<p>A letter to the editor in the February 13 issue of the Princeton Alumni Weekly in response to a recent article the magazine ran on the college admissions frenzy caught my eye. I thought it was very thoughtfully written and would be of interest to many CC parents:</p>
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Mercifully, Merrell Noden ’78’s worrying “Admission Obsession” (feature, Dec. 12) tells only part of the story. Overall, the recent bulge in applications is a boon to American higher education.</p>
<p>I’ve been converted to this view by my experience as both a parent and an educator. Two years ago my oldest daughter and her friends — all smart, accomplished, interesting, self-motivated kids at the very top of their class at one of the best public high schools in the country — were turned away in droves from the nation’s most competitive colleges and universities. Those accepted at such schools (including my daughter at Princeton) largely were legacies. </p>
<p>A tragedy? Hardly. Students who a generation ago would have attended Ivy League schools are thriving at regionally known, private liberal arts colleges and universities and the impressive Midwestern state universities. They study with professors trained at the best graduate schools, participate in honors programs, receive merit scholarships and study grants, and — at small schools — conduct exciting research with faculty undistracted by graduate students. </p>
<p>In this new setting, obsessing over the perfect r</p>
<p>Gag - she better be lowering expectation for D2 - word on the street is that number two has a tough road to climb unless they check "no financial aid." I just hate this sort of paliative "it's just fine to settle" message. This is a parent with one into Princeton already! And it's just fine with her that most who manage to "get in" are legacies. No, that's in fact not just fine. I also get very tired of the sweeping statements that daughter and all her friends from a "top" public hs all were stellar and so deserving. In fact, at the tip top of transcripts, test scores, ec's, rec's, there is quite a broad range. There is plenty of room to make rational decisions. This woman's inane article biased me strongly against Princeton for my kids.</p>
<p>You make some valid points, but I thought that her message that kids of her acquaintance are getting great educations and having great experiences at lesser known schools is valuable. I don't think it is necessarily "settling" if someone goes to a great school that is not HYPS. FWIW, it's not an article, it's a letter to the editor in response to an earlier article.</p>
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Gag - she better be lowering expectation for D2 - word on the street is that number two has a tough road to climb unless they check "no financial aid."
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<p>I think the worse case scenario, D2 could attend Northwestern and recieve up to 90% tuition remission (not a bad "financial safety"). In addition the parent receives almost 13k in tuition remission bennies for the D at Princeton.</p>
<p>My reaction: she has one kid into Princeton and the other qualifies for a great deal at Northwestern. It's fine for HER to claim that all these Ivy-qualified kids are "thriving" at all these other places. How does she know?</p>
<p>Let her Princetonian legacy surrender her place to some other deserving kid, and then say it's all just fine.</p>
<p>Certainly Ivy acceptance isn't the answer to everything in life, or even the only answer to getting a good education. But I agree with Mammall: coming from someone with one firmly in hand this is simply hogwash.</p>
<p>My S's friend was applying to college the year after the Yale massacre. I encouraged him to look into P. Our HS had never sent a person there, but this boy certainly qualified, and P fit his interests and personality. He was accepted early, with terrific FA, and loves P. No legacy factor, no HS guidance dept connection, just a neat kid.</p>
<p>She makes some very good points, but I bet she wouldn't be making them so confidently without a D at Princeton. </p>
<p>True for many of us--the first child, esp. if an "overachiever," validates our worth as parents & educators so we can relax with the second or subsequent children.</p>
<p>You folks are being too hard on her. At least she's not spouting the "HYP or nothing" garbage that some parents do. I don't see anything wrong in her pointing out that smart kids can get a good education in many places. She probably gets many positive reports from her daughters friends.<br>
And if her daughter was one of those HYP rejects, we'd be accusing her of rationalizing and pumping up her own set of circumstances. Can't win here sometimes...</p>
<p>I agree with toneranger and with the letter's author. It is a wonderful letter falling on "deaf ears" in any Princeton publication, however. Right idea, wrong forum. The author's credibility suffers, as others have pointed out, from already having a legacy at Princeton. This is a letter that probably should not have been written under the author's circumstances.</p>
<p>I think her credibility suffers from even mentioning her D got into Princeton. She didn't have to to get her point across. Had she left that tidbit out, I'd "like" her better, maybe respect her opinion. But she just couldn't resist (although she did try to downplay the wonderful news, in case anyone was wondering, by throwing it between parentheses;)).</p>
<p>mammall, your comment about "no financial aid"-care to expand about that "word on the street"? Can it be that colleges really are not "need-blind" as I have been saying and that they can "figure out" by parents' education and professions whether a student will truly need financial aid? Is that what I am interpreting in your statement? There are many who just do not believe that colleges really do this sort of thing--and I, for one, think it has been going on for years!</p>
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word on the street is that number two has a tough road to climb unless they check "no financial aid."
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<p>Which street? On the street where I live, I hear almost the opposite, although I will want to observe this year's admission results to get a reality check on what I hear on the street.</p>
<p>I thought her letter was poorly written. First she says her daughter and her friends were turned away "in droves" from the nation's top U's, then she says her daughter was accepted to Princeton. Huh?</p>
<p>I do agree with her recommendation to lighten up on the AP load, but that's only because I learned from CC that the average is 4 APs for admittees to our top U's. AP credit doesn't even transfer to most of those schools, and it really does take away from pursuing being a kid and figuring out who you are when you are not studying.</p>
<p>Bay, I also agree with you about the APs--some colleges with honors programs will not accept AP credit. Therefore, AP credit, in my opinion, happens to show admissions that you are capable of college work. But, don't bank on being able to use all of that AP credit.</p>
<p>I like the letter. I don't see why the author's situation so heavily discredits her point (personally, I felt oppositely). A few posters have said "This is easy for her to say with one kid already into an Ivy." Well, I'm not a parent, but I don't imagine that "Well, one's already in a great school, so to heck with Daughter #2" is really this woman's train of thought.</p>
<p>Ignoring the author's message just because of her personal situation is, IMO, pointless, particularly given how widely accepted her words already are on this board. She's not saying that kids can go anywhere and plan to become rich/famous, that Podunk U is as just as good as Harvard, or that slacking is a good strategy for success...there are no wild claims being made. All she's saying is that admission to many schools, even for the most well-qualified applicants, is largely a crapshoot, but that smart and talented kids will generally find themselves with good options. The world doesn't end because HYP turns them down.</p>
<p>I don't have data to know for sure, but I think that the author's original claim--that this application bulge is a boon to higher education--makes a lot of sense. Given the number of highly-qualified college applicants, quite a few of them are bound to wind up outside of the Ivy League (plenty of them won't apply there in the first place). Some schools that barely made the map just a generation ago are now considered top tier. Applicants can make "fit" their #1 priority and still, no matter what their preferences (within reason), find a set of great schools to meet their needs. Well-qualified professors, intelligent classmates, research experience, affordability...none of these is exclusive to the tippity-top-most schools, and there's really no reason that a 16 year old needs to give herself an ulcer believing otherwise.</p>
<p>I really just don't see cause for so much negativity, given that the ultimate message is:</p>
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In this new setting, obsessing over the perfect r</p>
<p>MotherofTwo, no disrespect intended, but I agree: this woman's letter appears smug in the extreme. "MY daughter got into Princeton, but don't worry, the rest of you nonlegacy peons, someone will hire you someday". I would rather have read a letter from a mom whose legacy daughter was not admitted to Princeton but is thriving somewhere else. I think she speaks with no authority on the subject. </p>
<p>I also frankly suspect that "dialing back" for this woman means, probably 5 instead of 10 APs, etc., and I am just betting that "doing things she loves" means doing something at the highest level (or else why would she be applying to those "highly selective schools"?) for the same dang purpose that she pushed the older one--to be able to write in her alumni notes that her daughters, Princeton 08 and HYPS 12, are doing great.</p>
<p>Bay, my kid is taking 5 APs this year, and finds time to "be a kid" and pursue sports and music as well as other things. He takes APs because they are the most interesting and challenging classes, with the most committed classmates (and often the best teachers), not because he has any thought of getting college credit for the class. He does not appear to be spending a huge amount of time studying. Actually, the class for which he does the most work is an interdisciplinary honors course unique to our school. He has 5s on his 3 APs so far. The last thing he wants is LESS intellectual challenge in high school...</p>
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I also frankly suspect that "dialing back" for this woman means, probably 5 instead of 10 APs, etc., and I am just betting that "doing things she loves" means doing something at the highest level (or else why would she be applying to those "highly selective schools"?) for the same dang purpose that she pushed the older one--to be able to write in her alumni notes that her daughters, Princeton 08 and HYPS 12, are doing great.
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<p>May be true, may not be. I certainly don't see anything in the letter itself that gives cause to assume all this, let alone pass judgment on it...</p>
<p>And plenty of students apply and get in to "highly selective schools" without being untouchable superstars. It may not be a fact that's well-supported by some of the stats profiles on CC, but it's true, nonetheless.</p>