<p>So I'm debating between a number of schools to major in music at. Some are arts schools, others not. Were I to go to a non-arts school, the tenative plan would be to study to become a teacher along with studying music. I am not particularly in love with the idea of teaching, but it intuitively strikes me as a much more practical plan (and I mean that in the sense of insuring a job with the degree) than simply majoring in music alone.
That is precisely my question. Were I to major in music without being certified as a teacher, exactly what opportunities would be availalable to me job-wise?
Thanks for your time.</p>
<p>Teaching as “Plan B” is a common theme here. We thought that would be the smart route for our DD, to double-major in Vocal Performance and MusicEd. We had our minds changed most convincingly after our first round of college visits. </p>
<p>First of all, keep in mind that this double-major will necessitate at least an extra semester of studies – and, depending on where you go, as much as 6 years total. Both majors are extremely time intensive, so you run the risk of not doing justice to either course of study. Also, college admissions officers and faculty take great offense at having MusicEd viewed as a “Plan B”, and they will sniff your degree of (non)passion out after the first interview question. </p>
<p>We were told it makes just as much financial and time sense to get your undergraduate degree in performance, then return to get your Master’s in MusicEd. With a few years under your belt, you may find yourself more interested in Music Ed. The Master’s is considered a more marketable education degree than a bachelor’s. As a grad student, you may qualify for reduced tuition – so it may be more cost-effective. </p>
<p>If your primary concern is immediate employment, reconcile yourself to a full concentration in MusicEd, and make sure you will be able to project enthusiasm in application essays and in interviews. If you think you have even an ice cube’s chance of making it as a performer – and/or that’s where your true passion lies – get your bachelor’s in music performance, and give it your full concentration for 4 years.</p>
<p>Violadad is the link master, but since I may be stuck at home today (Atlanta has lots of flooding - horrible storms last night), I’ll toss a few your direction:</p>
<p>The place to start:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html?highlight=music[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html?highlight=music</a></p>
<p>VicAria is right - music ed is a popular topic here. The general consensus is that it should NOT be a back-up plan - leave teaching for those who have the heart and soul for it. The third post on this thread has lots of links courtesy of violadad:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/780119-music-education.html?highlight=music[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/780119-music-education.html?highlight=music</a></p>
<p>What else can you do with a music degree? </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html?highlight=music+degree+careers[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html?highlight=music+degree+careers</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/136785-music-major-jobs.html?highlight=music+degree+careers[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/136785-music-major-jobs.html?highlight=music+degree+careers</a></p>
<p>VicAria - I love you. Seriously.
Here’s why - this is exactly the thought process we’ve been going through. The teachers at her HS think I’m being indulgent, and the responsible parent would “make” her do music ed.<br>
I think I’ve finally gotten at least the choral director to realize that she’s much better off throwing herself at this completely. She’s not averse to teaching, but her passion is singing, pure and simple. She’ll know by her senior year if her voice isn’t developing into what she thinks it should and can make decisions at that time.<br>
It is very comforting and validating to hear our thought process spelled out by someone else. Thank you!</p>
<p>It’s these threads that often just get me shaking my head. We know virtually nothing about the OP and yet very definitive statements are made.</p>
<p>AFAIC, a double degree does not necessitate extra semesters. At least four schools we visited/auditioned at told us that based on my son’s transferable college credits from HS (which ran from 26 - 35) and his performance proficiency level, finishing in 4 years (and twice less) was very doable. He’s taking 19 credits his first semester and his performance prof has him on an advanced performance schedule. To get him ready to be able to work his six months of student teaching without that interfering with his grad dates. Actually, the odds are than in his senior year he will be able to begin taking Masters classes. It really depends on the student, the flexibility of the program and whether your profs are willing to work with you. </p>
<p>Too, be aware that there are schools that WILL NOT allow the double major right off the bat. You start at one or the other and apply to add the second major after a term or two depending on the school.</p>
<p>There are also 5 year combined BM/MME programs out there though I don’t have the list in front of me. Perhaps Oberlin and Indiana as those are the two that are popping into my head. You would have to apply mid stream during your BM (again this is from memory).</p>
<p>Pick your schools and TALK to the music ed and performance profs as well as the respective department heads.</p>
<p>One thought, that has been in probably 10,000 links in here, is what a music ed degree is for. As others have pointed out, you don’t necessarily need that degree to teach, that as far as I know is to allow the person to teach in the public schools (and maybe some private schools require it as well). Most of the private teachers in music I have run into, either in programs or with private students (or both) have performance degrees. </p>
<p>I also will add that sadly, thinking that a music ed degree would be a practical backup to trying to be a performing musician alone, may take some thought. So many school districts have cut out music education, instrumental and otherwise, or cut down on the programs they offer (such as music and arts teachers coming in ‘part time’), that it may not be such a sure backup, from what I hear arts and music programs have been so decimated that any open spots are filled by experienced teachers who lost their positions elsewhere. Hopefully if/when the economy improves, and school budgets aren’t so strained (which they were even before the current mess) this will reverse, but it is something to think about when planning alternatives.</p>
<p>And once again I beg you, if you do not LOVE teaching children do not do music ed for the a “backup.” Do it because that is what you want to do. Bitter teachers who did not make it in performance do more harm in the system. It is not fair to the kids. So maybe they have a job, but what about the kids? Voice of experience here. </p>
<p>Also, if you really want to perform, why divert your attention? Music ed prepares you to teach in K-12. Music Performance prepares you to perform. Music ed will have you taking many more non-music classes for the education part of the degree. Will you be able to achieve the level of performance you want in that case? Only you and the school you choose can answer that. </p>
<p>Concur with above that the schools are hiring masters degree teachers now, in all kinds of subjects. . Bachelor degree only are having a harder time.</p>
<p>To add on to Singersmom’s thought, college-level music teachers generally seem to have performance degrees and a surprising number of them don’t have doctorates.</p>
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<p>Ask for attrition rate of those who matriculate as a dual major, and actuality complete it within the allotted time, be it 4 or 5 years. </p>
<p>And if at all possible, try and talk to students who might be in dual per/ed majors, or any dual pursuit, and at varying credit levels. These are your best sources of actual ease or stress levels within each program at a particular school. </p>
<p>You also need to compare BA vs BM degree requirements and recommended course schedules if you do decide on a music ed pursuit. A sequence glitch can WELL add time even if “most” complete a dual pursuit in four years at a particular school.</p>
<p>As a retired teacher, a mom of 3-one of whom is currently a VP major- and long time musician, I roundly second Singersmom07. Education as a vocation should never, ever be anyone’s " back-up plan". Our kids are our most valuable national assets and treasures and anyone teaching them should want to do that above all else.Granted, my observations were somewhat colored by the fact that most of the time, I was teaching in the very poorest, most crime-ridden areas of the city. I can’t tell you how many hours I have spent with my classroom door closed and trying to keep my students engaged above the angry yelling from a room across the hall.Teachers who didn’t want to be there, who were “stuck” because they needed the paycheck to handle the rent and the payment on that SUV, would take out their frustration on the kids. I will be the first to tell you that kids can drive you nuts, no doubt about it, and if you’re having a bad day, they can sense it and the feeding frenzy commences! Teaching is NOT like a Hallmark commercial, where you gaze through a misty haze of tears at a sentimental card given to you by a cute little tyke in braids and mary-janes. Now, it’s more likely to be a rude gesture directed right at you in defiance when you ask for their attention! But, those kids remember you, and you do touch a few and make a difference in their lives, and no youngester anywhere, in any school in any subject, deserves anything less than a teacher who wants to be there and who wants to ensure that they get the very best possible education. Nothing’s a sure bet today, science and math teachers are being laid off and meeting their counterparts from the music and art departments at the unemployment office! And don9992 is quite correct when he states that music teachers at the college level aren’t there with education degrees- although some have them from the undergrad years and picked up the performance degree in grad school.
OP, I am not picking on you, I just spotted an opportunity to expound on one of my favorite topics! Seriously, take a few nights and hit any performance venues, clubs,etc, in your area (I’m talking about Jazz-type venues). Talk to the musicians who are playing and see where they have been. Did they major in music, what type of degree do they have? I’ve actually done this, so I can attest that some people may look at you oddly, but it’s a great way to garner information!</p>
<p>Thank you all very much for your responses. I do very much tend to agree with the idea of avoiding teaching K-12 unless there’s a passion for it (though I think it might be quite alright at a college level). I have simply considered this primarily as an option because I’m nearly completely ignorant of what options are available to someone who graduates simply as a vocal performance major other than individual teaching (or potentially college level) or professional choirs and such. Now I did check out some of the links you offered binx, and much appreciated. I found a lot of people saying “I know this music performance major who did this job”, etc; I guess what I’m really looking for, and perhaps it’s not simply so easy, is for suggestions as to “”“”“concrete”“”“” opportunities a degree as a music performance vocal major would open up for someone. I do realize there’s many more “creative” paths to be found with the great deal of music knowledge and training such a degree would provide- what I’m interested in, I suppose, is specific opportunities that a vocal performance major would have BECAUSE of their degree that someone who doesn’t have the degree and knows a lot about music would not have.</p>
<p>A little back up info on my particular scenerio very simply speaking- I’m a rather passionate singer/songwriter. My intention as a music major would be twofold- (1.) To increase my overall knowledge of music and abilities therein, to have a thurough understanding of the artform and what is artistically available to me and (2.) to provide myself with a sort of “Plan B” assuming my singing/songwriting gets me nowhere in the harsh world that is the music buisness. Obviously if a degree in music does not offer me any more job opportunity and security whatsoever “plan B” speaking than would simply not having the degree, I will consider other options for my college education and will pursue music education through extensive private lessons, etc. on the side.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone. :-)</p>
<p>“Concrete” career paths in music is kind of an oxymoron …</p>
<p>Adding to what I learned in your other thread, what I could recommend is that you look at undergraduate jazz/contemporary vocal performance degrees that have ARRANGING as a big component of their curriculum. A lot of grads of UNT (University of North Texas) and Western Michigan do okay for themselves because they write and arrange not only foer themselves, but for others, choruses, etc. Both those programs pput a big emphasis on arranging.</p>
<p>Plus expertise in arranging would be only a plus if you went back for a Master’s in MusicEd.</p>
<p>Don is correct, to teach at a college level you don’t need to have a music ed degree, nor do I think I have ever seen one who did (doesn’t mean there aren’t, just haven’t seen one). Most of the teachers at college or college prep programs tend to have degrees in music performance, these days many at a masters level (with instrumental music, as opposed to academic subjects, Phd’s are not an absolute as they are in most programs I have seen, if you want to be a professor). Many of them are people who made names as performers, then moved into the academic side of things when they retired, or teach and perform. </p>
<p>I agree totally, that unless someone really has a passion for teaching, don’t get a music ed degree as a backup. It reminds me of the kids who go into music performance, who see being a star soloist as the only thing for them, disdain orchestra and chamber music for ‘failed soloists’, and many of them, if they end up ‘only being ensemble players’, end up as the ones you look at on stage and think “what they heck did they go into music for?”. Especially given the tough time music teachers have these days, you have to be passionate for it, like performing it is a rough road, and to do so without passion is a means to fail I suspect. I also have experienced people teaching ‘as a fallback’ and while I have nothing but respect for good teachers, there was nothing worse IMO…</p>
<p>Yeah, people look at us as if we are crazy for supporting DD’s performance major and not making her do music ed as more practical. She does not like children that much. Why on earth would we have her do music ed? We believe she needs to devote herself to this pursuit and then if she changes her mind or she does not make it, she will have given it her best shot. Besides, she still has a bachelor’s degree from a good school. She can do with it anything anyone with a liberal arts degree could.</p>
<p>Singersmom-
All I could think of when you said your daughter didn’t like children or the thought of teaching was in the Harry Potter movie “The order of the Phoenix”, when the evil character of Delores Umbridge tells the heroes “I really hate children”, when she was there as a teacher <em>lol</em></p>
<p>I can understand people wanting their kids to have a fallback or a plan b in case performance doesn’t work out, but like you were saying, we think our son will be okay with performance, no matter what he does. Frankly, there are a heck of a lot of people out there who studied ancient languages in college, and ended up as investment bankers or whatever…I think one of the problems is that most people see arts training as ‘non practical’, and they don’t realize that the discipline and the study that goes along with performance studies (specifically music theory, solfege) is as much a mental discipline as an artistic one, and that can help them be more focused if they do shift gears then kids who might have gone the standard academic route.</p>
<p>“She can do with it anything anyone with a liberal arts degree could.”</p>
<p>What exactly might some of those opportunities be? Assume I’m completely ignorant, haha. One of the questions I’m really asking myself right now if I’m to truly commit myself fully to music is what the benefit would be of paying quite an extensive amount of money for a college education versus simply taking music classes on my own time and not worrying about the degree side of things… That is, if the degree itself doesn’t give much benefit other than potentially college teaching (or on a slim chance a sort of professional choir) as seems to be the general consensus. I hear often that I’ll be better off to have a degree, but I know nothing other than above mentioned of exactly what benefits a music degree would get me job-wise over simply not having one. Obviously if there are clear benefits to the degree than I will go that path.
Assuming there are clear job benefits, I would follow that question with whether it would make a difference to be a music major at a normal institution or at an arts school as far as jobs go- thanks!</p>
<p>BornMan –</p>
<p>One good, fatalistic piece of advice I remember reading somewhere on this board is if you can picture yourself doing anything else but music for a career – take a college path that orients you for that career instead.
If you are not completely passionate about music – if that’s all you can envision yourself doing for a living – you may not have the drive to compete in a very competitive, very skills-oriented, very frustrating field. </p>
<p>So, that is why some advise just going to college for college’s sake, and look for music as a minor or an extra-curricular activity. I would recommend looking at the LACs on the website, “Colleges that Change Lives” ([Colleges</a> That Change Lives](<a href=“http://www.ctcl.org%5DColleges”>http://www.ctcl.org)). You sound like the type of student for whome the right class and right professor could influence your future greatly (and I don’t mean that in a bad way).</p>
<p>BornMan
For many companies and employers a bachelors degree in something is all they really care about. I looked at the survey Rice did a couple of years ago of the students graduating. About half the music graduates reported what they were doing after graduation. Of those, several were going into jobs at various businesses from insurance to advertising. Most were going to some kind of graduate school. About half to music grad school, several to law school, and a few in other graduate programs. </p>
<p>You are only limited by your imagination and drive. And as others have said, if you can see yourself doing anything else do it. DD does not at this point. We support her pursuit. She loves the study of music and language, beyond just singing. And that is key right now. Friends of hers that only liked to sing, dropped out of music when they found out how much more there was to music performance major than that.</p>
<p>“One good, fatalistic piece of advice I remember reading somewhere on this board is if you can picture yourself doing anything else but music for a career – take a college path that orients you for that career instead.
If you are not completely passionate about music – if that’s all you can envision yourself doing for a living – you may not have the drive to compete in a very competitive, very skills-oriented, very frustrating field.”</p>
<p>Thanks, VicAria. Based on my research and understanding I do tend to agree with this bit of advice- I currently feel at the point where I could not “envision” myself doing anything else, or at least, that I would regret it were I not to give music a shot. What I meant moreso by what I said was that if there were no sense in getting a music degree job-wise as opposed to not having a college degree alltogether, than it might seem more practical to me to simply take music classes and pursue my personal music education on my own, still keeping it as a priority, and put the money of college towards something relitively painless that will “pay the bills”- working on this perhaps slowly as to not divert the attention away from music. But SingersMom07 sort of answered that question for me- it seems the bachelors degree itself does provide those benefits I was referring to, so I will stick with this path for now.</p>
<p>“Of those, several were going into jobs at various businesses from insurance to advertising.”
Thanks a lot singersmom07.
Maybe you could help me out then with another quick following question. A large part of my debate in searching for a music school has to do with the idea of going to an “arts school” for music, versus the standard music education at, say, Western Michigan (I’m for the most part not interested in conservatories).
As far as these jobs go that only really entail a bachlor’s degree… would it make a difference if this degree was from an arts school or from a standard school?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>I do not know what you mean by an “arts school” if you do not mean a conservatory. Can you list schools you feel fit that category?</p>
<p>After auditions and visits, DD decided she did not want a stand-alone conservatory but wanted one connected to a university so she could get the conservatory education and the university one, too. Different solutions for different folks.</p>