List and Chances

Parents Forum
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<p>I posted in the chance me section but it was recommended that I repost list & profile as one thread.</p>

<p>My son goes to a 6,000 student public high school but is in a specialty program for the top 150 kids in the city. Here are his stats etc.:</p>

<p>GPA 3.8 (UC GPA 4.5)
His 9th grade grades were a mix of A's & B's; 10th grade one B in fall, the rest A's; 11th grade straight A's with rigorous course load (4 AP courses, a couple of honors). He is planning on 4 or 5 AP's next year).</p>

<p>ACT: 33 (will retake, had a 36 on some of his practice tests so could go up)</p>

<p>AP Tests: all 5's on 5 tests (Micro & Macro Econ; US & World History, etc.)</p>

<p>SAT 2's: 780 World HIstory, 750 US History</p>

<p>Activities:</p>

<p>Model UN - Co-President next (senior) year; Best Gavel Award
National student Documentary Contest - 2-time finalist (one 3rd place of 2,500 entries; 1 honorable mention)
Started a rock band which plays locally; he composes all the songs & is the lyricist
Designs posters for local rock bands
2 years Cross Country
2 years Orchestra
Debate Club (hasn't been heavily involved as the teacher/coach is not good)
Study Abroad: did a 2 week educational trip to Cuba with his school economics program
Summer: Intern at a Major Corporation
Summer: Intern at a local graphic & web design firm</p>

<p>Has a huge passion for history & historical documents; loves maps, collects antique documents, pages of literature, etc. Very interested in borders, the building of nation-states, etc. Reads historical documents and literature for fun (e.g. history of the Medicis's, Communist manifesto, etc.) His hobbies are in the art/design/music area.</p>

<p>We are looking for thoughts on the following list. (CA in-state)</p>

<p>Brandeis University (merit?)
UC San Diego
Oberlin College (merit?)
Carnegie Mellon University
UCLA
Washington University in St. Louis (merit?)
Wesleyan University (expensive choice)
Rice University (merit?)
University of Chicago
UC Berkeley
Brown (expensive)
Princeton (possible early?)
Columbia (expensive choice)
Harvard
Oxford</p>

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<p>U Chicago- Reach
UC Berkeley- Low match/Reach
Princeton- Reach</p>

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<p>No other UCs on the list?</p>

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<p>Since he is in-state for California, i would suggest Claremont McKenna and Pomona colleges. </p>

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<p>I would say he is competitive (50% or better) for schools up to 30% selective. For 20-30% selective I would say 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 chance. </p>

<p>Be aware the college of choice can make a difference. At CMU, for example, College of Comp Sci has about same accept rate as harvard, but art school admits are much easier. </p>

<p>For most selective admits (ivys/U of C) his apps will need a better hook to get success. Participation in activities isnt considered a hook…they want accomplishments, especially at state/national level. GL. </p>

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<p>Erin’s Dad we may add another couple of UC’s as I believe we can just check them off on the UC App (and pay an additional fee). </p>

<p>Gumbymom, thanks for the suggestions; we are considering Pomona but a bit concerned about cost; Claremont McKenna felt really small…</p>

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<p>Many schools do not require the SAT2 ifs submitting ACT scores. However, schools that are looking for SAT2s often want one in math or science, and one in english/history/etc. As far as the list - he will find good history in any number of schools. He might want to look at the music and art community as a way to sort through places where he will find his people. </p>

<p>Except for Wesleyan and Oberlin these are all medium to large schools in urban/suburban areas so I assume that is part of the criteria. Consider Tufts for a vibrant music and art scene and strong academics. Vassar may be another good option. Johns Hopkins may be another interesting option - strong music although I think more classical. Many kids with similar lists also like Macalaster as a happy to go to safety.</p>

<p>The list is pretty reach heavy, but if there are UC safeties he would be happy to attend then that is OK. </p>

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<p>1012mom, Johns Hopkins has the Peabody Institute, a conservatory (and Oberlin has a conservatory on campus as well). For those not in the conservatory, its presence can actually pose some negatives because opportunities go mainly to the BM students.</p>

<p>What exactly are hobbies in the art/design/music area? What does that mean?</p>

<p>Does he want small or large? Location? What kind of vibe? Is he a kid who likes an alternative vibe for instance?</p>

<p>I think having Ivies and other highly selective schools is fine. </p>

<p>If a smaller LAC appeals, I also suggest Loren Pope’s books, “Colleges that Change Lives” and “Looking Beyond the Ivies.”</p>

<p>Any chance of financial aid? Harvard, for instance, gives aid to families with incomes as high as $150K (was $180k awhile back). Tufts financial aid isn’t as good as the Ivies but it is a great school w/great music. The inclusion of Oberlin and Wesleyan is confusing amidst the other larger schools and makes me think that LAC’s might be worth looking into.</p>

<p>Williams, Amherst, Vassar, Skidmore, Macalaster, College of Wooster, Carleton, Grinnell, Kenyon, Bard, Oberlin, Clark U.( has merit and good music) and many others. Wesleyan is strong in world music by the way.</p>

<p>He is in good shape for admissions, for sure, and, depending on finances, I hope he can truly choose a school he loves where his intriguing interests can blossom. He should really read websites carefully, and research schools in any way he can- and visit. He has a lot of things going for him and should feel in a position to choose, while at the same time remaining aware of the odds. Sounds like an interesting young man!</p>

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<p>Chances threads are what they are, but I’m going to temper other’s enthusiasm a bit. He seems like he might be missing something to stand out for the top schools. He’s going to have to write an appealing essay and pick his recommenders well, and get lucky. That’s not to say it won’t happen, but as for most people, I would anticipate rejection.</p>

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<p>Brandeis, Rice, and Oberlin give out precious LITTLE merit aid. If you are looking for merit aid…you need some different schools on your list.</p>

<p>And…every school on your list is an expensive choice…in fact very similar in price.</p>

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<p>With his love of history and historic documents, I’d take a look at the Washington, DC universities such as Georgetown. With access to the Smithsonian or the National Archives, think of the possibilities.</p>

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<p>It’s a really long list already and i don’t really 'get" Wash U and CMU on the list given what you’ve written about interests etc. but that could just be my perception. I would be curious about what appealed to him that those two particular unis are on a list with Brown and Wesleyan and Oberlin but not other schools that fit the Brown, Wesleyan and Oberlin genre. UCSD seemed an odd choice also. Most parents aren’t really into “chances” type threads. so I’ll just add comments about the list in general. You don’t mention specifically that you are looking for merit money, yet you’re mentioning merit behind some of the unis and behind some you’ve written expensive. If merit money is important it would be a good thing to spend some time over in the financial aid forums and on the school specific forums just to get that research out of the way. There’s 15 schools on that list so maybe take his top 5 and post specific questions that might help you tighten it up with some unis where he might be guaranteed some merit. That ACT and unweighted GPA would garner some decent merit money in a list with some less selective universities, but perhaps all the California public schools are the financial safety? In general I agree with 1012mom and compmom. In my opinion he just needs a tighter list and perhaps it needs those financial safties if the Cali unis don’t check that box. </p>

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<p>Thank you for all of the input! momofthreeboys – Was U and CMU were schools that we thought would be strong both in academics and arts (design, music). Also, we are looking into possibility of merit aid but don’t want that to be the only deciding factor, as he really is seeking to feel challenged intellectually by his peers – he visited Tufts but found it too “preprofessional” – not sure if that was just an impression from the tour/guide or something “real”… Size is less important factor than others but he would prefer a city, mid-size to larger school. However, he likes Oberlin, Brown in terms of vibe. Generally thinking of CA schools like UCSD as financial safety. We likely would be full cost at Brown, Wesleyan which is rather daunting…</p>

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<p>If you are full cost at Brown and Wesleyan, likely you would also be at U of Chicago. I think this list is reach-heavy if his ACT stays at 33, but he would have a better chance at some of them if his score goes up. </p>

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<p>thanks! He will re-take in Sept. </p>

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<p>I think you need to face the music on need based aid. If you’ve run the net price calculators and the results are scary to forgetaboutit then your son really shouldn’t be pursuing need only schools, no matter how appealing they sound. This applies to Brown, Wesleyan, Columbia, Chicago. Princeton has a reputation for being liberal with need based aid, but it does seem to me to be out of step with the others on the list.</p>

<p>Some others that are good with merit are Grinnell and Rhodes. For good art departments (not necessarily design) look at Skidmore, Kenyon. I believe these all offer some merit, though rewards are difficult to predict. </p>

<p>If it turns out that you can make need based aid work I’d also look at Williams for excellent art, music and overall liberal arts. He’d be interested in the following:<a href=“http://chapin.williams.edu/exhibits/founding.html”>http://chapin.williams.edu/exhibits/founding.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Did I miss it? What is intended combo of major(s)/minor(s)?</p>

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<p>Pushy- I’m missing something.</p>

<p>Run the calculators. Start with Princeton. You can either afford or not afford what the number is (everyone I know who has ever applied to/been admitted to Princeton says that the calculator is a terrific predictor of the final package). If you cannot afford what Princeton tells you your share will be, I’m going to save you a lot of shoe leather here- don’t bother applying to the needs-only schools on your list. Period, end of message. If the only way to swing your share of the tuition at Princeton is by selling a kidney, you are looking at Merit only schools which will knock a bunch of places off your list.</p>

<p>Don’t bother debating the nuances of Brown vs.Wesleyan and which place has the better vibe or the stronger History department. </p>

<p>Make a list of the Merit schools and then start exploring those. Whether your son can get admitted to Brown is another discussion-- but if you can’t come up with what Brown is likely to think you can pay, the entire discussion is irrelevant.</p>

<p>Sorry to be blunt- but you will thank me in April.</p>

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<p>At Tufts you can take courses at the Museum of Fine Arts, but it’s a schlep to get there. My younger son took a course on Saturday mornings one semester. I’m not convinced CMU’s history is good enough to warrant applying. (And it’s one of my favorite schools - older son went there for comp sci.) </p>

<p>If you are looking for merit money I think you need to look for colleges that are a little further down the food chain. Check out the thread with merit money recommendations. Otherwise I have no problem with a reach heavy list as long as there are at least two safeties on the list he’d be happy to attend. My younger son got a 1/2 cost scholarship at American - he was interested in IR - one of their strengths, I don’t know what their history offerings are like however. If your son is interested in going to to a PhD in history it’s worth it to go somewhere with good people who can provide the crucial recommendations to grad schools.</p>

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<p>Just an FYI…if the net price calculator for Princeton says you can afford PRINCETON, do not assume that you will be able to afford the other schools on your list. Princeton has far more generous need based aid than those other meets full need schools.</p>