Limits on Directors

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>My daughter is in a pre-college theatre program. Just had their first rehearsals. Her character has to kiss another girl. Director wants it full on the lips.</p>

<p>Is it necessary to do this in each and every rehearsal? At what point is a director abusive? These are high school kids, for goodness sake! They shouldn't be made to do anything that makes them feel so uncomfortable.</p>

<p>Is this how it is in college theatre, you have to do anything a director wants, no matter what? At what point can an actor draw the line without doing major damage to career?</p>

<p>DD is thousands of miles away; sounded shaken. What can she do?
(Sorry that this is my first post; I've been meaning to register for quite some time. This is the greatest forum!!!!)</p>

2

<p>Wow! That's different. Director may be asking them to do this each time because they probably look very uncomfortable at present and he/she is hoping that they can make it look believable. If she feels strongly, I don't think that it would be inappropriate to advise her to speak to the director.</p>

3

<p>jytte, first of all, welcome! :) I understand how difficult it must be for you to have your D upset and so far from home. There are several different issues here, as I see it. I'm curious what show this is that they're doing, as I can only think of a few which would involve such a scene, and it's unlikely that any pre-college program would be doing those shows. What pre-college program is she doing?</p>

<p>As to the situation itself, is it a show for which she auditioned? Did she know anything about the role prior to auditioning? Did she express any concerns to the director after she read the script? It would not be unusual, in my opinion, to include it in every rehearsal, just as every other aspect of a scene is included.</p>

<p>I understand that she may be uncomfortable but she's an actor, right? She's playing a role, and sometimes (or often!) particular characters have traits or are required to do things in the course of a play that we, as human beings, would not. This is something she is going to face as an actor, and she'll have to make the decision whether she wants to stretch herself in many ways to accomodate the roles she is chosen to play. Would she feel as uncomfortable if it were a boy she were kissing?</p>

<p>As an actor, particularly in theatre, your job is to take direction and to follow the director's vision of the show. There is certainly a collaborative part to this process, but ultimately, the decision as to how a scene is to be staged is the director's. Actors who are not willing to take direction or who 'draw the line' are generally not actors who get work. Actors who are auditioning for a role have to be willing to play that role as written. It is their choice as to whether they audition or not. </p>

<p>Having said all that, after decades of knowing working actors in the theatre community, I cannot think of more than one instance of something like this happening where an actor was cast and didn't want to play the role as written. In this instance, she was an ensemble member who refused to understudy one of the lead roles due to an aspect of that character that she wasn't comfortable with, which didn't really matter in the show. There were others who covered that track, but, honestly, I don't know what effect it had on her career. I've seen her in other shows since, but most of her focus is on her solo music career so it may not have been a big deal for her in that regard.</p>

<p>Ultimately, as actors our kids have to be willing to challenge themselves in creating characters onstage so that those characters are believable to the audience, and so that they are true to the vision of the playwright and of the director. The characters will rarely reflect individuals who are the same, or even remotely similar, to our kids but that's the beauty of acting. Being able to reinvent yourself as someone else onstage is kind of the point, right? :)</p>

4

<p>Hmmm, very interesting issue. I was actually thinking about this issue recently, in another context. I saw a professional production of Love, Valour, Compassion, which not only had some full male nudity, but also included a full-on-the-lips kiss between two men. </p>

<p>I found myself wondering afterward if the actors were uncomfortable with the scene, especially if they happen not to be gay, although they're playing gay characters. Ultimately, I decided that heterosexual actors should be no more uncomfortable doing a gay love scene than should homosexual actors doing a male/female love scene, which surely happens all the time.</p>

<p>That said, as a parent of a 17 year-old D, would I feel just as conflicted as you are if my D called home upset about a full-on kiss with another girl? You betcha!</p>

5

<p>Can she have a discussion with the director about the "kiss"' how it fits intothe show and character over all? ANd what the directoors thoughts are on how to make difficult situation such as these more comfortable for actors. If it is a pre-college program, I assume it is an educational program so that discussing questions as such would be part of the education of the students. For me, if I had an explanation that I understood, it would make it easier for me to relax and make the kiss appear more natural. I would not be sure that just practicing without understanding would make me feel more comfortable.</p>

6

<p>Everyone has made some very good points, especially Alwaysamom. But no one has mentioned the one thing that may really improve the situation -- discuss it with the other actress. Undoubtedly she is feeling uncomfortable as well, and just acknowledging that fact together can be tremendously freeing. And if they DON'T rehearse it repeatedly, it will only make the anticipation worse.</p>

7

<p>I think that the purpose of a pre-college camp is to invite the kids to grow as people and as actors. Personally, I think that it is perfectly reasonable for the actress (not her parent) to express her feelings to the director privately. I agree with onstage that it would also make sense to talk to the other actor. Taking risks on stage is always encouraged, but having personal limitations is also good. There are many famous actors who refuse to do nude scenes for example. They have obviously set limits for themselves & I don't think that this is unreasonable. The kiss may be unscripted and left to the directors artistic discretion. If he/she is aware of the actresses feelings, he/she may decide to do something all together different w/the scene. Then again, he may tell her to deal with it. She won't know if she does not take the risk and talk to the director.</p>

8

<p>Right, talking to the director should be your first step. As a director, I always prefer to work with actors who are willing and able to communicate with me. Do try to express your feelings without being negative, so you don't put him/her on the defensive. I'm sure your director is already quite aware that this is a difficult scene for any actress to deal with. Give him a chance to explain why he feels the kiss is necessary.</p>

<p>Certainly all actors should set personal limits. But in theater, the issue of homosexuality is pretty common -- and you don't have to agree with it to portray it as an actor.</p>

9

<p>Thank you everyone for your replies! It's given me some good ideas.</p>

<p>More on the situation: They put the kids into different plays and then had them audition; no one knew these plays (all very new, obsure and local). So the kids went into it not knowing what the characters do. The person she kisses is actually a male character, but for some reason, in this particular scene only, it's played by a girl. So it's not like it's important for the play. I don't get it, other than a director wanting to feel his power and toy with these kids.</p>

<p>This would have been the first time the extended family could see D in a live performance; we live far from them, but this program is very close to where they live. However, there is so much profanity, with every four letter word in such quantity, that there's no way I'm going to have her grandmas see it, much less the aunts, uncles, cousins.</p>

<p>So I'm pretty conflicted right now. We paid thousands of dollars for this? To have her get comfortable kissing a girl and be bathed in profanity? But then if she's growing as an actor......</p>

<p>But at what point is art no longer art?</p>

10

<p>Your last response puts a whole different light on the situation for me. It does sound like perhaps this director is taking advantage of his power over the students, although it's hard to know for sure without actually being there. Power trips are certainly not uncommon in this business.</p>

<p>You haven't mentioned whether this theater program is actually affiliated with a college. In my travels to different schools, I have noticed that some college drama programs like to experiment with more controversial and edgy types of theater. I guess it's possible that this director is trying to expose the students to new ideas -- who knows?</p>

<p>It's unfortunate that you feel uncomfortable about inviting your family to see the performance. This certainly isn't a unique situation though -- 35 years ago I was unable to invite my mother to see me in a production of "Hair" for exactly the same reasons. She would have been uncomfortable with the nudity and profanity; these elements, however, will always be present in certain types of theater.</p>

<p>You know, in the end, it comes down to your personal feelings. If you and your D have misgivings, you are certainly within your rights to question the director about his intentions.</p>

11

<p>This is an important topic for those who are exploring pre-college programs for their kids NEXT year. Parents should probably ask what shows are planned before signing up. It's really sad that this kind of thing has to be part of your daughter's experience. I would speak to the program director and let him/her know how you feel. You could probably do so w/o identifying yourself.</p>

12

<p>jytte, I don't really understand what you mean by "They put the kids into different plays and then had them audition". It does seem strange that a pre-college program would utilize what seem to be unpublished plays? Am I correct? It also seems unusual that they would have chosen a play filled with profanity. I actually can't think of any play that would fit that description, to be honest. Even a David Mamet play, which certainly has its fair share of profanity, would not be described as 'bathing the actors in profanity'. :) Could it be possible that it's not quite as bad as you're hearing from your D? I'm not trying to minimize your concern here, or her perception of her experience, but sometimes kids who are away from home in a new setting, especially when doing something possibly more challenging than they're used to, may be uncomfortable for reasons other than those that they're willing to communicate.</p>

<p>Have you read the entire play? I'm curious what the name is, and who the playwright is, and why it was chosen for this particular program. I think it's your right to ask these questions, as a paying client, and, in my opinion, it should not be done anonymously. It would assist us in providing further input if you'd tell us what program this is we're discussing, and if it's affiliated with a college. Also, is the director an adult or a student?</p>

13

<p>When my son was at pre-college last year, there wasn't a chosen play, but various classes were doing scene work. Samplings of the the scenes were later performed for friends/family. These scenes were chosen by the kids or by the instructors. Also, some scenes were student written. </p>

<p>My son was in a group that was selected to perform from their Directing class. The piece was student written and had a moderate amount of profanity. He also rehearsed as "Ben" in the bedroom scene from The Graduate. </p>

<p>So, from afar (I wasn't able to make it to the performances), I learned that my kid was cussing and sleeping with older women!!! We're not in High School anymore was certainly the message he brought home.</p>

14

<p>It is perfectly natural and mature if your D can discuss the kiss scene with the director, to get some guidance on how to feel a bit more comfortable performing it. If it's that tricky emotionally for both girls, perhaps they can go together to the driector and ask if they can first work on the scene with the director to his satisfaction, and then after that perhaps reduce the number of repeats of that passage. </p>

<p>When one of my kids was in community theater, there was a scene that had some heavy sexual overtones, and it embarassed the two teens. The director, much more sensitive than this one might be, did many of the rehearsals by calling out at that point, "And then you kiss and pin her down..." but then the rehearsal moved on. There was a special rehearsal for the tricky scene, out of the presence of the entire crew, to deal with the issues. After that, they were able to get through it more easily, and the scene worked fine in the actual production.</p>

<p>On a related idea, there was a character who smoked throughout the play, and it was very important to this rebellious teen character (Alan in Equus). I never knew this until years later, but my S made a request (at age 15) not to have to smoke. The director, after carefully considering his age and the health issue, didn't want him to become addicted to cigarettes on account of her, since he was a non-smoker. That's of issue, b/c you don't want to change the playwright's words, either. Still, she dropped the smoking from the entire play.</p>

<p>Recently I had to tell some relatives not to go see one of my kids' performances due to adult themes. I just told them it was not for them and that our kid had no control over the script. It was just an unfortunate thing, but they preferred to know and not embarrass themselves by attending. I'm talking about doting great-aunts. The theater pieces get beyond "Oklahoma" and it's a real problem for a family evening. If you think your family will be offended, you are doing them a great favor to warn them off of attending. You can also describe it and let them choose whether or not they'll go. Just emphasize that she has no control over the script.</p>

15

<p>The director at my D's h/s chooses very "edgy" plays. If the play is not dark, have a murder and or a sexually based plot, he won't choose it. From what I've gathered, many college directors choose these "edgy" type plays. My D's theatre director told her that the stage was all about communication and a powerful platform. He wants people to leave the theatre and talk about these topics. I suppose that's one way to look at it, but I think that h/s and college kids are surrounded by plenty of "edgy" subjects in the movies and on television. I don't understand why they need to be subjected to this stuff day after day in rehearsals. I guess I'm just old fashioned and naive. What ever happened to pure entertainment. If the play does not have some deep meaning, it's not worth doing? Why not choose a show because you just plain love the music or because you want your audience to feel energized and uplifted upon leaving?<br>
It's too bad that your family can't come to the play. We didn't invite our families to see "Tommy" at my D's h/s, although she had a significant part. The music was great, but between the murder, incest, profanity, prostitutes, and general sleeze, they would have been offended and I guess I never really understood the deep meaning in that whole story. I guess it was just too deep for me!</p>

16

<p>I don't remember there being prostitutes in "Tommy," though there certainly is implied child sexual abuse (between young Tommy and his uncle). I saw the recent production of this musical at University of Michigan and is was amazing and powerful without being explicit and over the top. (Perhaps other directors fashioned a different production.) The deeper meaning in The Who's Tommy is about our infatuation with fame and celebrity, and how bizarre and shallow and meaningless that is. Tommy is famous for being a brilliant, blind, pinball player, and people imbue that with meaning that is probably not even there! All the time, Tommy only wishes to be "normal" and "free," like those around him. The ending is about love and reconciliation with family, despite their mistakes.</p>

17

<p>NMR, thank you for that very nice explanation. I guess I was just too overwhelmed by it all to "get it". In my D's production, it was hard to get beyond the creepy uncle, (which was NOT subtle AT ALL), the "Hawker" or should I say "Pimp" and his Acid Queen/Witch who was supposedly going to cure Tommy's catatonic state with sex, her friends (the prostitutes) and the cousin who was not only strung out on heroin but continually abused Tommy. Oh, did I mention the pole dancers and the fact that the pimp was smoking an actual cigarette?
Since it's a rock opera and many of the words were lost in the very loud band which was indeed FABULOUS, it was difficult for most of the audience at this high school performance to understand. Most of the show was focused on on the creepy stuff, but in the very last scene we were supposed to accept that Tommy was cured and able to forgive all of his abusers in the final scene, lasting about two minutes? Maybe if you were high while watching it!
Yes, our society is infatuated w/fame and celebrity! Why else would people like Paris Hilton BE a celebrity. The media and "show business" would have us all believe that if you are not living a fabulously exciting life, full of riches & fabulous clothes on your super thin body that you are a loser... Oh, lets not forget you have to have multiple sex partners and multiple orgasms. Hopefully someday there will be a backlash and I hope that my D is leading the revolt! I say call the director of the program and complain!</p>

18

<p>Many of the most popular shows deal with issues that are difficult for some people to think about, like murder, death, sex, infidelity, homosexuality, homelessness, AIDS, suicide, drugs and alcohol, racism, discrimination, domestic abuse, mental illness, crime, and yes, many contain profanity, all of which are reflective of issues in society and are also reflective of current, and past, Broadway shows! </p>

<p>One of the many joys, and benefits, of theatre is that it does challenge the audience to think. When it does this, it has served not only the purpose of entertaining an audience but also, perhaps, opening some minds and hearts to issues that many people wish to aviod. This also is of benefit to the kids in high school and college who are fortunate enough to play wonderfully written roles. If an actor is never challenged, they will not grow, learn, or ever be truly fulfilled or successful in their craft. </p>

<p>Even with all the issues I listed above, they are rarely so overwhelming that they should take away the ability to enjoy the particular show as a whole, or the wonderful music or writing of the playwright or lyricist. People often tend to focus on the risque or profane or 'challenging' part of a show to the exclusion of the rest of what they're viewing, and I think that's a shame. Every show from Sweeney Todd to Guys & Dolls to Les Mis to Jersey Boys to Rent to Spring Awakening to Grease to Hair to Elegies to Angels in America to The Color Purple to AIDA to Wicked to Hairspray, even The Lion King! has subject matter that brings a chance for discussion, in addition to enjoyment of a wonderful score or a beautifully written book or fabulous costuming or intelligent staging. This doesn't even begin to consider the myriad of 'issues' that Shakespeare's plays portray, or those of some of our other greatest playwrights, like O'Neill, Miller, Williams! The contemporary playwrights have nothing on those guys! :)</p>

<p>I don't know any actor who would be content to do a show like Beauty and the Beast, or Mary Poppins, forever. And even those shows deal, even if in a minor way, with stories that are crafted not only to entertain but also to enlighten. Shows which have had the biggest impact, particularly on the younger generation, are, in fact, some of the most thought-provoking and possibly controversial - Hair, Rent, and now this year Spring Awakening. The Who's Tommy, in the three productions I've seen, has been powerful and moving and it has one of the most amazing scores. It is one of MTI's most popular shows. </p>

<p>To get back to the topic at hand, as I said in my first reply on this thread, the relationship between actor and director, in any show, is a collaborative one. As such, an actor does have the ability and the responsibility to discuss any aspect of his/her role with the director, and to seek explanation or advice.</p>

19

<p>I totally agree, alwaysamom! Though shows such as "Beauty and the Beast" are undoubtedly fun and wonderful entertainment, the best art (in my opinion) is that which challenges us in some way, and when we are challenged, we often feel uncomfortable. Think of it this way: how many people leave the theater after seeing "BATB" and find themselves discussing the themes, etc. days later? Yet that's exactly what happens when one sees a show such as The Who's Tommy. That show, for better or worse, stays with you long after the final curtain. It's a show with something to say. Is it my favorite musical? Not by a longshot. But did it affect me? Very much. In my opinion, that makes it worthwhile. (Sorry to continue off topic; it's such an intriguing one. :))</p>

20

<p>So while I'm here hyperventilating and having sleepless nights, D is going the other direction. When we talked the other day, she did the typical "stay out of it, I can handle it, wish I hadn't said anything." A relief in one way, at least.</p>

<p>I can appreciate that directors must get totally bored with all the quality older plays out there. When the actors are over 21 and everything is upfront on what the characters do, fine, they're better equipped to handle it and make choices. (I love theatre that doesn't just entertain, but challenges us, and makes a statement. Just wish they could do in a cleaner way.)</p>

<p>It does bring up the broader question of what the limits should be at this younger age. Kids at 17, 18, 19 years old are very vulnerable, they want to please, they want to make it in theatre. And we're sending them out there, trusting that colleges will take care of them. When D gets back, we'll talk about what line can be drawn that's both acceptable and reasonable.</p>