<p>So my D plans on attending her REACH school where her test scores are below the schools average. Can my A/B student end up a B/C student?</p>
<p>Does anyone here see or experience this with their child?</p>
<p>Reach schools HAVE B/C students? :eek:</p>
<p>The school doesn't think of your D as a "reach" student, but one who can perform well in their environment, or they wouldn't have accepted her.</p>
<p>And, yes, perish the thought, at reach schools, a full 50% of the students end up in the bottom half of the class.</p>
<p>You've got to give more information.</p>
<p>If the reach school is CalTech, then yes that is possible.</p>
<p>If she spends four years partying instead of studying, then yes that is possible.</p>
<p>If she insists on majoring in a field for which she has no talent (i.e. stubbornly sticking to a math major after bombing advanced college calc), then yes that is possible.</p>
<p>In general, however, a student who makes a legitimate effort (goes to classes, does the assignments, turns in papers, etc.) and is halfway sensible in course selection is not likely to struggle in college.</p>
<p>Some colleges are known for high grades (grade inflation); others for giving relatively few As (grade deflation).</p>
<p>A particular college's pattern may matter more than whether the school was a "reach" for a particular student.</p>
<p>I agree with Marian's inflation/deflation point and it also depends on the major. Some majors are much more difficult than others and some majors have a much higher average GPA than others within the same college.</p>
<p>An important point for the parent is to understand that the scale has changed once the kid enters college. The parent can't expect that it's an extension of HS and expect the same types of grades to come home. In some cases they'll be similar and in some cases quite different but it doesn't necessarily mean that there's a problem (depending on the variables previously mentioned).</p>
<p>My d's college - which has a relatively wide range of SAT scores among students - spent 3 1/2 years studying this question, with staff from institutional research, admissions, and faculty. They concluded that, among students attending, they could find no correlation between entering SAT scores and GPAs or graduation rates.</p>
<p>They did find associations between SAT scores and family income.</p>
<p>My A/B student turned into a B/C student for her first year at a difficult, low-grading (but not that low-grading) college. It is a reach-y school, but not anything that should have been beyond her. She had to adjust a bit to the notion that she couldn't just blow off the classes she didn't love and do OK anyway.</p>
<p>It also depends on what sort of GPA she needs.</p>
<p>For example, premedical and preveterinary students need very high GPAs to have any chance of admission to the professional schools in their fields.</p>
<p>But many other students don't need high GPAs. They just need to complete their programs with reasonably decent grades.</p>
<p>
[quote]
In general, however, a student who makes a legitimate effort (goes to classes, does the assignments, turns in papers, etc.) and is halfway sensible in course selection is not likely to struggle in college.
[/quote]
I have to respectfully disagree. </p>
<p>My almost-straight-A hs student (in a rigorous coursload) has been to 3 schools courtesy of Katrina: Bates (supposedly grade-deflation-type school, or so I've heard), Tulane and Hopkins. He was an A student (3.5 or over) at the first two, doing the work but not struggling, in a heavy science/Engineering courseload at both. At Hopkins, he is keeping his head above water and is, so far, over 3.0 in a rigorous Engineering courseload. But there is struggle involved.</p>
<p>He makes way more than "a legitimate effort." He is sensible in his course selection, but is in a field which is very demanding (usually 17-18 credits/term; heavy science/lab). </p>
<p>He is willing to struggle, but has never had to struggle for B's before. Now he does. He does not feel the kids are smarter where he is. He does feel they are very very focused on GPA. They are also willing to forego social and "balance" activities for study. He is in a field where most grading is on a curve. Ergo, as mini loves to say, a bunch of these excellent students will be below average and therefore below a B.</p>
<p>It is tough. Does not mean it will happen to your D just because she chooses a reach school. Depends on the culture of the students and the field she enters.</p>
<p>A friend's son(who is in med school now) attended JHU and swept thru freshman year with a 4.0. He took Physics 1 at our state flagship university that summer and racked up his first B ever! Yikes.</p>
<p>Common sense would predict that students attending a reach college would be more likely to struggle. But as mini indicated, many studies indicate that this is not necessarily so.</p>
<p>If a student is accepted at a college they should be able to succeed academically. If they wisely develop their academic plan, are diligent and take advantage of the resources available, they are then putting themselves in a position to even excel.</p>
<p>jmmom:</p>
<p>I thought I covered that scenario in the "CalTech" comment. Obviously, an engineering major at any top college is a big challenge. </p>
<p>Your son probably has as difficult a situation as you could find -- engineering at a notoriously tough school. And, he's maintaining a solid GPA. I think that probably supports my thesis.</p>
<p>why are you asking the question? if they got a few Cs, would that bother you </p>
<p>if a scholarship is involved, it could be an issue, but would a parent be disappointed if their student got a few Cs if they are trying, having fun, learning and being a generally good person</p>
<p>i wonder about questions like this</p>
<p>ID, I know that you said "in general" and so allowed for the exception such as a certain school or a certain major. I'm not really disagreeing with you.</p>
<p>But I think the tone of your comment was that if a kid just tries, is not a f*** off, and doesn't choose his courseload foolishly, he won't struggle.</p>
<p>I just wanted to put a real face on a situation where struggling does occur. I don't know whether my son's case supports your thesis or not. He's got a heavy load without much choice in the matter given his field; he's maintained a solid GPA thus far; but he feels it is touch-and-go from minute to minute. And... he struggles. It's an honest struggle, but that's what it is.</p>
<p>It certainly depends on the field and the school. I am another one with a kid struggling for those B's in the sciences at Hopkins and not always getting them. She did not seem to have any difficutlty getting a B in an advanced level humanities course she took just for fun.</p>
<p>Just watch the jubilation at MIT when a kid (who has never gotten lower than an A- in his life) manages to pull a C! And that's with attending every lecture, going to section, making appointments to see the professor, forming a study group, etc.</p>
<p>In some fields, all colleges are reach schools. In some courses, every week is touch and go. It will depend on your daughter's attitude.... if she thrives when working hard and feeling challenged, it could be a good thing. If every quiz or problem set becomes a reason to doubt herself, it could turn negative pretty quickly.</p>
<p>Good news-- most kids will admit (once it's over) that learning one's limitations and having to push themselves is a pretty good life's lesson, even if it means conceding defeat to organic chemistry or whatever the subject.</p>
<p>Me? I flunked a core class in my major in college (had to scramble pretty quickly to find another major, that's for sure!) and my life was changed because of it. So- struggling can be a very powerful catalyst if a kid is prepared to work hard and make a lot of lemonade.</p>
<p>I know several kids doing engineering at a range of schools who are struggling mightily with their grades. I know kids who are pre-med who are finding the core sciences tough. Grades dropping. At the parent orientation for one of my son's schools the dean suggested that parents might expect grades would drop off for one semester(but not beyond). Both my kids, who had had 5's/7's (AP/IB) on all their relevant external exams found higher level math classes tough at their respective schools, in particular. I am not sure you can really generalize on this question. I think it is highly school AND major specific.</p>
<p>People should realize that, in general, grades don't matter as much in college as they do in high school. Yes, if you want to get into med school or an extremely selective grad school, you need that super high GPA, but most people don't carry their GPAs into life with them. If you graduated from Harvard with a 2.5, society weighs it the same as though you graduated from Harvard with a 4.0. </p>
<p>That said, students are most likely to struggle in their first year. A freshman B/C student may turn out to be an A student in subsequent years.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, Momwaitingfornew, the new reality (to my dismay) is that they <em>do</em>, in fact, carry those GPAs into life with them. I don't yet know for how long or in how many fields. But take a look into the Career Services web site of your kid's school - in Engineering (and in some other fields), students are expected to show up for job interviews with transcript in hand. Even back in the dark ages, when DH was in Engineering, his experience was that better job and salary offers went to those with better GPAs. </p>
<p>I'm with citygirlsmom - I don't want my kid to sweat a C here and there. And I'm with blossom: we celebrated the C+ my S got last term in a tough course. Lowest grade he's ever had. But he earned it and all the life lessons that came with it - how to find your way in a tough situation (prof ofc hrs, study partner, supplementary text... keep trying til you find the solution that works for you); how to fight the sapping of self-confidence.</p>
<p>I have told my S that, in the end, the life skills he is developing and exhibiting - resilience, persistence, courage in a tough situation, learning how to face the difficult stuff - are way, way, way more important than the skill of ace-ing a test. And I believe it. I think he does too.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, it's a struggle.</p>
<p><em>glad to see we're not alone - edad, blossom and others who have been or are there</em></p>
<p>Does everyone here assume they'll hear about their kid's grades from the college?</p>
<p>My H and I had a rude awakening when we learned that we'd be expected to pay the tuition bills but that grades go to students, and it's up to the students if they choose to share them with us.</p>
<p>Then, we searched our souls as parents and decided that it was time to cut that cord. It would be a better message to say we know you care about your grades and will do everything necessary to do your best work. If you have a problem, go see your professors. If you want to ask us for guidance, we'll give it. There are other people on campus to help you, too, such as your academic deans who are in better position to understand the academic dynamics of each department.</p>
<p>They didn't let themselves down. It was a relief not to always discuss the grades. We'd ask in general "how did you like your grades?" and they'd discuss their agenda. They took ownership. I don't know what they got per course, but I got the general sense that they earned A's and B's with an occasional C.</p>
<p>We do talk a lot about what they are LEARNING now, which is pure delight.</p>
<p>Some on CC have written that if they pay the bills, they expect to hear about the grades, but we just didn't feel the same on that.</p>
<p>but for engineering, the GPA is mostly important for the first few jobs after graduation - afterward, your work experience matters a lot more. </p>
<p>I very highly doubt that 5-10 years after graduating, that most prospectives employer would ask for a full transcript, if they even ask for GPA at all.</p>