Liberal Arts Colleges versus National Universities

College Search & Selection
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<p>Right; I did not insult Williams' economics by any means :) It's just hard to beat #1 since... it's number one. </p>

<p>Also many see LACs as top grad school feeders. Some people want more options and maybe would like to work right out of college or at a better option of doing so. Going off on this; LACs lack engineering/cs/business departments and lack the huge research opps that National Universities give. At University of Pittsburgh or at the University of Virginia, Ugrads are sometimes allowed to work with the medical schools researching/interning.
This also means that if you get alcohol poisoning or hurt yourself on campus you can be rushed quickly to the campus hospital. This is why I always speed and drink and drive near Johns Hopkins in Maryland. If you see me, move #<em>#@ get out the way, get out the way @#</em>#@ get out the way.</p>

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<p>touche costmart</p>

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<p>Deep down, most people choose Ivies over LACs because of name recognition. The LACs are amazing and have student bodies that are on par with the Ivy Leagues if you look at SAT scores, average GPAs, percentage of class in top ten of high school class, etc. But, most people like to get that "You go to Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Dartmouth/enterIvyhere? Wow!" And the Ivies do have fantastic educational opportunities. Also, LACs are known for being very, very small. That can be a turn off for many candidates.
I personally applied to almost all LACs and one Ivy for fun. I understood the prestige factor and sometimes wish I had at least applied to a few more Ivies. But, I am happy with where I got in and where I am going next year. It really is a personal decision but you will get a top-notch education at many of the LACs in this country.</p>

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<p>A huge part of it is your future career goals. Because you can't expect to come out of a LAC with a career in hand. LAC are usually just the stepping stones to grad schools.</p>

<p>Many choose national universities because they may be undecided if a bachelor's degree will be their terminal degree, and if it will be their terminal degree than going to Harvard or Stanford would be better for them career wise than attending Amherst or any other top LAC where in the end they'll graduate with some type of liberal art major like philosophy or women's studies(which in return you really can't do much at, at the undergrad level)</p>

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<p>liek is so off base. The national universities graduate lots of students in philosophy and women's studies. And the liberal arts colleges also graduate lots of students with degrees in economics and chemistry. The national universities are going to have pre-professional programs such as business or engineering that are not usually available at a LAC, but to make a statement that going to a LAC won't prepare you for the job market is ridiculous. Lots of students go from LACs to jobs every year.</p>

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<p>from what i heard, graduates from LACs start out with lower incomes than from national universities but they usually catch up as they gain experience and the employers see the benefit of having a well rounded individual.</p>

<p>so yes, LACs do prepare students for the job market.</p>

<p>@go-vibe, people go to colleges for different reason. If yours is to be pompous and show off to your mates and friends of family, by all means go to an IVY league school like Harvard.
I've heard about people who go to Harvard but are ashamed to tell their friends or people who ask because they are looked upon by people as "know-alls" or "you think you're better than me because you went to harvard"
I don't know how to explain it but you get my vibe. lol
Anyways, i'd rather go to a school that gives harvard quality education w/o the name (as long as graduate schools and big employers know it, it's fine) and be able to converse easily with friends from state unis w/o feeling uncomfortable.</p>

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<p>Uh, where did you hear that LAC graduates start out with lower incomes than national universities? The average income of a Williams grad straight out of the College is 35,000, reaching 55,000 in a year or two (source: Williams Prospectus).</p>

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<p>Honestly, I don't like going to a college smaller than my high school. That's just bizzare.</p>

<p>And since I have wide variety of interests, national universities are clearly better in offering greater amount of majors and courses.</p>

<p>Not to mention I hate moving around, so I'd rather stay in the same place through both my undergraduate and graduate years, than forcefully evicted. </p>

<p>And that's why I prefer national universities.</p>

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<p>Uh, williams doesn't represent all the LACs in the US does it?
maybe you should compare williams (TOP LAC) and MIT (TOP natl. uni) starting salary instead.</p>

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<p>LACs have 3-2 engineering programs, or have their own (ie. Swarthmore, Trinity, Union, etc....).</p>

<p>A good number of my prep school friends chose LACs (Williams, Amherst, Vassar, Grinnell, Colby, Davidson, Bowdoin, Occidental, Washington & Lee, Pomona, Bates, Harvey Mudd, Macalester, Claremont McKenna, Scripps, Carleton, Mt. Holyoke, Hamilton, Smith, Colgate, Bryn Mawr, Haverford, Kenyon, Wellesely, Oberlin, Trinity, Lafayette, Earlham, Wesleyan, Reed, Middlebury, Whitman, and Bard to name a few) over ivies because it had the intimate feel and they got more attention, and could do research from their first or second years.</p>

<p>Perhaps my perspective is skewed, I attended a private secondary school in the Northeast, where the top LACs are very much celebrated.</p>

<p>Some people like the atmosphere, both socially and academically, of the smaller LACs, and/or the smaller universities (eg. Johns Hopkins, Dartmouth, Tufts, WashU) because they may have gon to a big school and missed out on the personal attention in HS, or because they went to a small HS and want something big but not too large.</p>

<p>It's not about being "well-known". Only about 1/3 of the general public has any kind of college degree. I'd ask people who attended both before making blanket assertions, although I understand how difficult that can be.</p>

<p>PS--sometimes large schools may offer more courses or majors, but like anything else, an individual might not be able to get into the classes or will have to apply to the major after his or her second year, with no gurentee. Buyer beware!! :)</p>

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<p>to go-vibe: college isn’t all about prestige and ranking and brand name.</p>

<p>Learn about colleges. And by the way, stop trying to play off your ignorance by claiming your “Asian” parents have made you what you are. I have Asian parents. Yet as anyone who has done research on prestigious universities and colleges would admit, I know liberal arts colleges hold much merit.</p>

<p>Sure, Williams or Amherst won’t be much of a big help on the resume. But one day, when you apply for that job at Staples, you won’t need it.</p>

<p>Pardon me if I sound elitist, but most top liberal arts colleges (and many top uni’s as well) look for wholesome, intelligent, and intellectual kids. You are not one.</p>

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<p>My dear friend, I am Asian, too, and my parents advocate good schools, but never enforce.</p>

<p>I am not sure how old are you, but from the post I read earlier, you demonstrated great immaturity by posting so ignorantly on a public forum. </p>

<p>I’d like to point out a few things.
First, you must realize that many Asian parents don’t know good schools because there’s no Asian translation for them. For example, I am Chinese, and in Chinese, Harvard is Ha-Fo, and it’s so common term that Harvard becomes naturally associated with it. Yet other schools, like Williams, doesn’t have a corresponding Chinese name that is so popular, thus we naturally assume that if it’s not translated, it is inferior. This is false. </p>

<p>Second, even good schools are unheard. University of Chicago is rank 8 by US News, yet my grandparents have never heard of Chicago, or Cornell, for that matter. </p>

<p>Third, it’s like what everyone else had said - you need to find your own school. Searching for a school is much like marriage. The happiest marriage rarely means marrying the hottest girl, but instead, it means marrying the right girl. You have to discover a school the same way you pursue for her.</p>

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<p>You’re delusional if you think that major league employers are unclear about the quality of top shelf LACs. Although it’s true that those schools are better known by employers in the east, companies in other parts of the country, like Microsoft, Google, Apple, Coca Cola, Boeing, Ford, etc., understand completely what a degree from Amherst, Williams or Swarthmore (and 20+ others) means. Although lots of average people who went to average schools and have average jobs may not know about the best LACs, successful people all over the country do.</p>

<p>On an objective basis, Amherst, Williams and Swarthmore provide an undergraduate education that is every bit as good as the one offered by Cornell or Dartmouth. And, the kids attending those LACs, on average, have grades and scores that are comparable to those Ivies (and a couple of the others). Whether one goes to a top LAC or an Ivie should depend on a lot of considerations, but not whether a Williams degree is going to be undervalued in the job market. “Name recognition” among your peers and your relatives is meaningless; ask the Wall Street firms what they think of Williams.</p>

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<p>My D chose to apply to all small LAC’s since she wanted small class sizes and the opportunity to do research as an undergraduate. She was turned off by Dartmouth which was the only Ivy she agreed to visit because it was the smallest. Now she gets to decide between Williams, Swat, Davidson, Haverford, and Smith. All schools she’ll be happier at than an Ivy.</p>

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<p>Let us reiterate …</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Everyone wants to go to a top national university</p></li>
<li><p>no one wants to go to a top liberal arts college</p></li>
<li><p>every single person in the world knows what Harvard University is</p></li>
<li><p>Your parents haven’t heard of Williams college, therefore it isn’t any good.</p></li>
<li><p>99% of the world hasn’t heard of Williams.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I hope you are a ■■■■■ because if you are an aspiring college student and you make these kinds of sweeping and generalizations that can’t be substantiated in a college paper you will flunk out.</p>

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<p>Look at post #15. This thread is a poor attempt at sarcasm, nothing more.</p>

<p>As you were.</p>

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<p>In go-vibe’s defense, I’m Asian and my father is a Research Professor in the States who has never heard of Williams or Amherst or even the phrase “Liberal Arts College” </p>

<p>Of course, he never had to worry about getting an undergrad degree in America, and presumably go-vibe does, so that’s not a fair comparison. </p>

<p>And 99% of the world is actually a reasonable assumption, considering that only 5% of the world is American, and presumably less than 10% of Americans have heard of Williams. </p>

<p>That said, it seems quite idiotic to think that just because everybody has heard of the emperor’s new clothes, the emperor must have the world’s best clothes. </p>

<p>You might as well say IBM is better than Alienware, because “everybody” has heard of it, or you “must” choose being a brain surgeon over a foot doctor, because it’s more prestigious. </p>

<p>I’m in my senior year, and I probably won’t apply to Harvard, because frankly their Creative Writing program seems to be abysmal compared to many other colleges.
(Not that I’m arrogant enough to say that I would get in Harvard if I did apply, but still)</p>

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<p>Most National Universities like Duke and Stanford get a lot of publicity from top Div1 sports programs while Williams and Amherst are Div3. A select few good LAC’s compete in Div1 at a smaller scale are Davidson, Holy Cross, Bucknell.</p>

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<p>par72,</p>

<p>All the Patriot League schools are fine institutions, not just those you always mention.</p>

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<p>I think the difference between NU and LACS is “Research”. People know a school if it is a research powerhouse.</p>