Location vs Costs vs Requirements [SUNY Buffalo vs NYU vs Pitt]

<p>Hi everyone!</p>

<p>Okay so final college round up with all decisions out! My choices are between NYU 7 year dental, SUNY Buffalo 7 year dental, U Pitt 8 year dental. My parents and I had three basic categories we were using to decide: Location, Cost, and Requirement to maintain seat.</p>

<p>NYU got plus for location (huge plus since my parents want me to get out of Pittsburgh) and Requirements (3.5gpa + 19 DAT) but a minus on cost ($60k for undergrad and $90k for dental school, parents can afford undergrad and a portion of dental school but I will most likely have to take out loans). I will be majoring in bio here.</p>

<p>Pitt got plus for location (got as much as NYU though) and cost (instate for undergrad and dental school, parents can easily afford both with little debt if any). The minus was in requirements with a 3.8gpa and 22 DAT. I can major in whatever i like though since it is 8 years - most likely econ.</p>

<p>SUNY Buffalo got a plus for cost (roughly the same as pitt for undergrad with scholarship and i could become a NY resident for dental school costs) and for requirements (3.5gpa and 19 DAT). However, I was personally turned off my location. The undergrad campus was very spread out (i grew up liking the pitt sort of campus) and it seems to be cold and always snowing. I would major in bio.</p>

<p>I'm personally leaning towards NYU. I loved everything about it when I visited last year. I have heard some not great things about the dental school though. </p>

<p>Opinions are appreciated! Thanks!</p>

<p>This is a tough one. </p>

<p>NYU would be perfect if not for the cost.</p>

<p>SUNY would be perfect if not for the campus. Could you learn to love the campus??? You also don’t like the weather, and that could get very old in 7 years.</p>

<p>Pitt is not so perfect. Why do you think their GPA requirement is higher than the other two? I don’t know anything about dental school, but I’m wondering if the requirement is any reflection on the quality of their education. Just to let you know, my D, currently a junior at Pitt, has a 3.8 GPA (in engineering!), and the only reason it is that “low” is because she took Bio I first semester. Since that is a weed out class, it was much harder than her other classes. If she had to do it over again, she would have taken it either second semester, or sophomore year so that she would have been more prepared for it. My point is, you can earn a 3.8 GPA at Pitt, so don’t be scared by that.</p>

<p>How do you feel about the 7 year plan vs. the 8 year plan? </p>

<p>If I were deciding on cost, I would choose SUNY.</p>

<p>If I were deciding on the school I thought was best, I would choose Pitt.</p>

<p>@Fly Me To The Moon. Thanks for responding!</p>

<p>I completely agree with you on both NYU (perfect expect for cost) and Buffalo (perfect except for location - and 7 years it that kind of snow would be a looooong 7 years :P). Like I said, my family is leaning towards NYU and we are trying to talk to their financial aid office about a mix up that occurred. </p>

<p>As for Pitt, we have absolutely no idea why the requires are so high! Yes Pitt is ranked in the top 10 (i think 11 actually - there isn’t really an official “ranking”) for dental school. However, I applied for a program that was Villanova-UPenn dental (and they had a UPenn-UPenn that I didn’t apply for and UPenn dental is ranked above Pitt) which also wanted a 3.5 and 19 DAT. It seems every place wanted that but Pitt. Not to mention also the average gpa and DAT of last years entering class for Pitt’s Dental school was a 3.58 and 20.53 DAT. We honestly have no idea why the requirements are so high. I’m not so nervous about the gpa (although a 3.5 has a little more breathing room than a 3.8) as I am about getting that DAT score! A 22 from what I understand is pretty hard to get. Also, I’ve lived in Pittsburgh since I was 5 and visit Oakland frequently so it would be nice to explore some where new.</p>

<p>I really don’t know about the 7 vs 8 year though</p>

<p>I don’t know what DAT is, so I can’t comment. It sounds like it will be NYU. It’s understandable that you would want to go to school somewhere other than Oakland since you grew up there. Please report back when you make your decision. Good luck! And congratulation on earning three good offers!</p>

<p>The DAT is the Dental Admission Test, basically the MCAT for dental school, and it is scored out of 25. </p>

<p>Any other thoughts?</p>

<p>DAT=MCAT. Okay I got it! ;)</p>

<p>I just wish I knew why Pitt’s requirements were higher than the other two schools.</p>

<p>How do your parents feel about Buffalo? Spending all that money at NYU is going to hurt. Sure, you will be making a lot of money once you are in practice, but you will also be investing a lot of money in a new practice as well. Then there’s the whole getting married and having kids that is a huge money suck. </p>

<p>Think long and hard about how you will feel about spending that money. Will you regret it?</p>

<p>But also think about how you would feel if you chose Buffalo. Would you regret not going to NYU?</p>

<p>I can see why you are perplexed, because this is not an easy decision.</p>

<p>Another thought…Pitt wouldn’t have accepted you into their program if they didn’t think you could achieve their goals.</p>

<p>Is that $60K per year for dental school at NYU? How much debt will you need to take on if you decide to attend NYU? I think $200K of debt is reasonable for dentists, as they stand to make a good salary.</p>

<p>Personally, I would try to minimize costs, so NYU would be on the back burner for me. Dentists make good money, but less debt is always better. Location is really important, too, because you will be there for 7-8 years. I would lean towards Pittsburgh - you have your entire life to move somewhere else if you want to - but the only hesitation I would have is the requirement to maintain a 3.8 GPA and a 22 DAT. That’s really high and kind of difficult to do. The plus would be that you wouldn’t be in that much debt on the off chance you changed your mind and decided not to do dental school, but I tend to think that’s unlikely for a kid driven enough to get into these combined programs.</p>

<p>Buffalo would then be the next consideration - cheaper, and easier requirements to stay in the program - but you’re right in that Buffalo is not a great city. It IS always cold, and the city itself is kind of run-down.</p>

<p>So this is a really hard one. It would really depend, for me, on 1) how much debt you would actually have to borrow, total, for NYU (I think more than $200,000ish is too much; dentists make, on average, $146,920 per year, and the top decile is only $166,400. This isn’t surgeon salary) and 2) how difficult it would be for you to maintain a 3.8 at Pitt. Pitt would be my first choice if not for wariness about the 3.8 requirement. You may want to ask how many students get removed from the combined program due to falling short of the GPA requirement.</p>

<p>I gave this more thought over night. (I really need to get a life. ;))</p>

<p>My dentist is a grad of Pitt’s Dental School. He bought a thriving practice, and even though he is not doing as much business as the dentist he bought the practice from, he was able to build a million dollar home, which says to me he is making plenty of money.</p>

<p>But…he did his undergrad at Millersville University. You know, one of PA’s state schools that costs about $18,000 a year.</p>

<p>So while you have been accepted to guaranteed admission programs, you could opt to do your undergrad at one place and dental school at another. As you stated, the average GPA and DAT scores of admitted students at Pitt’s Dental School is lower than what they are requiring you to meet with automatic admission. (Which I think is unfair, but they didn’t ask me! :))</p>

<p>You most likely don’t have any other undergrads to choose from at this point, but couldn’t you go to Buffalo for undergrad, and NYU for dental school? It’s a little bit of a compromise, in that you get away from Oakland, only “suffer” 4 years of Buffalo weather, still get away for Dental School, and go to NYU, whichis where you really want to go.</p>

<p>Oh, and by the way, Pittsburgh’s weather isn’t that great either. LOL</p>

<p>Another option would be to go to Pitt, and if you don’t maintain the GPA, then just apply to their Dental School like anyone else would. Or apply to NYU.</p>

<p>@FlyMeToTheMoon and juillet</p>

<p>Thank you both so much for your input!</p>

<p>So my parents talked to a couple of their friends who attended SUNY Buffalo for various reasons (law school, medical school, residency) not for learning about the university but more for their opinion on the city, climate, etc. All of them said that it was pretty miserably cold and they would not recommend living their for 7 years. After this, my parents kind of moved Buffalo lowest on the list (still in consideration though).</p>

<p>We then began comparing costs for all three:
-Pitt:
For undergrad with scholarship and room and board would be around $20k/year X 4 years = $80k (although if i go to pitt, my parents would consider buying an apartment for me to use through dental school and then rent it out for income after so the price could come down)
For dental school we calculated around $70k per year X 4 years = $280k
Total = $360k - probably no loans/debt involved
-NYU
Undergrad is around $60k per year X 3 year = $180k
Dental school with cost of apartment and living in NYC around $90k X 4 year = $360k
Total = $540k - little loan would have to be taken out. we actually realized that tuition wise everything works out the same between pitt and nyu, the difference if the cost of an apartment at Pitt vs NYU and my parents fully know that the cost of living in NYC is much higher
-Buffalo (once again, moved down on the list after parents talking to their friends)
Undergrad with scholarship and room/board is $18k X 3 years = $54k
Dental school is interesting. If i become a new york state resident the cost for four years is $220k and out of state is $320k
Total is either = $274k (after NY resident) or $370k (still OOS)</p>

<p>So obviously Buffalo is the cheapest, followed by Pitt and NYU (due to cost of NYC living).</p>

<p>I also was able to contact a few people through some family connections who have gone to Pitt and NYU dental (and when I interviewed at Buffalo, they had current Buffalo Dental students who went through the 7 year program answering questions). The NYU dental students said their large class size (235 vs 80 for Pitt/Buffalo) only factors in when in lecture, not really for clinical experience. they actually believed they have better clinical experience due to the number of patients and number of cases they have seen because of the location in NYC (the buffalo students actually told us they have trouble getting patients to come to clinic). Is this something else to consider? </p>

<p>We are going to Pitt on Monday to discuss a few things:
-Why the requirements are so high/how flexible are the requirements
-Do I have to “resume build” (with NYU and Buffalo I do not have to become president of clubs that look good, get published X amount of times while doing research - by meeting the requirements and joining stuff I want to, I will be admitted to the dental school. We do not know if this is the case with Pitt)
-Any more scholarship since I can go to better school with a 7 year program (we don’t know how well this one is gonna turn out…but i guess it’s worth a shot :P)
-if I graduate in 3 years because of AP credit, can I have my seat in dental school
Anything else worth asking?</p>

<p>Thanks again for all the advice/help. It is really nice to get other people’s opinions</p>

<p>Also, FlyMeToTheMoon - as I mentioned above, Buffalo and NYU do not require me to go very far above and beyond what I need to do once I am in the program (and once again, no idea what pitt wants in this area either). If i tried to apply out of the program I would 1) lose my spot and 2) have to compete against kids who did go above and beyond. If I choose either Buffalo or NYU’s program I am pretty much 100% committed for the seven years.</p>

<p>Now if I end up choosing pitt, they require me to do all the extracurricular stuff, and I manage a 3.8gpa and 22DAT I could always apply to some other top dental schools like Michigan, UNC, Washington-Seattle, UPenn, Harvard, Columbia, etc. (seeing that Pitt’s “guarantee” isn’t very much of a guarantee I could apply other places, lose my spot, but then apply to Pitt again where I feel I would be a strong candidate since I completed the requirements they set upon me)</p>

<p>As for other undergrads other than these three, I do have quite a few options (Michigan - top choice if I was doing just a 4 year undergrad, Villanova, VCU, Northeastern, Rutgers, Temple, Drexel) but my parents said they didn’t want to consider paying either a ridiculous amount for OOS tuition (michigan costs roughly $55k/year OOS) or send me to a lower tier school (Drexel, Temple, VCU) without having a guaranteed spot in dental school.</p>

<p>I do know that both Pitt undergrad and Pitt dental have very good reputations in multiple areas. NYU’s undergrad is very highly regarded while the dental school is still moving up. Buffalo’s dental school is also highly regarded (not as high as Pitt though) but the undergrad is not really my style and has an okay reputation</p>

<p>It’s good that you are visiting Pitt to receive clarification of many issues. The resume building is a good one to ask about. I didn’t even realize that could be an issue. I can’t think of anything else to ask, but if something comes to mind, I’ll be back to post!</p>

<p>PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, come back to update us on your progress. I like the way you think, and know that you will make the right decision. I just want to know what it is.</p>

<p>Oops, we cross posted. Everything you posted in #11 makes sense, and now I understand that aspect better. I also can see why you are leaning towards NYU after you elaborated on the details of Pitt’s acceptance. I hope you have a fruitful meeting on Monday.</p>

<p>Thanks FlyMeToTheMoon and I will definitely say what my final decision is (i really hate when people on CC start threads that are a couple years old now, i look at them and then they don’t say where they ended up going!) My parents and I are just trying to hurry the process a little bit because my dad will be gone the entire week before the decision is due - so we want to choose before then :)</p>

<p>Just a little bit of an update:
-Still visiting Pitt tomorrow
-Talked to two dental students over the weekend. 1 was in the 7 year program at nyu and another did undergrad at NYU and then went else where for dental school. The one in the 7 year program said that he loved the undergrad experience but dental school was okay (great clinical, but lots of students esp. international students and super high cost) he said he would only choose NYU dental again if he were in the 7 year program. The other I talked to said they loved the undergrad at nyu but saved money by going back to their state school for dental school (and actually went to a better school). they said that they knew a lot of kids who went to nyu under the 7 year program and deferred out because they could not do the cost of NYU dental. they actually recommended doing something similar, 4 years at nyu then coming back and doing dental school in PA. thoughts?</p>

<p>Interesting. You had some hesitation about NYU Dental school anyway, and they confirmed it. I’m assuming if you come back to PA to do dental school, you’re thinking Pitt, right? Or would you consider others.</p>

<p>What I’m not clear about is, if you would not do the 7 year plan at NYU, why would you still want to attend for undergrad? It would cost you more money than Pitt. It probably comes down to the $^$%# restrictions that Pitt has. I can’t wait to find out what they say tomorrow.</p>

<p>If you attend NYU only for undergrad, does that mean that you would still be able to complete undergrad in three years? That’s the other factor I hadn’t thought of, which I believe is important to you. So I guess I’m figuring out why you’re still considering NYU.</p>

<p>Can’t wait to read your post tomorrow!</p>

<p>Went back and reread…4 years at NYU. So figure out why you would still spend the money for 4 years undergrad at NYU instead of doing Pitt. I can’t wait to find out what you decide.</p>

<p>So here is what we found out from Pitt today!</p>

<p>First, really liked the campus. Even though I’ve been there a bunch of times before, I never really have seen it during the day with tons of students there (I’m either there in the evenings or on weekends)</p>

<p>Second, the gpa at 3.8 is because they find that kids in a program stick to the minimum of a 3.5gpa and eventually hit a block in med/dental school since they didn’t really push themselves as much as they should have. my friends at Pitt have told me a 3.8 is definitely doable, you just need to know your limitations so you don’t screw yourself (taking too many credits, trying to take multiple honors classes, etc.)</p>

<p>Third, the DAT requirement…so the undergrad people had no reason as to why it is that high (especially showing them the sheet we got which said the average gpa/DAT for the incoming class of 2012 was a 3.53gpa/20 DAT). We are planning on talking to someone at the dental school in the near future. What a recent grad from the dental school told us is that every four years or so the average improves on the DAT. When he was applying, the average DAT was an 18 so to be competitive you needed a 20-21. Now the average is a 19 so to be competitive you need a 21-22. They are expecting that since dentistry is becoming more popular and competitive, the average will increase to a 20 and to be competitive you must have a 22-23. Thus the 22. Everyone says that is achievable but you just really need to study and understand the test.</p>

<p>In terms of resume building, they said first comes academics/scores, then volunteer work, the shadowing and working in a dental office, then research (if possible), and then your clubs and activities. So that would be something I would have to do, but if i stay in pittsburgh I could easily get that done.</p>

<p>I think now I am truly leaning towards Pitt (especially if I can use AP credit and graduate in 3 years). We figured that NYU is not worth the cost. If I rock it at Pitt, I could go to a better dental school. And if not there is Pitt and Temple dental that are both in state for me.</p>

<p>Still haven’t decided but will post when I have :)</p>

<p>Yeah! Oh, that’s right, I’m supposed to stay impartial.</p>

<p>Did you look at Sutherland? I assume you would be in the honors college.</p>

<p>I’m glad you had a productive day today. As far as honors classes, I’ve heard pre-med students say they don’t take any honors classes because of the potential for a negative dip of their GPA. Pitt does not require students in the honors college to take honors classes.</p>

<p>Are they saying that you would have to be active in clubs and activities?</p>

<p>I agree that a 3.8 GPA at Pitt for someone as bright as you is definitely doable. It just means you won’t coast in any courses, which seems to be their objective.</p>

<p>I’m so looking forward to finding out what you choose. This thread is like reading a good book, and I can’t wait to read the ending.</p>

<p>When will you meet with the Dental School?</p>

<p>Thanks for the support FlyMeToTheMoon. We will probably meet the dental school some time next week but regardless I will probably turn in my deposit soon. For clubs and activities they definitely want you to be involved, but not bite off more than you can chew. Personally I’m looking into the pre-dental club, a dance team, and possibly a pathfinder! I will probably do sutherland but the new dorm is coming along really nicely so I don’t know what to do about that haha!</p>