what the future will hold in the fleet? thanks for the info :)</p>
<p>First off, the students at USNA and USMMA are called Midshipmen, not Cadets. From my CVW and NASS experiences, it seems that the majority of the cynical and negative mids are plebes, while the upperclass seem to be more chill and school spirited. The 2nd class and up are likely more concerned about their future in the fleet because they actually have an obligation.</p>
<p>sorry about the cadet/midshipman mixup. but anyways, i'm just trying to get a general sense of the social scenes of the academies, and wanted to know how common and fierce cynisism is at annapolis.</p>
<p>from my experience at cvw the mids are kind of cynical about lots of regs and higher up, but they stay there so they obviously have some reason to like it.</p>
<p>Lots of cynicism, but they love it, you can tell. Then there are the few that are cynical and don't want to be there but scrape by somehow. But as you get to 3/C, 2/C and 1/C they are less and less cynical and more and more cheerful. (Its the only word I can think of off the top of my head I just woke up. :P)</p>
<p>I'll be heading off to the USNA for C/O 2013. </p>
<p>Excited, ready to work hard.</p>
<p>But I have this question.</p>
<p>What about girls?
How do we socialize with them?</p>
<p>:(?</p>
<p>Edit: I mean I just couldn't imagine going 4 years without talking to a member of the opposite sex. That's a pretty big sacrifice to make.</p>
<p>"But as you get to 3/C, 2/C and 1/C they are less and less cynical and more and more cheerful."</p>
<p>My roommates and I are laughing.</p>
<p>usna_reject
Why not answer the question and give us your perspective?
Do you despise it? What's the general feeling on the yard?</p>
<p>I'll bet you're laughing. And many more, too. :)</p>
<p>My observation is that the cynicism has more to do with latent adolescence and the universal need to be on the team than it is about the rigors of the day, although not exclusively. Chow calls and chopping are definitely traditional mind-numbing modes of initiation. Are they particularly productive? :confused: I'll leave that for the pro's to debate. ;)</p>
<p>So it's not fully a function of age and acceptance, I suspect.</p>
<p>There are many, perhaps most who seem to genuinely love this notion of service, country, and being a wonderful part of something so much bigger than self and so much more important than the next frat bash. But corporate cynicism no doubt is a type of corporate "therapy." Prevents or at least discourages going NUTS, I spose! :eek: </p>
<p>Here's to all those blessed, brave and "boyish" nuts! :cool:</p>
<p>P.S. Observation and close listening also suggest there are a number of Mids who are not quite there yet, working to find themselves, wondering how the heck they got there and why the devil they're still there. Just like any other bastion of young adults. There are probably a bunch of associate trainees at IBM who wonder the very same thing. :confused:</p>
<p>No one person can give the perspective of the general feeling of the Brigade. You exist in your part of the Brigade spending most of your time with your company which is 1/30 th of the Brigade, or in class. In most cases the majority of the people you "hang with" are from among your classmates in your company. I think you will find cynicism, excitement, enthusiasm, optimism, pessimism, etc throughout the Brigade, and it changes on a daily basis per individual. Kind of like the rest of life.</p>
<p>Any person can give their perspective of the general feeling of the Brigade, as you just did. Thanks for sharing yours. As a former mid and dad, your perspective is very valuable. The perspective of any current mids would be valuable too.</p>
<p>LongC - lol. do you expect to talk to your classmates at all? or do you just not see USNA girls as "real" girls?</p>
<p>social scene:</p>
<p>"USNA is a terrible place to be at, a great place to be from."</p>
<p>just about sums it up for most.</p>
<p>some "lock on" sooner than others.
Attitude- it's all what you bring to the table.
Most only learn to appreciate the academy experience when they are looking at it in the rear view mirror; remembering to appreciate it while you are in the midst of it is the challenge, but one worth working towards.</p>
<p>Rules and regs, privilages and obligations- all change with the tides. Depends on Supe, Dant, CO, and companies.... no two are the same, and all will affect your individual experience on the yard. </p>
<p>Best advice is to "bring your best, always give your best, keep your eye on the prize and keep a sense of humor."</p>
<p>
[quote]
What about girls?
How do we socialize with them?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>hmmmm.... lots of discussion on this issue last year, some worth repeating.</p>
<p>for now- forget girls. They are there; dating them is a whole other issue.<br>
Rules on dating:
as a plebe, you cannot date any upperclass, and no matter what class you are in, you cannot date anyone in your company. For those that "find love" in their company, there is a "love chit" that gets issued- meaning one of you will get transferred to another company.</p>
<p>A word or two about "keeping things on the QT"....
forget it.<br>
Rumors fly- true or otherwise.<br>
Your mission- forget about dating on the yard, but if you do, follow the rules and regs.</p>
<p>Mids dating Mids.
Some say it's "ok," some will look upon this with a degree of scorn. (not sure scorn is the correct term, but certainly there are those that will not look upon such an arrangement without the comments that go with it). Do mids date mids? yes- all the time.... there are even terms that have been applied to this, however using them will find you before a conduct board for an honor violation, so will not post them here for sure. </p>
<p>Best advice:
you are not there for dating, or to meet girls, or for girls to meet guys. You are there for a much bigger purpose, and completing all that is expected of you will keep you busier than you can imagine. But you are not in a nunnery either.... if you want to date, go for it.</p>
<p>For those that attempt to make it into the 2% club- (whether dating a fellow mid or a civilian) they don't call it 2% for nothing. Keeping a relationship going- whether on or off the yard- is difficult at best, but especially so during Plebe year. Your time is not your own- and what you do have of it will be divided between your company mates, visiting families, and who-knows-what other "obligations" come along. At best, you will get free time for a few hours on Saturday afternoons-evenings, and fewer still on Sundays.... providing you are not assigned to watch or on academic restriction, or just trying to "catch up" or "Stay ahead" of the academic load. The bottom line is there is not much time left for girlfriends, and not many "significant others" opt to put up with it. (it works both ways)</p>
<p>so for now, the best thing is to consider girls "secondary, optional and conditional".....</p>
<p>
[quote]
or do you just not see USNA girls as "real" girls?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>this is an interesting question....
and until recently, had not given much thought to it.</p>
<p>just recently, a female mid (not sure of the class year) posted a study on this topic on another site.... apparently did some research on how female mids view themselves while at the academy. I am not sure of the date of the study, but I do recall it being rather recent.... 2006???</p>
<p>Anyway....her findings found two "types" of female mids at the academy.... those that gravitated towards the "girly girl" end of of the spectrum, and those that didn't.... the latter often reffered to by the former as "letting themselves go".... meaning, no fussing with hair, makeup, etc. There was also a notation of distain by the latter towards the former amongst the two groups.</p>
<p>Her findings also noted that the "male" side of the Brigade had, in general terms, more respect for the latter "non-girly types" as they were percieved as working harder towards meeting the standards established for the "men"..... the "girly girls" were not viewed as postively by the brigade overall. </p>
<p>The study also found that many female mids, otherwise not overly "girly" in their "civilian" environment, graviting towards that end when on the yard, even though they were percieved "less favorable" buy their male counterparts. To this end she noted that the vast majority of female mids wore "minimal makeup, did not overly fuss with hair or nails, and wore minimal jewlery," while the subset of "girly girls" wore "full makeup, fussed with hair and manicures, bought frilly undergarments" to an extent beyond what they "typically did in their civilian environment."</p>
<p>Another interesting finding what that the female midshipmen were harder on each other than their male counterparts..... there were several specific examples offered to support these findings. Again, the females that strived to be more like the "men" in terms of physical standards in particular, were more postively perceived by the "overall brigade" than the females that fell to the back of the pack, or passed the physical challenges only "minimally." </p>
<p>anyway, your question of seeing "USNA girls as "real girls" is most interesting........ the conclusion of the research done centered on how the "real girls" saw themselves! </p>
<p>There is still a negative undertone of mids dating mids.... not sure how much of this exists on the female side, but it is definately papible within segments on the male population on the yard..... still lots of "talk" amongst the men towards dating female mids.... as in "why would you want to." ....again, just an observation.</p>
<p>Now for all you female mid parents out there... please don't shoot the messenger; and for the record, I am pro-female midshipmen. And no doubt there are countless stories of mids dating mids with "happy ever after" endings..... and yes, lots of photos of "mid couples" at the ring dance get posted every year..... but in the overall scheme of things, the numbers appear to be small.</p>
<p>Anyway, interesting question.</p>
<p>As for "friends".... now that is a horse of a different color. Lots of friendships between male and female mids........ </p>
<p>anyway- back to "real life."
if you are considering dating a fellow mid, just make sure to "know the rules" and follow them. Sex in bancroft.... off limits... have heard it happens, but get caught and you will be "out." SOOO NOT WORTH IT. Do yourself a favor and keep your private life seperate and apart from your life on the yard.... it will be a lot less complicated in the long run. Just my opinion.</p>
<p>ps....
when our son graduated, his BGO came to his graduation celebration and met his then girlfriend.... he advised our son that he would be better off "without the added distraction." More than one person had told him that "if the navy felt you needed a wife, they would issue you one." (feel free to substitute in girlfriend).<br>
I would share the rest of the saga, but it is far too long, far too complicated, and who really cares anyway. But take it from a "mother" that has "BTDT".... do yourself a favor and put "girls" smack at the top of the "Secondary, optional and conditional" list..... and keep it there as long as you can.</p>
<p>Navy2010 knows almost more than what most mids know, so consider her response to be near perfect in my opinion.</p>
<p>From my view, most male midshipmen would have a problem dating the "typical" female mid because they see them as "peers" going through the same struggle as we do. Most of them can compete with us in most aspects of Academy life, which often translates to good friendships, but really nothing else beyond that.</p>
<p>In general, the perspective from male mids is that all female mids are just there to pick up male mids and that they really aren't serious about the military training. When we see females trying just as hard as we do at everything, we gain respect for them, but then again some people see it as competition.</p>
<p>As for the "girly" mids, well a good portion of them are seen as rejects in some form or another. Wearing makeup and a lot of jewelry is often scorned upon or discouraged by many senior enlisted and officers around the yard. If your company officer lets his or her opinion known about an issue (like clothing), mids have the natural tendancy to want to follow the CO's or the Senior Enlisted's advice in hopes to get ranked well.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"USNA is a terrible place to be at, a great place to be from."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>With all due respect to the informed 2010, I think this is a fashionable idea that I don't buy. Sounds like a media sound bite.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Navy2010 knows almost more than what most mids know, so consider her response to be near perfect in my opinion.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>go figure!!!
well, perhaps it will make up for my mix-up of Memorial Hall and Smoke Hall! LOL! :o</p>
<p>anyway, who's to say what is "right" for anyone else.....
as for me, I believe in "fate".... if it's meant to be, it will be, and who knows where and when that love bug will bite! </p>
<p>If I thought sending my son some bug repellant would help, I would have him bathing in it.... at least for the next 2 years!!! :o</p>
<p>
[quote]
USNA is a terrible place to be at, a great place to be from." </p>
<p>With all due respect to the informed 2010, I think this is a fashionable idea that I don't buy. Sounds like a media sound bite.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>nope.... just some careful notations of what I have gleened from lots of alumni over the past few years..... added to my own observations. Wish I could take credit for the quote.... but alas, it is "lifted" from wiser souls that have BTDT!</p>
<p>I have received some valuable advice from many mids that I plan on following:</p>
<p>"Don't date inside the gate."</p>
<p>LOL!!! And I would add to that: "don't date outside the gate either!"</p>
<p>You all have way too many other important things to do!!!!
Who needs all the drama anyway???!!!! (and it nearly always involves some of that eventually!) Why ruin a good friendship!!!!</p>
<p>(BTW- this applies to both genders!!!!!) ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
"Don't date inside the gate."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
And I would add to that: "don't date outside the gate either
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Whatever happened to the iron triangle??? One in the hall, one over the wall, and one to call...</p>
<p>But in all seriousness though, I don't see any reason to shun dating during your time at the Academy. Dating in the hall can be tough and drama filled so that makes sense, but as far as dating someone in the general area or even from home there isnt much of an issue. If the girl/boy needs to spend two hours a night on the phone with you then yeah, you should probably drop it. But having a girlfriend while at the Academy doesnt have to be a full time job nor should it ever be.</p>