<p>The only system I understand is the Ivies with their likely letters...and NESCAC where there are no likely letters so you have to trust the coach's "support" for you and hope you get in.</p>
<p>What other systems are there? How do you know you won't be left out in the cold by admissions even when the coach is encouraging? I know likely letters are not a guarantee, but I am a little spooked by NESCAC because some of those schools seem to be a bit "quirky" when it comes to admission.</p>
<p>I was wondering about the NEWMAC conference (MIT, Wellesley, Mt. Holyoke, Smith, etc.) and Patriot League (Colgate, Army, etc.), for example. There are some coaches who have reached out to my d from those conferences and I don't know how much their support means in terms of admissions. It's a little hard to ask...doesn't it depend on how much the school supports that sport, and what the conference agreement is?</p>
<p>Yes, I get that it’s not a sure thing, even with the likely letters from the Ivies. My d is a great student with a 3.99 uw average. But I know lots of kids with great stats who didn’t get into top LACs. I kind of think if you are asking a recruited athlete with impeccable academic credentials to commit to applying ED and to turn down offers elsewhere, some certainty would be helpful. Can you tell I am not an adrenaline junkie? I have to admit I would subtly encourage my d to go for the school that is giving her a better guarantee.</p>
<p>Well, at a very well known LAC that was tops in that sport, the coach told us that many potential recruits go to ivies because he cannot offer the same level of assurance. (Going the LL route is a lot safer because it can be issued early enough to still make ED deadlines at other schools, just in case the LL does not come through.)
On the other hand, some LACs have a very strong record of getting their recruits admitted. Rumor has it that there are some to LACs that offer the equivalent of a LL.</p>
<p>I wish I had more info on which schools or conferences offered likely letters. We are looking at a couple of Ivies but they are not d’s top choices, and the schools that have approached my d are mostly div I…probably easier to get into and might offer some financial help but by the time we wait for the ED result those may be gone. Just trying to see what else is out there so we can balance the risk, so to speak…</p>
<p>Lives,
My daughter looked at schools in a number of conferences, mostly D3, but also Patriot League Schools. She was a stronger student than she is an athlete and we wanted the ability to weigh merit offers (which ultimately, we turned down) so she was not looking to commit early and apply ED. She was up front that she was not going to apply ED. She applied to 9 schools, all selective and very selective LACs for the most part. While the coaches may prefer you apply ED–because they want to know who they are getting–they all continued to support her application at some level. She was admitted to every school she applied to, and I think this was a combination of being a NMF and having a coach asking for her. There are plenty of kids with the same academic stats, but the coach support is definitely a tipping point.
If your daughter has test scores that reflect her gpa, she should be fine.</p>
<p>minoafrau, thanks for sharing your experience. Is there a risk when you decline to go the ED route? will the coaches put their support behind someone else because of it?</p>
<p>we were also wondering about how to accommodate the financial factor…hoping that the div I and other schools that offer merit aid would clarify what they are offering early. I know you can get a pre-read on financial aid at the schools with need-based aid, but would like to have all the different options in front of us before d decides.</p>
<p>I’m sure there is and this may not be possible depending on the sport. We specifically asked each coach. The Colgate coach was the most insistent about ED, but that school was far enough down her list to risk it. I’m not sure whether he supported her application in admissions at all, but she got in. I always felt that if she somehow didn’t get into to any of the places she preferred, he would have taken her as a walk on.</p>
<p>LivesinHobbiton Obviously it depends upon how “hot” a hand you have to play. However, with schools that have ED or SCEA the coach doesn’t want to use a tip on someone he or she isn’t sure wants to commit. The stronger the candidate the more flexible they will be, but at top NESCAC schools all but one or two slots will be used in the ED round for swimming for example. So there is a chance of a slot at RD but it is much harder.</p>
<p>I am going through the exact same thing with my S right now. I would not apply ED because it really limits your options if you do not like the fin aid or merit aid package. Basically what I have concluded is that this process boils down to supply and demand. How attractive is your D to the coaches from a recruit standpoint? what is your competition in this years recruiting class? How competitive is she with the regular students that are applying for admission? The more attractive she is, the more the coach wants you. You should also talk to a lot of schools. every school is different every year. The more schools you look at, the better your chances. finally, the coaches are human - stay in touch with them. Let them know you want to go to that school; develop a relationship with the coaches. They all want good kids that will perform for them over 4 years. They want to reduce the risk that they will recruit a dud. </p>
<p>If you put yourself in the best position possible, it will all work out in the end.</p>
<p>thanks for the great tips…this is all so difficult.</p>
<p>I think my d would prefer to get it over with and go the ED route. Her top choices are probably nescac schools right now, so that probably is necessary anyway, etondad?</p>
<p>to be blunt, she doesn’t have a lot of extracurriculars because she is training, training, training all the time and trying to keep those grades up. I keep looking at the typical accepted student at these schools and I am seeing simply amazing resumes. my d just trains and trains, does some volunteer work every week, has a couple of minor hobbies–basically, her resume looks very thin compared to these amazing students. I know student athletes, especially with excellent grades, are a different sort of high-quality student, but I would like to know which schools actually value that. It seems some schools do and some don’t…maybe it has to do with the “culture” of the school, I don’t know.</p>
<p>So while my d would be at or near the top of some of these teams, I don’t know if the admissions people really care about that. And there are schools beyond nescac, so we could do more investigating if we knew where to look.</p>
<p>If she knows she wants to go to a NESCAC school and she and the coach have come to a meeting of the minds, your D’s chances of getting a “slot” (the terms change for different schools) will increase if she makes it clear that she will willing to go ED. At Williams, the coach will ask her to submit to him/her the academic record which --again, only if they are very seriously interested-- bring over to the Ad Com to get a preliminary reading. If that reading is favorable then the serious discussions between coach and the possible recruit happens. While by going ED there is less “negotiating” as one would have if one was sitting on a pile of thick envelopes, the chances of being recruited are much much higher if she is willing to tell the coach she is willing to go ED. Once she does, if it is like with our D, the coach makes another check with Ad Com and if all is good, tells her to apply ED. Now NESCAC written policy is that the coach can NOT make an offer of admission–that can only come from the Ad Com to the applicant–so there exists always the possibility between the time of the ED application and the ED decision day that something could go wrong. However, such instances are rare and if they happen with any frequency with a particular coach/college, the word gets around very very quickly. And that means that that coach’s/school’s ability to recruit is basically finished, thus it is in the coach’s interest (both because they want the people they recruit) and for their reputation that such mishaps do not happen.
Frankly, if she wants D3 and an excellent athletic and academic experience there are few schools outside of NESCAC that provide both (some are as good academically–UChi, Pomona, MIT, are also superb of course; some as good athletically --Kenyon or Dennison in swimming, for example)–but for the combination NESCAC is hard to beat. Also there is a great deal of pride within the Conference that makes intra-conference meets exciting and fun for the kids and the fans.</p>
<p>If she will be among the top performers on the team, the coach really wants her, and she is academically acceptable, her other extracurriculars (or lack thereof) largely won’t matter.</p>
<p>We are involved in a a similar process with my D with nescac. She is a junior. I think you need to go ED or you really lose the coach’s support. But you need to have a favorite school.Hopefully, if you start the process early enough, the d/s should have an idea of their best fit school. </p>
<p>In regards to your post about evaluating merit/scholarship from each school. I think that is easier if you are dealing with schools in the same league-nescac etc… But D-1 and D-3 have different time tables depending on athletic ability.</p>
<p>For NESCAC, if you get the coach to do the “walk-thru” and he tells you it is “favorable” you have an 80% or higher chance w/ED. Many similar schools have ED2 as well, so if you get “mislead” by school number 1, you are still in the game. Just have your child be honest but not burn their bridges-as in “School X is my first choice, but if things don’t work out…”
That is what saved my S when his walk-thru-which we had to pressure the coach to do for about 3 weeks-(note if for some reason admissions “can’t do” a walk-thru, that is a bad sign) was “not favorable”.
Most students who are asking the hard questions and keeping their options open do NOT get disappointed in the end.
Just be sure to be clear that your child will not be hitting the ED send button til you have an answer about the “walk-thru” The coaches get a little optimistic sometimes, it’s easy for them.
They can get a small number of their candidates a “slot” vs a “tip” but the number of “slots” is small, for example at Amherst 4 slots total a year for mens and womens swimming.There are usually about 28 recruits a year, so the other 24 have “tips”, which means their stats have to be stellar.</p>
<p>Etondad – I am generally against ED, simply because from what I have heard, there is no way to “pre-read” the aid package. However, I do not have a definative answer on that. Can the coach get you a “pre-read” on admission and aid? I think it would be very unfortunate to go the whole ED route, get admitted, but then turn down the school because they have determined that your EFC is higher than what you think you can afford.</p>
<p>xwords, I have heard that you can get a pre-read on financial aid. I believe there is another thread right now where someone says that…</p>
<p>it seems the consensus is that for nescac at least, and possibly for other LACs, the coaches will ask for an ED type of commitment because they don’t have many “slots” to give away. my d is willing to run the risk if the coach seems honest. She has two nescac favorites right now, and will be visiting a few others in June, but I think the two she likes right now will continue to be the favorites. both coaches seem very straightforward, not the sort to play games.</p>
<p>so as far as strategy goes, what does it mean when a coach contacts you and is very enthusiastic about you, but you are at a higher level than his team? does that mean the coach is trying to build up the team or maybe has gotten new support from the administration to do so? and how does one tactfully get this information out of the coach, LOL? basically, my d’s other favorite choice right now is a really fabulous LAC where it is difficult to get admitted, but she has been contacted repeatedly by a very nice, very enthusiastic coach…and the team there just isn’t good. if she goes there, it is for the academics and the school. but i have to say that when i look at the performance of this team, i am wondering WHY they contacted my d, because she is such a mismatch for them. if the coach is offering an admissions assist that is a REAL assist, then I understand. but how do I find out?</p>
<p>and edited to add: this is NOT a nescac school…in a much weaker conference all around.</p>
<p>My D was courted by a very top academic school that isn’t athletically in the NESCAC league–it was clear that the coach wanted to use my D (and maybe some others in this year’s class-- I have no idea…) to spring-board his team to a much higher echelon – but as much as she loved the academics of this school, she didn’t want to be the “rabbit” on a team that wasn’t going to be nationally competitive. </p>
<p>I would bet LivesinHobbiton that he is hoping that she would be willing to come to the school bc the academics are so top tier–and yes, at least in the case of the school that was courting my D, Admissions made it clear that they would pre-screen applications and give green or red lights (as Ivies do) before she formally applied…so the school wants to enhance their sports presence.</p>
<p>I would be very frank as to the financial aid piece and ask straight up if FA can also do a pre-read before ED. Especially, if you let the coach know that the FA issue is the only things standing between an ED commit and not.</p>
<p>I am so very appreciative of all this information and help…THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. I hope I can be half as helpful to someone else a year from now when this is all over.</p>
<p>I will recommend to d that she consider ED if she feels the coach is being straight with her…oldbatesiedoc, I will urge her to ask the hard questions, because I don’t think for a minute that being a recruit will make up totally for the admissions rat race that is out there. she won’t be going ED unless she gets very solid reassurance that admissions has already looked at her application and doesn’t have a problem with it. I will also look to see who has EDII, I hadn’t focused on that at all. And she will keep open communications with all the schools she likes, just in case her top choice doesn’t work out.</p>
<p>And we will explore this other conference where the athletics seem to be at a lower level but the school and coach seem wonderful. Coach has already asked for her summer schedule so he can come watch her…I thought that was great. If this school could extend admissions help and eliminate some worry, I think she would definitely consider going there if nescac doesn’t seem to be working out for some reason.</p>
I have to admit I would subtly encourage my d to go for the school that is giving her a better guarantee.</p>