<p>The mere fact that this case is being discussed and debated is a win for him, IMHO. Whatever happens, it will be a great lesson for this young man.</p>
<p>I think supergaut24 you got it right. If Jian Li is already accepted to Yale then his only purpose for bringing this suit is to right something he feels is an injustice. Why should one person have an advantage over someone else because of something that they couldn't control? This includes race and geographical location. Everyone is entitled to get a great education and no one should be denied because a factor that is out of thier hands. I got a 1980 on my SAT, most people would say that is bad compared to other Indians. Why should I be compared to them?</p>
<p>I totally also agree with supergaut24. Who cares if this guy is a prick? He doesn't seem like it anyway. And how else are things going to change? It's certainly not justice, the way things work now. At least he stood up for it. He's already into Yale...he has no hidden agenda, he isn't asking to be admitted. He himself said he's happy at Yale and he picked Princeton arbitrarily. So quit taking the easy way out by criticizing him, and argue his point.</p>
<p>Some of us <em>are</em> "arguing the point." And we do it without needing to resort to ...hmmm... "language."</p>
<p>Agreed with supergaut24. Jian Li is only filing the lawsuit because he feels that there is an injustice in the system, which is something many colleges (at least officially) refuse to acknowledge.</p>
<p>Epiphany, by your logic, anyone who is not privy to alll the details of a selection process has no right to complain of its unfairness. Surely you can't be serious?</p>
<p>guys, relax.</p>
<p>no, it is easy to sit and study and not do much else...</p>
<p>so, shortcut, you want to admit people based on genetics. alone...interesting and pathetic thought...me, I think looking at the whole person- their interestes, strenghts, passions, lives, recommendations, hard work, overcoming problems</p>
<p>A perfect score is very nice, but it is NOT the person and to think it is sad indeed</p>
<p>(For your information, in HS, I got a 1570 on my SATs back in the day with little prep, I was just a great test taker)</p>
<p>So you want a class of people who can ace tests and that ace-ing a small range of tests somehow show's that person is more intelligent that other people</p>
<p>So, to shortcut, who seems to beleive there is a superior race of people according to some test needed to get into college, all I can say is WOW....</p>
<p>sounds kind of scary to me that someone would talk about genetics to explain high scores, does that mean the reverse, that low scores is becuase of bad breeding or race? Becuase that is CLEARLY what you are saying</p>
<p>come on, I can read between the lines of a racist post when I see it</p>
<p>I NEVER mentioned race, I talked about the arrogance of someone who thought scoring well was enough and other criteria is irrelevant when getting admitted to any college</p>
<p>And you have NO clue what my Ds scores are and you never will, but I can say this, we are not losers, nor bigots, unlike shortcut, who seems to be into weeding out the poor genetic pools from colleges</p>
<p>sounds so familiar and very very scary</p>
<p>I have never heard of this lawsuit, I don't know if I should really care about this lawsuit considering there are probably more important and newsworthy stories in the news...</p>
<p>However, I can tell you right now why his lawsuit should fail.</p>
<p>Princeton is a PRIVATE institution, and the government can have no say over how a PRIVATE institution conducts their admissions...they have the right to admit who they want, and there is absolutely no reason why they would have to admit Mr. Li, even if it was just because he was Asian.</p>
<p>Now, my guess? Mr. Li thought he was in, slacked on his essay, and was rejected for that reason. Considering the essay is stated at all colleges as one of the most important factors for why a person is admitted, he should have known better.</p>
<p>Truth is, test scores and GPA do not indicate whether or not a person will be successful; colleges are businesses, and they want to admit people who will be successful. Successful people tend to take essays seriously, and tend to have good EC's.</p>
<p>The reason why Blacks and Hispanics are admitted to these private institutions? With a 4 year degree, they are more likely to be successful, as BUSINESSES want variety of ethnicity too...and they want educated people for that. There are also many organizations devoted to ethnic groups, and without college graduates running those organizations, they might not function perfectly.</p>
<p>In addition, many of the 2400 top 1% Asians and Caucasians have only reached this status so they could go to a good school, NOT because they have hopes dreams and aspirations...they only worked so hard and did so well because they wanted to go to a good college. And if they don't have hopes dreams and aspirations, they won't be successful.</p>
<p>And if you don't believe me about the "hopes, dreams, and aspirations" people versus the "I just want to go to a good college" people...look at the What are my Chances board. I am continually disgusted by the number of people who go there, post there stats, say NOTHING about who they are and what they want to do with their life, and then list 4 5 6 or even 10 of the Top 10 schools with 1 or 2 other random schools, and then ask "Do you think I can get in?" They are so set on GOING to college that they don't care about life AFTER college, beyond perhaps making money with a decent career.</p>
<p>This phenomenon results from Asians and Caucasians being raised in an environment where "getting in" is all that matters...and it's an upper-class phenomenon, often restricted to these ethnic groups (though it does occur among Blacks and Hispanics, just much much much much less often). Many of the Blacks and Hispanics applying to these same schools, in fact around 95% of them, DO have hopes, dreams, and aspirations...and they're striving to achieve them. That's why they get in.</p>
<p>There are so many reasons why private institutions have every right to use affirmative action...far more than there are for public institutions (and I could make a good case for that, too, should any of you be interested...). I suggest all of you whining about Affirmative Action just give up now, because the fact you're whining about it instead of fulfilling your dreams strongly indicates that you won't get into one of these colleges.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>All right, I get it. Blacks and Hispanics score well on the SATs because they are just successful. Asians and Caucasians score well because they are nerds and are bound to fail.</p>
<p>This blatant racism is appalling.</p>
<p>For comment:
"There is an overabundance of Asians applying to top colleges who are premed because their parents forced them to do this. Every year, I interview students as a Harvard alum interviewer, and every year, about a quarter of the students who apply to Harvard from my area are Asian even though Asians are about 1% of my area's population."</p>
<p>What this Harvard alum does not realize is:
Although "Asians are about 1% of my area's population", however these Asian's immigrant parents are selected from 1 billion people back in China. They carry the superior intellectual genes from the natual selection.
America is lucky to have them and have their offsprings like Li. </p>
<p>America is successful because of the human capital it attracts. Wealth is the by-product of the human capital.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, Mr. Li is fighting against RACISM and DISCRIMINATION.</p>
<p>How can you people even call him arrogant? He's fighting because an institution is UNFAIRLY giving disadvantages to certain people based SOLELY on the color of their skin. </p>
<p>No matter how you try to justify it, it IS racial discrimination and you all know it.</p>
<p>Whites and Asians are ALL out to get black people. ANYTHING that's not good for blacks is meant to destroy the race. Oh, and every non-black race is simply inferior in someway!!!!</p>
<p>This ethnocentricism is laughably naive.</p>
<p>For Citygirlmom:
"sounds kind of scary to me that someone would talk about genetics to explain high scores, does that mean the reverse, that low scores is becuase of bad breeding or race? Becuase that is CLEARLY what you are saying"</p>
<p>To be politically INCORRECT and statistically speaking, SADLY, THAT IS TRUE.</p>
<p>Most of Asians are short, so they are not on our basketball team. Yao Min is the one selected from 1 billion folks and he was genetically produced (Both of his parents are basketball players from Chinese national team). Of course, among a billion people, there are always exceptions (few Chinese tall and talented players).
On a similar note, blacks are great sport players, singers... however, they lack of the intellectual caliber that Asians possess. Of couse, there are exceptions, like Ophra, Obama and etc.</p>
<p>As I said, these are undeniable statistics, regardless how you want to spin. Otherwise, there will be more Asians on the basketball teams and the Ivy's do not need to adopt AA for the blacks.</p>
<p>Good for you to get 1570, please don't tell me you did not study hard for it. I solute anyone who get scores above 1500. It's not an easy job and I can't do it. But I'm happy to go to a less prestigious school. Becuase that's where I belong.</p>
<p>On a seperate note, if you had 1600, your posts will carry more weight.
But if you did have 1600, I guess you will not waste your time on this board because you have better things to do in life. This board is not an entertainment, and nobody's getting paid here. If you have a little smarts (like getting 1570), you should realize time is money ....</p>
<p>
[quote]
All right, I get it. Blacks and Hispanics score well on the SATs because they are just successful. Asians and Caucasians score well because they are nerds and are bound to fail.</p>
<p>This blatant racism is appalling.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>innocentstalker1, evidently you DON'T get it, because that was not what I said at all.</p>
<p>MANY of the Asians and Caucasians who get the 2400 and are in the top 1% reach these levels NOT because they have hopes, dreams, and aspirations (which are what CAUSE people to be successful), but because of SOCIAL PRESSURES.</p>
<p>This is nothing RACIST, this is based on the simple fact that different ethnic groups have different social pressures.</p>
<p>Asians and Caucasians of wealthy families generally have the social pressures to just do college, much like they have social pressures to just do school and get good grades and get a 2400. This doesn't apply to ALL Asians and Caucasians, for if that were true, there would be NO Asians and Caucasians at Princeton or Harvard. However, many do...and also many of the Blacks and Hispanics who BOTHER to apply to college have the dreams and aspirations and really care about learning. Those who don't care about learning often don't get good grades, and don't go to college but certainly not a top level.</p>
<p>Now yes, some Hispanics and Black students do have the social pressures of everyone else...but it is rarer.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But Princeton, like most private universities, still receives federal funding, and the government can take that away if Li wins his complaint.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>True, they can if they want. But I think it would be rather sad if they did this just because of affirmative action...I'd prefer they respect the rights of private businesses.</p>
<p>no, the complaint is aobut not getting accepted despite near perfect scores and gpa...that is the complaint</p>
<p>he felt with his SCORES he deserved admitance everywhere, and NO one deserves admittance everywhere</p>
<p>the Li is looking at humans as are many posters here in a very one dimensional way- #s--- people are so much more than that, and when people are taken to the lowest common denominator of scores achieved is indeed sad</p>
<p>people are different, and those differences are to be embraced and not jsut put down to one company's test...yeah ONE company</p>
<p>some of the smartest people I know do not test well, some have LDs, some can do rap, some can write poertry, some are painters, some can build houses, some can design clothes, some can make a sad kid happy</p>
<p>the very idea of judging intelligence based on 4 hours worth of testing is really scary and sad</p>
<p>i understand the need for testing, to create some common ground for comparison, but to think that is enoungh, to understand a person, who they are, is really close minded indeed</p>
<p>we have a school here in San Francisco, and those that leave here can probably guess which one, but I won't name it, where #s have kind of taken over, and sometimes the love of learning is lost and rank, and playing the system, at least for a large enough portion of kids to affect the "feel" becomes more imortant than really expanding the mind</p>
<p>Once again, I will say it:</p>
<p>It is imperative that schools, employers, etc look at the WHOLE person, not just #s</p>
<p>By looking at just #s, schools would miss out on some amazing students, and the prep program for the SAT would become even bigger</p>
<p>To the poets, the musicians, the lovers of learning, be strong....#s will not take over</p>
<p>And to those in love with scores as the way to judge a person, when you are judged on who you are based on one test from one company, solely and ignored for who you are, maybe then you can understnad what I am saying</p>
<p>back in 1979 there was not much prepping for the SAT, you got a book, sat in the sun getting tan for prom and kind of reading it</p>
<p>my D has a friend who is extremely bright, but just learned she has a math LD, so does poorly on standardized tests, but when she is in class does pretty okay, should she be automaically be rejected because she has a hard time on ONE test?</p>
<p>that would be very sad indeed</p>
<p>(if you are curious, I am waiting for one of my Ds coming from a school play- she is one stage crew, so I surf the web while I wait, not that I care what people like shortcut think)</p>
<p>Anyway, as I said, I look at the whole person- not race, not scores, not height, not eye color</p>
<p>I look at humor, compassion, humility, view of the world, etc</p>
<p>ANd ps- anyone here ever read the posts of many unhappy students, many who divulge they are Asian and who are going after degrees they don't want, who have parents who are unhappy no matter what they do, and who yes are pressured to go into medicine even though they are not interested</p>
<p>I personally wouldn't want an MD who became one because mommy and daddy made them</p>
<p>"some of the smartest people I know do not test well, some have LDs, some can do rap, some can write poertry, some are painters, some can build houses, some can design clothes, some can make a sad kid happy"</p>
<p>Citygirlmom's comment can't prove that Li is not the smartest.</p>
<p>It's like trying to say: becuase a lot of wealthy people are not happy, so to prove all the poor people must be all happy. The quote above has no logic. It makes me wonder where did the 1570 come from? I'm glad it was not keyed in as 1750, that'll be too obvious.</p>
<p>Well, shortcut, citymom's comment may not prove that Li is not the smartest.</p>
<p>However, what you fail to note is that it DOES prove different ways how Li can be perceived as NOT the smartest.</p>
<p>I'd venture to say, actually, that Li is one of the least smart people around, simply because he believes that a) he can get away with this lawsuit and b) he somehow was unfairly rejected from Princeton just because he had a 2400 and a high class rank.</p>
<p>does being a native hawaiian/pacific islander benefit in any way? i know being asian is a big disadvantage and other minoirity races other than asian are all benefits</p>