Liberal Arts College V.S. University

[winterbreeze]

<p>Hey, I'm accepted by both Lafayette College and Rice University under their engineering faculty, and was given financial assistance at Lafayette. Although larger universities may have better opportunities in terms of undergraduate research, I'm not sure if that added advantage is worth the 40k that I have spent every year. Plus, I may head for business school / start working once I graduate, so research might not be that important for me.</p>

<p>Confused.... </p>

<p>Any suggestions please ?? Loads of appreciation =P</p>

[vivace13]

<p>I am not familiar with Lafayette or Rice, but engineering at many LACs only offer one major: Engineering Studies (or something to that effect). This means you basically get a broad overview engineering topics and don’t necessarily major in a engineering field. </p>

<p>Depending on what you end up doing, it would be good to check the ABET accreditation, since a LAC engineering degree may not be accredited. Accreditation is necessary for some fields, Civil Eng. in particular comes to mind. Also, going to a university with a large engineering department such as rice will also offer you more choice in classes and engineering activities such as project teams.</p>

[LC82]

<p>I am not familiar with Rice, but I assure you that Lafayette College has and excellent engineering program, which includes ABET accredited majors in chemical, civil, electrical and mechanical engineering. See this link:
[Engineering[/url</a>]</p>

<p>It also offers a great opportunity for undergraduate research. See this link:
[url=<a href=“http://www.lafayette.edu/academics/excel.html]Lafayette”>http://www.lafayette.edu/academics/excel.html]Lafayette</a> College - Excel Scholars](<a href=“http://www.lafayette.edu/webdata/engineering/]Engineering[/url”>Lafayette College)</p>

<p>I suspect that research opportunities at a university may be primarily offered to grad students, wheras at Lafayette the entire focus is on the undergraduate education.</p>

[LC82]

<p>Here’s an article (linked on the LC website) that discusses the advantages of engineeing at a LAC:
<a href=“http://www.lafayette.edu/webdata/engineering/LiberalArtsEng.pdf[/url]”>http://www.lafayette.edu/webdata/engineering/LiberalArtsEng.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[G.P.Burdell]

<p>The biggest concern I would have is finding a job. A good sized school (including Rice) draws recruiters from the major companies. At an LAC, I would be worried that a company like Exxon might not show up because the program is too small to attract their attention.</p>

<p>Of course, that can be resolved with a call to the Career Services department. Ask to get a list of starting salaries, number of job offers per student, and the employers that hired engineering students over the last 3 years.</p>

[LC82]

<p>Some of that information can be found here:
[Career</a> Services](<a href=“http://ww2.lafayette.edu/~careers/grad_stats.php]Career”>http://ww2.lafayette.edu/~careers/grad_stats.php)</p>

<p>I graduated some time ago (1982), but even then there was a significant number of large companies recruiting on campus.</p>

<p>Another thing to consider is where you want to find a job after graduation. Large companies may recruit nationally; however, small to medium sized companies may limit there search to within their local or regional area. </p>

<p>For 2008 grads, here is a sample of employers that hired LC grads (some hired multiple people):
Accenture, Analyst
Bloomberg LP, Contracts/Exchanges Representative
Capgemini U.S. LLC, Consultant
Citigroup Inc., Investment Banking Financial Analyst
Clark Construction Group, LLC, Engineer
ConocoPhillips Co., Environmental Engineer
Disney Consumer Products, Intern
Exxon Mobil Corporation, Technical Sales Engineer
Foster Wheeler Ltd., Process Engineer
General Electric Co., Edison Engineer, Oil & Gas Division
GlaxoSmithKline, Continuous Improvement Engineer
IBM Corporation, SAP Consultant
Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc., Staff Engineer
Lockheed Martin Corporation, Engineering Leadership Development Program Associate
Mars, Inc., Commerical Graphics Specialist
Merck & Co., Inc., Biochemical Engineer
National Grid, Natural Gas Department Associate
Nuance Communications, Inc., Software Developer
Olympus America Inc., MSG Fellow
Phase Forward Inc. (formerly Clarix LLC), Software Test Engineer
Picatinny Arsenal, Design Engineer
Pratt & Whitney, Design Engineer
Procter & Gamble, R&D Product Researcher
Sanofi Pasteur SA, Process Technology Manager
The Babcock & Wilcox Co., Field Service Engineer
U.S. Department of Defense - Defense Information Systems Agency, Junior Mechanical Engineer
U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, Patent Examiner
URS Corporation, Junior Office Engineer
Victaulic Co., Engineer
Wachovia Corporation, Technology Associate</p>

[winterbreeze]

<p>Hi LC82, I really appreciate your imput, it certainly gives me more insight on engineering at Lafayette! I think I’m likely to reply them within these few days =)</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

[vonlost]

<p>“Although larger universities may have better opportunities in terms of undergraduate research”</p>

<p>Sometimes it’s the opposite, with grad students crowding out most undergrads at the big U. At LACs undergrads do all the research, though the labs may be smaller and with less advanced equipment.</p>

[G.P.Burdell]

<p>

Sometimes it’s the opposite, with grad students crowding out most undergrads at the big U. At LACs undergrads do all the research, though the labs may be smaller and with less advanced equipment.

</p>

<p>I disagree. At the large universities, it’s usually the professor that writes the grant proposals and develops the big idea, the grad student that develops the more defined idea and designs the experiments, and the undergraduates that carry out the experiments.</p>

<p>Then, the undergraduates follow a path: you start out with tedious lab work, after a while you’re asked to provide feedback, and after a while you’re asked to do independent work.</p>

<p>At an LAC, you don’t have such a situation, so it can be harder to find opportunity (you can’t necessarily jump in on the bottom rung). In addition, you’re usually working with less well known faculty on research that’s not on a huge grant and is less likely to make a big A publication.</p>

[mrego]

<p>Good links LC82. I should have made sure an application was sent to Lafayette, but PA has so many other colleges (CMU, Bucknell) and I always confused them with Lehigh.</p>

<p>Also glad to hear that Rice is considered a ‘good sized school’. Surprising that some of the posters haven’t at least heard of both of these schools.</p>

<p>Impressive that Lafayette publishes such useful hiring information. Makes you wonder however what some of those companies were thinking when they hired new grads for positions that ought to go to people with experience (obviously what they were thinking was: cheap labor, let our clients train them at their expense, we have no shame).</p>

<p>In any case, consider that Harvey Mudd is considered an LAC. I doubt that many area employers bypass them.</p>

<p>I’m surprised that people think the college career center is so important for finding a job. Naturally it can be a useful resource, but if you are an OOS student to begin with you can be recruited anywhere by simply emailing a resume. So why worry about employers finding you?.. just find them yourself.</p>

[MaineLonghorn]

<p>G.P. is right. I went to UT-Austin for my BS and MS. For my thesis work (mechanical properties of four formulations of expoy polymer concrete), I had several undergraduates helping me. There is SO much research going on at UT that there’s always work for undergrads.</p>

<p>The AMOUNT of research has fallen off everywhere. My dad still supervises grad students in research, and he said there’s less than he’s seen in 30 years! Kind of scary.</p>

[vonlost]

<p>I’m puzzled by the objections to “Sometimes” that I wrote. I agree in principle with G.P.'s comments, but is it guaranteed always the case? Of course not. Note that at the LACs, the undergrads do it all, and is one of the reasons that LACs that require a senior research thesis generally have a higher percentage of future PhD earners; they have already shown the PhD schools that they know how to do the necessary research.</p>

[G.P.Burdell]

<p>I wouldn’t take it to that level. I was objecting in general to the idea that LACs allow more research opportunity because of the lack of grad students. Obviously it’s a case by case basis, but when we’re using a broad brush when discussing colleges (e.g. LAC’s versus specific schools), I think we’re shooting for a majority of situations and not every specific instance.</p>

<p>

Note that at the LACs, the undergrads do it all, and is one of the reasons that LACs that require a senior research thesis generally have a higher percentage of future PhD earners

</p>

<p>There’s most likely a good bit of self-selection in that analysis. Students more interested in industry positions would more likely than not avoid a research-oriented program.</p>

[vonlost]

<p>I hope it’s clear that is precisely why I said “Sometimes.” I agree completely.</p>

<p>Self-selection is indeed another one of the reasons.</p>

<p>I think I’m beating this one to death.</p>

[PlattsburghLoser]

<p>

At LACs undergrads do all the research, though the labs may be smaller and with less advanced equipment.

</p>

<p>I can vouch for that, at least at my college. I’m doing robotics research and am practically designing and building one of the robot projects by myself. The dept. chair is supervising me, but as far as physically building and designing; it’s entirely me.</p>

<p>Also, because it is an LAC and few students here have engineering experience, I think it made it a lot easier to get accepted into the program versus at a large engineering university where I’d be competing more.</p>