Living rent-free with parents before grad school?

Paying for College
1

<p>I need some advice and opinions on this.</p>

<p>I went to a private college and ended up with a massive debt in loan. College was overall a very hard experience for me, in terms of money. Even after financial aid that was offered, I didn't have enough funds to cover expenses, so I worked 20 hours a week while doing a full courseload, barely making rent and tuition bills and living off of almost nothing. I was always broke, and considered dropping out a few times to get a job first before continuing my education but I was fortunate to graduate and make it through. However, I realized I needed to build a better cushion for my life in the future (not to mention pay off loans) before going through grad. school.</p>

<p>I discussed the costs of grad school, and broke down a financial analysis of how much loans I wanted to pay off and how much I wanted to save before going. There is some funding available for the programs I am looking at, but after the college experience with money, I wanted to have a better cushion for myself, an emergency fund, and also to pay off some loans. I actually wrote a formal report that laid out a detailed plan of this (which I have been sticking to by the way, very well). My parents were very disappointed in me. They wanted me to go to grad school right away so I could hurry up and get a "real job" and "give back" to them (buy them a house, luxury car, nice things they've never had).</p>

<p>At this point, I should mention, I grew up in the lower rungs of the middle class family, and my parents have been unhappy for a long time. They say that at their age, they should enjoy certain pleasures in life like other people their age. And they are often looking at things other people enjoy, although they are not willing to work for them (one of my parents refuses to work because they say it's embarrassing to start working at their age and the other is always resentful of their siblings who have made the American dream happen but didn't share the wealth). I knew my parents financial problems, so I never asked them for help and did things on my own in college, but for the first time, I enlisted their help regarding my plans.</p>

<p>My parents agreed to let me live rent-free and never communicated any demands for rent prior to me moving in. And based on their agreeing to the idea, I found a job as a research assistant at a nearby university in the field I want to pursue graduate studies in. It pays meagerly, but it still works. I have enough to cover my own car payments and insurance, groceries, personal costs, loan payments. I also buy my own groceries at home, do my own laundry, leave home at 7, come back in the evening. I chip in for my parents groceries every once in a while, and take them out to dinner/something nice once in a while, too. But after all those payments, I have very little money left over. So I get to save a few hundred towards my grad school fund. </p>

<p>I'm grateful for this arrangement. I love having a steady paycheck to cover things, and not having to worry about being evicted if I can't make rent meet, like the way it was in college. However, things are not exactly great around here. My parents freely open my mail, rummage through my things when I am gone, and expect me to attend every church and community function with them. We have discussed all these things, but all hell breaks lose, and they say that while I am underneath their house, I must abide by their rules - this means mail/items are technically their property (okay, I know this is not true, but I am going with the flow with them because I can't afford to lose this arrangement). I am also not religious. My parents were not religious until recently either. While these things do feel frustrating and violations of boundaries, they are little sacrifices I am willing to make.</p>

<p>Lately, things have gotten rocky to say the least. They complain that I don't "help out" in the house, and that I am selfish for just taking care of my own needs, such as doing my own laundry, but not theirs and household chores around the house. I've often come home to see a huge sink filled with dishes that have piled up and I'm told if I want to use the kitchen to cook dinner (or lunch for tomorrow) for myself, I have to do everyone's dishes first. I AM thankful for them letting me live here, but it's tiring to come home after a long day of work, and have to do everyone's dishes when I never even got to taste what was on the dish and then have to spend an hour cooking my own meal to eat. I also try to pencil in a few GRE hours during the evening, so the earlier I can eat/cook my dinner, would be better for me...</p>

<p>Now they have been complaining about rent. They said that at my age (post college adults) I should be buying them nice things like cars and a house. And they say I'm so selfish for living rent-free and pocketing the money that would go to paying rent. They said with the money I pay for rent to them, they could finally experience some nice things, like buying new imported furniture and a variety of stuff. They give me a hard time about me living rent-free and keep saying I'm selfish for pocketing the little money I save is. The thing is, I kinda feel stuck. I'm grateful to have a steady job with a steady paycheck and grateful for the roof over my head. And I'm also grateful to get experience in this field to help my application. But I'm starting to feel like I'm going crazy. I AM grateful to them, but I feel hurt and resent is also growing. It would seem most parents would be proud of their child for making it 100% on their own through college, and would be happy to let their son/daughter live rent-free for two years while they build themselves a better cushion for their future. Also, I'm not in a relationship right now (and haven't been for a while), but in college, I dated a guy (who was actually a grad student I met in my lab) that was starting to get abusive, and went through an emotionally hard break-up, so I moved back in briefly for the summer with my parents. I guess in my perspective as a child, the home of my parents is always the safe place to go during hard times, but they were very unsupportive while knowing about my situation. Constantly badgered me about paying rent. It was so hurtful to be there during this time, that after a month, I just went back to my apartment in college. Added to this, my hurt has been growing a lot lately.</p>

<p>I considered moving out, but honestly, I am not at a financial capacity to do this. I DID think about this, but if I do this, I will have to delay grad school plans for 3 to 4 ADDITIONAL years, so I could simultaneously pay bills, pay off loans, and save for the future. Overall, I just need some advice on this situation, especially if there are any parents who could share some insight as to what I am doing wrong. Sorry this is long, this is just something that has been growing for a long time in my heart, and I'm finally airing it all out. I don't know if I'm just being an ungrateful child, but I just feel hurt and frustrated because of money problems, and I don't know what to do anymore.</p>

2

<p>*They said that at my age (post college adults) I should be buying them nice things like cars and a house. *</p>

<p>??? Are your parents immigrants??</p>

<p>Anyway, make a spreadsheet that shows how much you take in each month and where the money is all going. Once they see that there isn’t much left over, they may understand why you’re not paying rent.</p>

<p>As for doing some of their laundry, etc, that’s not asking too much. That’s the cost of living at home rent-free.</p>

3

<p>Thanks for the first reply</p>

<p>My parents are immigrants, so am I, we came to America when I was a teenager.</p>

<p>My grandparents supported my parents until very recently. Both sets put them through college and provided living expenses for them until they were married. And one of them took my parents in rent-free while they were first married so they could save-up and create a small cushion for themselves and their lives ahead. My grandparents took care of me and the house chores while my parents worked and saved all the money for themselves. When it was time to move out, my grandparents supplemented the cushion my parents made for themselves by buying them a house, and then giving them monthly living expenses until very recently when we moved to America. My parents misused the money that were given as gifts to them, and squandered it all away. Now my parents are waiting for my grandparents to die to inherit a little something.</p>

<p>So when they say that children my age should buy their parents a house or car, it doesn’t make sense to me. At least not in the example they have set for me.</p>

4

<p>Ok, so your parents behave in a bit of an entitled way.</p>

<p>Still, make up a spreadsheet that shows what you earn on a monthly basis, and how the money is spent each month. </p>

<p>And, figure out which family chores you can do on a weekly basis…dishes? vacuuming?</p>

5

<p>You are correct that your parents’ logic doesn’t hold. However, if you are going to live with them, you need to come to terms with them about what you are to do around the house, and whether or not you are to chip some rent money in each month. Make up the budget as m2ck has suggested, and share it with them. Ask them what they would want you to cut from your budget so that you can pay them rent. Ask them which specific chores they want you to do in exchange for rent if you aren’t paying them any rent. That way you will be able to define for yourself whether or not it really is worth it to you to continue living with them. If you move out, they would be able to rent your room to someone who would pay them more money. Maybe that is what you need to do.</p>

<p>Delaying grad school a couple more years may not be such a bad thing. Meanwhile, find out what education benefits the university where you are working offers to staff members. Many of them will allow full-time employees to pursue a degree part-time for free. </p>

<p>As for the opening the mail thing: stop by the most convenient post office, and pay for a P.O. Box. The $100 or so it will cost you for a year will be money well spent as it will preserve your sanity.</p>

<p>Wishing you all the best!</p>

6

<p>Also…if you have the grades and the GRE scores, consider applying to PhD programs instead of masters programs. Many PhD programs are fully funded, so you don’t have to pay the costs.</p>

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<p>I agree with poster regarding spread sheet to help them understand but I really don’t think that will help much. If they expect you to be funding their life that expectation is not going to change, and it’s not a very pleasant place for you to be. This has got to be affecting your self confidence, and there doesn’t seem to be any point in trying to please them, they are expecting too much. Maybe you could get a different job out of academia to make some more money and put the grad school off for a while?? Better for you to get out…</p>

8

<p>As for your parents opening your mail, find out if you can have your mail sent elsewhere…a friend’s home? a PO Box?</p>

<p>Also, many bills and such can be paperless these days…so you’d get your communications via internet with passwords and such.</p>

9

<p>I agree with the posters who said get a post office box. That would really help the mail issue. I am not certain the spreadsheet idea will work with your parents - it sounds like they may just feel that you should put them on the spreadsheet as an expense first. What may work better is bartering for rent. Ask them to give you another year at home without rent in exchange for doing certain extra chores that you both agree on - such as doing everyone’s laundry. It sounds like you are already helping out around the house. Why not agreeing to specific chores - such as doing everyone’s laundry and doing the dishes 4 times per week - or whatever, in exchange for rent. Work on your own budget - maybe trying to work extra hours or get an extra part time job - to save up your stockpile to get out of there as quick as you can. Ask your parents if youi can do the barter idea first for a year or two, and then if you are still there at that point you will start paying rent. </p>

<p>As far as church and house rules - we are the same way with my D. When she is at home, she goes to church with us and comes home at a reasonable time. Those are just the house rules. We hope she will go to church when she is away at school but I think the only time she went to church was when we were there for the weekend for a visit. She knows that we can’t sleep if we know she is still out late. At 12:00 we start calling her, at 12:30 we start calling hospitals!! (a bit of an exageration - but she gets the drift and if she is late she always calls and lets us know where she is so we don’t worry)</p>

<p>I don’t think it is realistic to say that if you move out they will get more money by renting your room to someone else. In reality - who are they going to find that will want to rent your room?</p>

10

<p>I get the distinct feeling that even if you lay it all out to your parents, it isn’t going to register. The PO box will take care of your mail issues for a reasonable cost. You can show your parents your loan payments, and explain to them that the reason you are here is so that you can pay off these loans and be in a position to go to graduate school and be making enough money so that you can help them when they are in true old age. Perhaps you can make an arrangement to “borrow” rent money from them to be repaid when you are in the position to do so. I get the feeling that you may be sending them money in their older age anyways.</p>

<p>Can you move in with your grandparents? Sorry you are going through this. You are not going to change them. Their problems were there long before you were involved.</p>

11

<p>Thanks for everyone who read the long post and took time to reply. I really appreciate everyone’s willingness to reply/work with this issue when I know you don’t have to help.</p>

<p>And I think I was unclear when I wrote this earlier, but I do have budget spreadsheet(s) I have showed and discsussed with them multiple times. One includes a long-term break down of all the loans I have, anticipated costs of graduate school (including living expenses for that time), and the payment/savings schedule. Another spreadsheet has a more short-term one, that is a monthly budget of income, and expenses with a very detailed breakdown of each category: car (includnig gas), food, etc, and also a category for the loan payment for school. </p>

<p>@ happy mom, thanks for the input. Actually when I first moved in with them, this is what I offered: I will do ALL dishes, regardless of whose it is, and take care of kitchen-related chores on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I also offered to cook dinner on these days, but they said my cooking was crappy they couldn’t eat it (this is a separate matter itself). Tuesdays/Thursdays I offered to walk the dog, wash the car, and any outside chores/errands I could do in the evening. Weekends, I could vacuum or tidy up the house. Actually I never included laundry in the list, just because everyone has always had their own hamper in their own room, and growing up, it was always an individual thing. I’ve never asked anyone to do my laundry since idk maybe middle school? and the idea of sifting through someone else’s dirty underwear and clothes is disgusting. Laundry is just a basic task that anyone who is physically able (IMO) should do on their own.</p>

<p>I offered the above, and I diligently followed the plan and the schedule. I’m not sure if you already got a sense of this, but I’m big on making plans for things, and then sticking to that routine. When I did all this though for about 2.5 months, they made comments such as “you NEVER do ANYTHING around the house”, to which I would respond, “mom, you KNOW my routine, it’s that I do dishes on M, W, F”. And she would say “HM, I have never seen it” and she just denied anything I ever did. I felt I was going crazy because this IS my routine, I KNOW that I did dishes for months on M, W, and F, and walked the dog on T, Th, but she said it never happened and I felt like I was just going crazy? She kept saying and insisting I never do anything, so then I felt like my efforts were useless and stopped trying to help her this way. I seriously felt like I was going crazy and questioning my reality, because I swear to God I did the chores, and she was even there to see them, while she was watching TV in the room that has a view connected by a counter to the kitchen. She threw a fit a few months later, so I told her “I did all those things for the entire summer, but you said I never did, so I don’t know why I should do them anymore,” then she responded “I just said that because I felt like it at that time. Besides, it is the basic duty of a child to do all those things in the first place, so that does not count as helping out.”</p>

<p>I didn’t mention this in my original post, but I’ve actually already delayed for two years. So if I stick to my current schedule, I will have spent 4-5 years out of school already. And if I take additional time off, it will most likely be 8-10 years, and I just really want to go to grad school when I am a little bit younger.</p>

<p>However, I will definitely look into funding opportunities for staff like you mentioned, and getting a PO Box. I think that will be very helpful.</p>

<p>@mom2ck, I haven’t taken my GRE yet, but if the scores are good, I will look into a PhD instead like you mention. I have some trust issues with mail/privacy so I don’t feel comfortable having things mailed to my friends, so the PO box is probably the best way to go. Yeah, and that’s the funny thing! I am actually signed up for paperless statements and electronic banking, but everyone still seems to send things at least once every few weeks. I’ve actually CALLED people multiple times to remind them not to mail anything to me, since I’m paperless signed up, but they still do…</p>

<p>@momtotwins - yeah, actually, all 6 years I was out of the house, they never found someone to rent my room to. they have talked about this a lot, even when I was in high school, but they always say things like “oh I wish someone would offer to stay in that room, so we could charge them room and board, I could be such a good guardian to them, I’ll cook for them, do their laundry, clean their room”. They seem to think that someone will just drop out of the sky and ask them for a room, and be willing to pay $1,000 for a room in their house. I have a strange feeling this will never happen, because they want someone else to come to them to offer to pay (without advertising or posting anywhere?) and because they have a lot of problems getting along with people (relatives, coworkers, neighbors, landlords), if they ever got a boarder, I doubt it would be for long before they are gone. </p>

<p>@cptofthehouse - I can’t live with my grandparents :(. They are abroad, and it took me a long time to get my immigrant status adjusted and gain residency. I would have to get a travel document to go abroad I think and I just think it would get complicated to leave the country, and jeopardize my status or change it again. I guess it’s just more comfortable for me to stay settled and possibly go to a grad. school in my state. At one point, I asked if I could live with some relatives, but my parents said no, because they didn’t want my presence with the relatives to affect their relationship (for example, we have this one great aunt/uncle that sends my parents regular check a month to help out. They were afraid that if I went to live with them, the great aunt/uncle would feel like they were already going their duty and that it was no longer necessary for them to send my parents a check). </p>

<p>I feel bad, but I think you might be right that even if I lay it all out to my parents, it’s not going to click with them. I did have multiple discussions with them, but honestly it just sounds like they’re not listening. They talk AT me about their opinion and conclusions, but when I try to engage in a conversation and discuss issues, they don’t want to hear it it seems. Or they HEAR me, but don’t listen to me, because they just want to say what they want to say. This is sad, but the best form of communication goes the following way:</p>

<p>MOM/DAD: Do as we say . You need to do this. This is what we think, etc, long lecture, do you understand?
Me: Yes mom, dad.</p>

<p>before, I used to say “Yes mom/dad, I understand. Since we are talking about this, could we also talk about this other aspect of what you talked about.” and IF they let me talk, they will get very upset with me and say that I am being disobedient and then they just repeat what they lectured me about and ask if I understand. I gave up trying to explain to them what I think, and I learned that it was useless to try and contribute my two cents anywhere, so I learned to shut up and say “yes mom, yes dad” even if I don’t agree with them or even if I have no idea what they are talking about. They have the mentality of “children should be seen, not heard”.</p>

<p>By the way, I really like your idea. I think that will make sense. I will “borrow” $1000 a month from them for the next two years, and “pay them back” after grad. school. This kills two birds with one stone: my parents will get the money they feel entitled to. And they also expect me to support them after they retire anyway, so it covers that, too.</p>

12

<p>Borrowing a $1000 a month sounds like waaay too much to me. Besides you already have too much debt…adding 24,000 is not a good idea.</p>

<p>Frankly, go back to doing your chore schedule. Ignore your mom’s claims that you “never do anything” because she didn’t see it. Heck, maybe take phone photos of “before and after” you do the dishes.</p>

<p>And, ignore that crazy claim that your chores are what kids normally do, so those aren’t helping out.</p>

<p>frankly, it sounds like your mom suffers from depression, so you’re never going to be able to make sense out of nonsense.</p>

<p>At some point, you’re going to be moving on with your life…marry, have kids, etc. It’s very possible that a spouse isn’t going to be amenable to any unrealistic expectations of your parents…supporting them, buying the big-ticket items, etc.</p>

13

<p>Tomorrow, on one of your breaks, pick up the phone and call your health insurance provider. Find out how to access mental health care for yourself. Then make an appointment with a counselor for a session or two so that you can address the best ways that you can stay not-crazy while living with your parents. A could counselor will be able to help you do this. Filial duty is one thing, but having your life sucked away by money-vampires masquerading as parents is another thing entirely.</p>

14

<p>having your life sucked away by money-vampires masquerading as parents is another thing entirely.</p>

<p>Happymom…so well put!!!</p>

<p>I can almost predict that when this dear young lady begins a serious relationship, if the parents have any suspicions that the guy won’t support the idea of them being financial leaches, they’re going to cause all kinds of trouble.</p>

15

<p>Oh, sometimes I think human families aren’t so different from the wild animals. Junior gets to be certain age and mom starts pushing him out, creating tussles, making it clear he’s a bit big for the den. At the same time, junior is also feeling the tight quarters, the contention for authority. </p>

<p>I’m afraid my first take here is that all the spreadsheets and clean dishes in the world aren’t going to make this go away. By being at home, in a sense, you have confused everyone’s roles- Mom still sees herself as mom; you have placed yourself back in the child role, dependent on them at a time when you are waiting for your own next move. </p>

<p>I struggle with this. I love D1, a rising senior, but she’s in that phase where she’s still dependent, but feels independent and craves all the privileges associated with that. Including the right to tell me how I am wrong about her role in the household, our family priorities or expectations versus her desires, and she’s got her own rationale. I know it makes sense to her.</p>

<p>There are times when the fit is no longer as easy as we wish it could be. This is, in a sense, a bumper period- hopefully, it will resolve in a few years. But for now, you and your family have to either come to a peace, a redefining- or you have to move on into your own independence. Each side probably feels “right” and can justify. You parents are eager for you to transition. So are you.</p>

<p>I am more sympathetic than any of this may sound- especially since you are also dealing with a cultural trap of sorts, their expectations you will take care of them. We don’t know if your work is fulltime, at a good salary, just how you may be accelerating your loan payments to get things in order for yourself, etc. This may be a time to re-run those numbers, see if it’s time to rent with friends, look for a more lucrative job, etc. </p>

<p>I know you want grad school asap. I understand. But the issues with your parents suggest that, for now, the fit isn’t in your parents’ home. It may be time to move forward.</p>

16

<p>^^^</p>

<p>I don’t think that the scenario that you’re experiencing with your child is the same as what’s going on here.</p>

<p>I think the OP’s parents are annoyed because their child isn’t in grad school so that she can soon get a “real job” and help support THEM. So, the mom is nit-picking the D because that’s all she can do with her frustrations. The mom doesn’t have a healthy attitude that her cub is “too big for the den”. The mom’s attitude is, “hurry up, get thru grad school, and start supporting us.” </p>

<p>I could almost bet that if the OP found the means to move out right now, perhaps into a BF’s apts, the parents would flip out because they would realize that they would have no hold on her at all. </p>

<p>I know that others disagree with me, but expecting a college graduate to attend church with you because she lives under your roof is not acceptable to me. If my Jewish FIL was living in my home, I couldn’t (and shouldn’t) tell him that he has to go to Mass with me because “my house, my rules”. I think parents who use that with adult children are abusing that power in a way that they would NOT do so with any other adult living in their home. If I had a married child and spouse living in my home for some reason, I wouldn’t even think of demanding that they attend my church if that wasn’t their “thing”. Nor would I expect them to observe some curfew.</p>

17

<p>I used my own situation to show the conflict between wanting your kid near, being willing to help (or thinking you are) and being ready for her to move forward. I wouldn’t call her parents leeches or vampires so easily. It’s not uncommon for parents in some cultures to expect to be supported. All we read here is how OP feels she is doing what’s best for her, trying hard to be accommodating, she’s this and she’s that, while they whine, gripe and criticize. And, OP now says it’s been two years-</p>

<p>I think OP needs to understand the dynamics she put herself in- regardless of whether the parents are wrong on certain points. On other threads, when it is the parent who posts, don’t we talk about setting timelines, expectations, etc?</p>

18

<p>You sound like a very responsible young person who is trying to do the right thing with difficult parents. I would save every penny I could, lay low for as long as you can stand it, abiding by your parents rules, then move on and move out. Learn to let what they tell you “roll off” and don’t give it too much weight. Come up with a few pat answers you can reply with when they complain and don’t let them get to you. Perhaps something like “I am sorry you feel that I am not helping, I am doing the best I can. All I can do is my best” Then stop talking and move on. Another one we use in our office alot is “we will just have to agree to disagree on this one”. You can think of a a few that you think will work with your parents. Understand that this is just the way they are and they will never change. It is up to you to change your circumstance if you want a change in your life. If you can stay another year and live like a pauper to save as much as you can, perhaps you can be in a better position to move out in a year and make a life for yourself on your own. Maybe look for an apartment with a roommate, or look for jobs at the university where you are working that may include housing, such as a dorm mother or something like that to keep your expenses lower. Also, what about trying to get some graduate classes at the university where you are working to get a jump on your graduate degree.</p>

19

<p>Have you told us what major you will pursue in grad school? Depending on the school even a masters can get partial funding, especially if you attend a school with the masters as their terminal degree. I know of kids, even in the humanities, who have gotten things like A} work study to use for graduate research B} tuition remission and pay and health coverage for teaching C} free room & board by being an RA, etc. Do everything you can to minimize any grad school loans.</p>

<p>Get a PO Box, get privacy.</p>

<p>I don’t know what culture you are coming from, but if your parents’ still think old world and you operate with an American mindset, that could lead to some conflicts and misunderstandings. I think you have a year to survive before you can begin grad school. Are there any jobs in your town which would provide places to stay, even if only part time? House sitter? Pet sitter? Anything to get you out of your home as many nights as possible. </p>

<p>I have seen tons of kids tell me about their evil parents and later met wonderful kind people who were dealing with normal teenage stuff. And I have met horrid nasty parents, too. Assuming that every single thing you said it accurate and assuming that if I heard your parent’s side of things I would still agree with you, I would still probably advise you not to take any huge stand or make a permanent break or even a permanent decision. I think when people are in this stage of life, college grad, but not yet embarked on their career, it’s a bad time to make life altering decisions. </p>

<p>If there is a way you can make a break for yourself without declaring all your feelings, it might be smarter in the long run. You can later choose whether your parents are horrid and you want to stand up and tell them how you feel, or the middle ground- don’t announce how your feel, just limit contact for sanity sake.</p>

<p>After a lifetime of dealing with some difficult family members, I wonder if we should have made a break in our twenties, we always thought it would get better and it truly never will. But it is too late now to be worth the upheaval. Our family chose B, to move and make a life far away, to remain in contact and not have a big emotional show down.</p>

<p>Find a way to protect your sanity and make a life for yourself, worry about the rest later.</p>

20

<p>There is a thread in the Parent Cafe about supporting one’s parents in retirement/old age. OP should read it. There are people out there, and they are often parents, who cannot take care of themselves responsibly. Some will look to every possibility especially family members to care of them. When so entrenched in that way of life and outlook, you can argue, appeal and show the numbers all you want. It’s not going to do any good.</p>

<p>My advice is to do whacut you can to protect your finacials, get your mail at a PO box, and find a job with a living wage and start your own life as soon as possible. Yes, they are your parents and you love them, but you need to get yourself on firm footing to be available when they really need help, which they likely will. But if you get mired down in meeting current demands, you will lessen your chances of being able to deal with the future, your and theirs.</p>

<p>No sense in BOTH you and them being in poor financial shape. You can’t control what they spend and do, but you can make your own decisions.</p>