<p>Dear Parents, I have a sensitive question and I know that it may cause some polemic.</p>
<p>I did some search on this thread and I found some old posts saying that a student with not so great stats went to a reach school and graduated Suma Cum Laude. Therefore, students should not be afraid of going to reach schools if they are admitted.</p>
<p>My question is: do you know of any similar examples in which the student wanted to major in some heavily quantitative major (say Physics or Applied Math) and was actually very successful at a reach school? </p>
<p>Even if you do not know anybody, what is your opinion on this? It seems to me that someone who wants to pursue a major in, say, X studies he/she may be able to pull it off... but again, what if the person wants to major in one of the hard sciences?</p>
<p>Any perspective is appreciated. Thanks in advance.</p>
<p>It depends on the reach school. Will you have support there to succeed or not? What makes it a reach? Is it that the school is very popular/competitive, or is it that the rigor & preparation of other students is beyond your own?</p>
<p>I agree with Emerald. Check out the student support services. It seems to me that some of the most selective schools have the best resources that are totally free. Lots of self-motivation to do well and seek help. Also… and this too might be polarizing… I honestly believe that those kids who typically do well in school have no problems in asking questions and seeking help. They are confident learners and assume that if they are having troubles, it’s because it’s reasonable to have troubles. I don’t think S missed a single problem set tutor group for Calc II his freshman year. He made it part of his week the semester he took Organic Chem to go where the science majors had hung a shingle for those needing help. He now is part of that group a year later. </p>
<p>This said, some schools are more supportive of fellow students than others. I think you’d need some digging, but here’s a test. Why don’t you write one of the professors in whatever dept you are considering and ask directly. If you just feel this would be too much an imposition, perhaps it’s not the place for you.</p>
<p>The reach is a top national university. According to information I received I will have support from the school. Anyway, I believe most students get support while in HS, but some do better than others in terms of GPA. My HS GPA is good but not great. </p>
<p>I believe I was accepted to the reach because of my unique and strong ECs. However, my ECs are not academic in nature. They are strong community service initiatives. I do believe I can do well on more quantitative subjects, but I do not have Calculus yet. Meanwhile, I know that there are some other admitted kids who already have Calculus/Differential Equations, go to Math/Physics camps, etc. It is not that I think I will fail at the reach, it is more that I may end up at the bottom of the barrel if I major in a more quantitative field. </p>
<p>On the other hand if I wanted to major in some Area Studies or even some foreign language I would probably be able to be a competitive student. But again, I really want to major in one of the hard sciences.</p>
<p>If it is sciences you want to major in, then major in sciences. Don’t let the fear of doing poorly make you put aside what you really want to do in favor of the easier route. That being said, if you truly believe you will be the “bottom of the barrel” as far as science students go at that school, perhaps you should look at the other schools to which you have or will be accepted and find a science department which fits you better, one in which you will be able to handle the work more and reach your full potential as a student.</p>
<p>Not for hard sciences. I would look at your grades in these classes and focuses only on tests and quizzes to see if that is your strength. In fact, I only recalled one mom whose daughter majored in Sociology or Physology who was also good in writing graduated Summa Cum Laude.</p>
<p>DrGoogle… my son, who I always thought would major in humanities and go to law school, is a hard science major. Admittedly, he says his writing ability has gone completely downhill in the past three years. Go figure. Science likes things very succinct. English… not so much. I was an English major. Who’d have thunk it? :)</p>
<p>Reach is only a meaningful term during the application process. If you are accepted by a school, clearly they think you can do the work, and you should believe them. Don’t sell yourself short, or get intimidated by by your peers. There’s no reason you can’t wind up competitive with kids who got a head start in high school. Find a tutor, organize a study group, go to the prof’s office hours regularly with questions. You’ll be fine.</p>
<p>I’ll second this. I’ve heard several stories from a dean and a professor at D1’s school, talking about how when they initially started college they had a very, very rough time in STEM classes. They both worked with professors to figure out what they were doing wrong, both in understanding the material and in how to study. Both ended up becoming professors in those very subjects (biology for one, computer science for the other).</p>
<p>OP, I’d also suggest getting a sense of what the undergrad students are like at the school in question in the majors you’re considering. Are people competitive or cooperative? Do they freely offer advice to classmates and/or younger students? Or is everyone looking to gain whatever competitive advantage they can?</p>
<p>25% of the students at Harvard will be in the bottom quarter of the class…every year! I wouldn’t let the possibility of being in the bottom of the class stop you from going to any particular college and majoring in what you want (unless you want to go to medical school, in which case your GPA will be important).</p>
<p>Although I wouldn’t necessarily suggest going to a lesser ranked school, not having taken calculus will likely put you pretty far behind most other physics and math majors at your school.</p>
<p>This doesn’t make any sense. Different people have different strengths and weaknesses. I’m doing pretty well as a math/cs major at my school. If I were an “X studies” major, I’m sure I would have a much harder time.</p>
<p>Post #11. It’s a good idea to keep a high GPA just in case. I know several people didn’t think they wanted medical school/law school when they were going through undergraduate ended up going there. Keep all your options open is my motto. Also to interview for some companies, GPA is used to screen out candidates, IB is one example. I’m sure some tip top companies screen engineering students for GPA. IBM used to do that years ago not sure if it still does it or not.</p>
100% agree. This “they wouldn’t have admitted you if you couldn’t handle the work” is lovely in theory, but admissions is a very imprecise science. Engineering has an extremely high attrition rate at many colleges, and it’s not always because they suddenly develop a passion for philosophy. </p>
<p>My ex was someone with lower-than-average stats but good ecs who got into our alma mater as an engineer. He had the passion, but it turned out he just didn’t have the aptitude – he eventually dropped it in favor of something equally practical but more suitable for his abilities. While it’s impossible to know for sure, he may well have been able to handle engineering at a less rigorous/selective college. </p>
<p>Since my alma mater has tons of pre-meds, it is totally shameless about its desire to weed them out. Introductory biology and chemistry classes are brutal, and math isn’t much better. I’ve often wondered how many prospective pre-meds who wound up in econ would be in medical school now if they’d gone to Ursinus or Kalamazoo instead.</p>
<p>Thanks for the good comments, everyone. Here ara a few of my thoughts.</p>
<p>@born2dance94: Thanks for the encouragement!!! I do want to become more of a quantitative person (that’s why I may decline the reach school).</p>
<p>@UMTYMP: This is exactly my worry. Altough I believe I am (quite) intelligent, I may be already at a disadvantage regarding Calculus/Physics.</p>
<p>@Warnrain: Maybe it is wrong preconception, but if you are a successful CS student, you are likely to do well in, say, area studies. Maybe not the top student, but competitive nevertheless.</p>
<p>@ellemenope: Regarding the fact that 25% of students are at the bottom, I think it is okay if one believes his/her future is GPA independent (say you will work for the phamily business). It is less okay if you want to go to grad school or want to get a good job.</p>
<p>@DrGoogle: Agree with you… I am not sure you work for Google or not, but if you do (or if you work at some other well regarded company), could you please answer this question: Would you prefer to hire a 3.0 from a top national school or a 3.5 from a recognized state school (say around 15th-20th ranked state school).</p>
<p>Don’t you think that math and hard sciences would be just as hard to master at a non-reach school as a reach school–comparisons among the students aside? After all, quantum mechanics is quantum mechanics. Students from non-reach schools are competitive for the same top grad programs.</p>
<p>I’ve looked at the math faculty of the Harvards of the world, and there are more than one who went undergraduate to what you would call a non-reach school.</p>
<p>At less competitive colleges there are likely to be lots of math/physics students who haven’t taken calculus in high school. At more selective schools the vast majority of math/physics majors will have had calculus in high school. At the most selective schools virtually all of the math/physics majors will have taken calculus in high school and many if not most will have taken linear algebra and multivariable calculus as well.</p>
<p>At less selective schools the classes are likely to be considerably easier. They will typically cover less material and ask easier questions on exams and homeworks.</p>
<p>It’s hard to offer advice without knowing specifics but if the OP hasn’t had lots of exposure to advanced math and physics it’s possible he/she will not want to pursue them as a major. It also depends on how happy the OP would be switching his/her major to some other field if they can’t succeed in math/physics at the reach school, which I think is a possibility. </p>
<p>Although this is somewhat tangential to this topic, there has been some interesting research on how AA affects the number of URMs going into science and engineering careers. At least some studies have claimed that the reason historically black colleges and universities produce disproportionate amounts of black scientists and engineers is because other blacks go to more selective schools than they would based on pure academic ability and get weeded out of STEM fields.</p>
<p>Motivation is EVERYTHING! If a student has been accepted to a particular school, and is truly motivated to succeed, then, s/he is most certainly capable of attaining success at that school.</p>