<p>How good are upenn’s life science programs/departments for underguates? I know upenn has the vagelos program, which is really good, but since im going premed…i don’t want my gpa to be low…which it probably will given the rigor of the program. So, how good are upenn’s bio, molecular bio, neurobio, everything-bio programs? </p>
<p>Also, how does upenn’s life sciences stack up against the other ivies, specifically princeton, yale, and brown, and also stanford (yes i know it’s not an ivy)?</p>
<p>here are rankings of each department's respective PhD programs</p>
<p><a href="http://www.phds.org/rankings/%5B/url%5D">http://www.phds.org/rankings/</a></p>
<p>click on a subject, choose the "sample rankings"... alternatively, you can play around with settings such as "the scholarly quality of faculty"</p>
<p>yes i know that when u chose an undergrad science program, you would probably follow different criteria than PhD programs. however, these rankings should give you a very "rough" sense of how life science (and other departments at penn) stack up with their counterparts in other universities.</p>
<p>Department rankings for undergrad means nothing. The fact that Penn is an Ivy means that all it's departments are pretty good and no matter what you study you will get a good education and have pretty good job prospects upon graduation (assuming you get decent grades). </p>
<p>Penn is very good for premeds, but less in the strength of it's biology department, but more in it's advising, research opportunities, and other factors that allow it to have many premed students gain admission to med schools (and form what I see on the premed threads, Penn, Stanford, and Duke students are able to get into med schools with lower GPAs than the national average).</p>
<p>indeed i agree</p>
<p>I went to Penn way back when and can offer some perspective.</p>
<ol>
<li> The classes are likely the same at almost every school, Ivy or not (the quality of the students may vary)</li>
<li> The rank of the graduate program has very little impact, if any, on you.</li>
<li> The number of opportunities at Penn for research is far superior than almost every school except perhaps Harvard and maybe Yale (considering only Ivy's). All of the professional schools have research programs and there are so many labs to choose from. The best thing is that you do not need to be a 4.0 student to get the opportunity. Lab experience is the key to getting into a good Ph.D. program.</li>
<li> There are multiple opportunities for medical volunteer work, a key to getting into medical school. The research makes more of a difference at the top schools.</li>
<li> How well you do in the classes is more important than the school.</li>
</ol>
<p>This is based on my experience as a Ph.D. and faculty and having served on admissions committees for both graduate school and medical school.</p>
<p>Please don't cause extra work for the moderators. If you want to have a discussion of the merits of India vs. China, start a thread about it.</p>
<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>I agree with Sparky regarding UPenn's research opportunities. This was quite evident at the time of filling up forms for admissions.
I think UPenn was the only school that asked applicants to write about who you would like to conduct research with.......something to this effect. I recall my Son mention this when he was filling up UPenn forms.</p>
<p>I don't think any other schools asked you a reseach based question for undergrad admissions. To me, this implied that UPenn underscores research activities even during Undergrad years. A big plus for premeds.</p>
<p>I have not researched UPenn's Bio dept myself.......but do bear in mind that in this era, Biology no longer has a well defined, circumscribed boundary. Departments such as Genetics, Physiology, Cellular Pharmacology, or Cell Biology, Neuroscience, Biophysical and Biochemical Sciences, Bioinformatics are also integral to today's "Biology". For a PreMed student, being able to take electives from these departments could provide a superb background.</p>
<p>Additionally, don't forget that UPenn is located very close to the oldest school of Pharmacy, Philadephia School of Pharmacy. One could potentially take electives in Pharmaceutics, Medicinal chemistry, and Pharmacology from PSP as well......which I think is a HUGE plus for UPenn. </p>
<p>I will not even mention UPenn's proximity to MCP Hanneman or Drexel.</p>
<p>To me, UPenn is as good as Columbia for Premeds. Just think about the opportunities premed students can have to enhance your learning by extending and continuing your education even outside the boundaries of UPenn. </p>
<p>Columbia kids get to listen to top researchers for free (with student membership of $35 annual membership) at any/and all presentations and discussion sessions at NY Academy of Sciences. I am sure that UPenn must have its equivalent of NYAS. Check into this on-line.</p>
<p>In other words, please don't limit yourself to one single dept. Be creative and passionate about your field of interest, seek and seize every opportunity you can get to exponentially enhance your knowledge, not just within the boundaries of UPenn but also through UPenn's collaborations with other schools within its vicinity.</p>
<p>Penn is a great place to be studying science. I am a biophysics/biochemistry double major so I will tell you a little about my experience.</p>
<p>As already mentioned, all undergraduates (whether science majors or not) have excellent opportunities to work in labs. There are over 600 labs that take undergrads and if you can't find one that studies what you are interested in, the Center for Undergraduate Research Fellowships (CURF) is very generous with granting money for legit projects. Penn makes it easy and encourages all students (no matter what major) to do some sort of research in their four years. A year of research in a university lab is actually REQUIRED for all biochemistry majors. Many do more than one year. Most faculty are very excited to talk about their work and involve undergrads in their projects.</p>
<p>One thing I really like about Penn, across the university not just in the sciences, is the interdisciplinary approach. Not many schools offer subjects like biophysics as undergrad majors, but in science today, one must really have a good working knowledge of all of the sciences (and mathematics) to do work. Penn really gives you this important broad background.</p>
<p>Regarding listening to speakers, each department holds weekly or biweekly colloquia where they invite faculty members from Penn and all over the world to discuss their research with faculty and students. I have been to a number of these. Some go right over my head, but others are really great. All of the departments open these up to undergrads. It is actually the undergrad biochem majors that are responsible for arranging the biochem colloquia for the entire chemistry department.</p>
<p>One more thing to keep in mind is that Penn's med school and its associated laboratories are across the streetfrom the main campus while at Columbia you have to take the #1 train uptown about 1/2 an hour to get to the med school and labs.</p>
<p>The same is true of Harvard. The Medical School and associated labs are a 30 minute train ride away from the undergrad campus. </p>
<p>I'm also planning on majoring in Biochem or another science, and Penn is one of my top choices. Could someone who is currently a science major at Penn describe some of their research experiences?</p>
<p>well thats good
cuz someone told me that its difficult getting science research positions when you're not a science major.</p>
<p>is it common for freshmen to gain these positions?</p>
<p>I know a number of freshmen working in labs most of whom at no prior experience.</p>
<p>same with Cornell too, except the med school is a good 3-4 hours away on the other side of the state...</p>
<p>i've heard that professors prefer science/engineering majors. i'm hoping to get a bioengineering research position either in the engineering or medical schools. however, i've been hearing that you need to wash beakers and do small technical jobs for a semester or two before you can engage in some of the more cutting-edge work (i'm not saying that's a bad thing... it's probably a great way to familiarize yourself with your lab)</p>
<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>Regarding research breaks that a freshman gets at schools - One has to be a bit careful in selecting your research mentors. If you select elite top tier, preeminent researchers as your mentors, as a freshman you can get pretty lost in their labs. Top tier researchers have loads of postdocs and PhD students. You are likely to be given low end chores such as glassware washing for a start.</p>
<p>However, if you select someone who is not totally established in the dept, not yet tenured, they are more likely to have the time to train you and get you to work on Projects earlier.</p>
<p>Therefore, I would suggest that you read up who's who and find out how many postdocs and PhD track students these faculty members have, and also factor in - how much they travel. The big name faculty members are constantly travelling to make presentations to various associations. </p>
<p>One is generally better off selecting someone who is not the top tier, key opinion leader in the field if you would like to have some direct mentoring.</p>