<p>I'm not sure how to really start this post because it's not any easy post to write. I am new here and just found the site and am looking for some guidance. First let me explain our situation. I have a daughter that is a sophomore in high score. She attends two high schools, one taking core type classes and the other has contains an Academy of Health and Science that is higher level/Ap/ PreAP/dual credit courses along with a multitude of other requirements such as community service hours, summer internships, career shadowing, etc. My daughter has always been a gifted student..and I don't mean that in terms of the schools definition of gifted (which she is also). She has always had a strong desire to learn about everything and she is just truly gifted. She has won awards on the school debate team, has played in the orchestra for four years and won multiple awards for that, including competing at state multiple times. She is also a student teacher at an orchestra camp every summer. She has recently taken the PSAT for the second time (once as a freshman) and has a 219 score or approx 1490. Currently she has recieved information from over 65 different colleges including Yale, Brown, John Hopkins.
My problem is this..I had my daughter at a very young age and struggled to provide her with all the opportunities I could..her father is not involved. Several years ago, I started college myself and now I will graduate with my Bachelor's degree in May 06'. Despite the fact that we have come this far together, we would still definitely be classified as low income. Once I am out of college, I will have to begin paying back my student loans. I am beginning to get sick with worry that I may have spent all these years preparing her for a life that I ultimately won't be able to give her and feeling very guilty as well. She has worked soooo hard and deserves to go to college that she wants to go to. It is my understanding that her father's income will have to be taken into consideration by the colleges when looking at her financial aid package (even though he would never contribute a dime for her) which would result in her family contribution expectation being significantly larger. She is very aware of the financial situation we live in and she in not materialistic or unrealistic about our situation, but I am concerned that she may be putting too much hope on getting scholarships in order to go to college. I feel like if I try to reign in her dreams of getting scholarships for college that I am going to be crushing her well earned dreams, but I worry that if I don't and my worries are realistic than I will be doing a diservice to her and she will be in for a huge disappointment and heartache later. Any advice, anyone that can give me a reality check on the likelihood of getting scholarships, etc??
A worried mom</p>
<p>Take heart! There are options. You've come to the right place to explore those options. </p>
<p>Not the expert on these matters, but there are parents who are and I am sure they will post in better detail but...I could read the worry in your post and thought I would send something....:)</p>
<p>Sometimes a school will acknowlege an absent father (income) and sometimes they will not. It seems to vary school to school. Did you see the recent thread on this forum titled: Top LAC Worth the Money?.<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=41546&page=1%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=41546&page=1</a>. That is worth reading.</p>
<p>That (probably gifted) student had the same issue. It appears that the school may not take the absent father into account--but I believe he is appealing their decision. </p>
<p>Another option is to try to fall in love with schools which offer generous Merit Scholarships. These scholarships are based on Merit alone--not financial need. A number of CC students got AMAZING full-tuition Merit scholarships to wonderful schools. It's a terrific option.</p>
<p>Universities which offer generous Merit Scholarships include: WUSTL, USC, Vanderbilt, Tulane and Emory. There are many others. This is also a familiar topic on CC and there is a recent thread for you to read: Which Colleges Offer the Most Merit Aid? <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=41679%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=41679</a></p>
<p>Keep posting and I am sure you will find a happy ending to your inspiring story.</p>
<p>Sounds very Gilmore Girls. I think it's better to be realistic about money from the get go. A bright child like your daughter can gain acceptance to many schools - and, depending on parents' finances, she may qualify for financial aid. There are also many fine schools (altho not ivies or most top east coast LACs) that offer merit aid. If it were me, I'd encourage her to apply to a variety of options - an ivy/ivy equivalent, a good LAC/university (such as Carleton, Grinnell, Rice) that offers merit aid, and a good state school, if you have one in your state. Since money is an issue, there's no point in allowing her to lock in on a false hope. If she ends up at a state school or top, but not tippy top, school with merit aid, she'll find plenty of other students in the same boat and she can still get the fine education you've been working for together.</p>
<p>excellent advice so far. Keep in mind that given your income level, it MAY actually be cheaper for your D to to go to a private school that meets demonstrated financial need than to go to flagship State U. That was the case for my nephew.</p>
<p>or2tex, the good news is that you have a bright and talented daughter, she has a committed and involved mother and you both have plenty of time! </p>
<p>The absent father who won't contribute to the cost of tuition is a thorny issue for colleges. The outcome seems to vary. Before getting further into this, I would ask two questions: Would your daughter's father be willing to file financial information? Would the combination of your and his income preclude need based aid?</p>
<p>Once you know where you stand, you could do some preliminary EFC calculations -- using both incomes and using just your income. That way you could determine whether or not schools that are needblind but don't give merit aid are worth pursuing.</p>
<p>Simulaneously, you should become the world's expert on merit aid. I assure you there are several toprate colleges that do give generous aid to toprate students.</p>
<p>The third thing you should do is research and expose your daughter to a wide range of colleges -- not just big names -- both those that are very selective and those that are less selective.</p>
<p>You've a long journey ahead, but I'm sure the outcome will be wonderful for both of you.</p>
<p>One of the possibilities is the Belk Scholarship at Davidson. It pays for everything including room and board. It is a merit scholarship that includes sports and leadership (teaching at band camp). I have a suspicion that they also consider finances even though it is supposed to be strictly merit based. In addition it is the outstanding LAC in the South and very parent friendly.</p>
<p>Since your D is a sophomore, she will be retaking the PSAT next fall. She would qualify for National Merit finalist in many states with her current score. Assuming she improves a bit, she will qualify in all states. The highest qualifying score so far is 222 (MD, MA, DC and overseas). So I would urge your D to do a bit of preparation for the next PSAT to bring her score up a few points. Being a NM finalist will open doors to many generous scholarships based on merit rather than need. The preparation will also help with the SAT. There was a thread on CC "Which colleges give great merit aid?" It's worth looking it up in the archives.
As other posters have pointed out, some schools are very strict about parental contributions; others are not so rigid. SInce you have time, you might assemble paperwork to show that your D's father has not contributed to her upbriging and will not be contributing to her college expenses. I am not sure what kind of document would be needed; others may know.
I would not discount Ivies and top LACs just because they do not provide merit aid. As long as they do not demand that her father's income be counted, your D will have a good chance of getting substantial aid based on your own finances. Many of these colleges are well endowed; they provide good financial aid which can make them cheaper to attend than state schools.
There are, however, some great state schools, and your D may qualify for their honors program along with generous merit aid. Some have rolling admissions, so your D will need to apply early during her senior year.</p>
<p>The director of financial aid at MIT has a blog that is worth checking out - he explains a LOT about how financial aid is determined. Even if your daughter is not interested in MIT, I think you'll find a lot of answers there></p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.mit.edu/barkowitz%5B/url%5D">http://blogs.mit.edu/barkowitz</a></p>
<p>Your daughter's very high soph PSAT score indicates that she'll become a National Merit scholar after taking the test as a junior (the year that the PSAT counts).</p>
<p>Here's a list of colleges that give automatic full tuition scholarships to students who are National Merit Scholars. My advice is to in addition to pursuing others' suggestions about checking out colleges offering excellent merit aid, also familiarize yourself with the colleges on this list, and encourage your daughter to practice for the PSAT and keep her grades up so that no fluke prevents her obtaining a NM scholarship.</p>
<p>In addition, sign her up for fastweb.com, a free service that will match your D with potential scholarships based on her grades, scores and ECs. If your D is a busy person who may not read her e-mail much, use your e-mail as the return address for fastweb.com.</p>
<p>Here's a partial list of colleges offering merit aid based on various factors: </p>
<p>Here's a list of colleges with merit aid guaranteed if students have certain qualifications. In some cases, this merit aid would be in addition to need-based aid:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guaranteed-scholarships.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.guaranteed-scholarships.com/</a></p>
<p>The Ivies, in particular HPY, are trying hard to increase their numbers of low-income students, so being low income could be an admissions advantage to your D. All Ivies promise to meet 100% of students' documented financial need. No ivies provide merit aid. H and P are particularly generous with low income applicants, providing scholarship packages with no loans for students with the greatest financial need. At Harvard, such packages are guaranteed for students with family incomes of $40 k a year or less.</p>
<p>Of course, Ivy admissions are difficult since virtually all applicants have stellar stats and ECs, so make sure that she has some back-ups that she can afford and that will offer her a good education. Often the most assured financial safety is one's flagship state university. Many have honors programs and other wonderful perks for students like your D. Just make sure she applies early since often state universities have rolling admission, and even stellar applicants may be rejected or may not get $ if they apply late in the year (which often means after Nov. or Dec.). When freshman classes fill up, state universities close admissions, so don't let your D get caught in this.</p>
<p>or2,</p>
<p>Welcome to CC.</p>
<p>My son was born when I was 19 and his dad was never around for him. Though we aren't low income, I knew paying full fare for college would be impossible for me. </p>
<p>I wonder if you'll get consideration for your own student loans. I think so. I recall the fin aid applications asking if another child OR parent would be attending college. Perhaps a parent attending college will receive the same benefit as an older sibling already attending college. </p>
<p>As others have said, seriously consider private colleges where they fully meet your need. Try the fin aid calculators at CollegeBoard.com and princeton.edu. This will give you a VERY rough idea of what aid you might recieve.</p>
<p>Also, when you apply for aid, they'll usually allow you to supply a supplemental statement or explanation of expenses. Take the time to document that you are a single parent and have had no support, financial or otherwise, from you D's dad. If her HS is also aware of this, they can include something about this in the GCs recommendation. </p>
<p>As far as including his income, you have to be more specific to know how to handle that. Do you know where he is? If not, you surely can't get anything from him - money, income statement, etc. If you do know where he is, but he refuses to help, he'll probably have to sign something saying he refuses to help. If he refuses to sign it (on CC we've hard of a few cases where they dad was in the area, but refuised to sign anything and refused to help financially) there must be a way around that. Again, this is where I bet private schools are better....as they can be as flexible as they wish. I've never been asked for my S's dad's income or any sort of non-custodial forms. </p>
<p>Your D sounds talented and wonderful. Don't worry, this isn't as bad as you think. You just have to put thought into how you'll communicate your needs on the fin aid app and put time into being crisp and clear - not wordy. Remember: the fin aid people are not psychologists - they don't need to hear your woes. </p>
<p>Give them the right numbers to work with and they'll come up with a solution for you. But, you have to give them what they need. Be specific and think about what will change from the time you apply til the time you pay for that year. Will your medical insurance increase? Do you expect your income to adjust? What out of pocket medical expenses do/will you have? </p>
<p>If I were you, my approach would be to apply to plenty of schools - Ivies, top LAC, top merit awarding schools, etc. It's really too soon to know where she'll fit best and who might offer her money. But, if she continues on her current path she should be fine. </p>
<p>As a top performer, she's unique in that she's from a low-income, signle parent home. That counts for something and adcoms will pay attention to her, as she's demonstrating her ability to perform exceptionally well in the face of adversity. </p>
<p>Stick around CC!! This place is like having your own, private college counselor - with humor. :)</p>
<p>Best Wishes!</p>
<p>Or2, first, congratulations on your accomplishments, your D's accomplishments and especially on your pending graudation. </p>
<p>I'm also a sole supporting single mother, D with similar accomplishments, and absent father. D is now a junior in a top USNWR school. A few things - first, for some reason, the issue of the father's income has never come up, not on applications, or later in the verification process. I'm guessing this is because we did not marry; I'm further guessing that if there is a marriage this issue gets very tangled, but I cannot speak to it. </p>
<p>Second, your D will surely get lots of merit aid, especially from private schools. (Mine attends one of those $40K/year schools; the first two years I paid about $9,000 against an EFC of about $13,000; this year, I paid nothing, owing to the athletic department picking up the difference. Next year I expect to pay somewhere near my EFC. Fifth year, when she will be completing her second undergrad degree, I am not sure what will happen, but am planning to probably starve that year.) </p>
<p>Third, the achievement of your own degree will surely increase your career options, and by consequence your earning power. I think the aggregate numbers are something like 26%.</p>
<p>Fourth, there are surely some considerations in financial award packages when the head of household is also paying back loans. Failing that, there are always avenues of appeal, Letters of Special Circumstances, etc. </p>
<p>Last - perhaps this may be a very foolish position - but I stand by my results - I have always encouraged D to reach for the stars, promising that if she achieves entrance to any particular college or other opportunity, the money WILL be found. (We live in an area where the public schools are very poor quality and the projected gifted and IB program funding has always been dicey, so I have always paid for private school.) </p>
<p>I live by the philosophy that "if the 'why to' is valid, strong, and true, the 'how to' will happen": I resolved long ago that I would find some way to pay for it all, including the support D will need for post-bacc and perhaps graduate school or terminal degree, even if it means living in a box under an overpass and pooling resources with the homeless. I'm joking of course - but only slightly - I will throw it all over the side and use every last dollar, leverage every resource within my reach, and make every possible sacrifice to support D's education. </p>
<p>My advice to you is something like this: first, evict all of the worry from your mind space. I'm not saying bury your head in the sand or ignore financial realities, but you must some way to silence the worry, or it will become paralyzing, and it will get in your way of achieving the things you need to do to support her. You simply cannot allow the worry to rent space in your head - and I do know what you're talking about, because I've been silencing the exact same worry for 20 years. Allowed to take root in your mind, this worry can become a very corrosive cancer, destroying hope and critical motivation, robbing you of energy, health, and well being, and perhaps even infecting your daughter. </p>
<p>Second, encourage D to apply to the schools that she is very interested in, and that will be a good fit for her. Don't even think about the money at this point. I know this sounds very irresponsible, or perhaps even insane, but once the acceptances and award packages come in, you can sit down together and spreadsheet them all, and make decisions accordingly. This strategy worked flawlessly for us and D had three very strong choices in the financially acceptable column; in the end, final visits to these schools made the matriculation decision very easy. One school in particular was easy to discount - they wanted me to pay $19 K, which I would have done, and assured D it was her choice. However, when we viewed it through the lens of "value", especially in comparison to other acceptances and relational financial offers, it was a "no brainer" to take that school off the list. </p>
<p>Third, just in case, encourage her to apply to one "can't miss" safety - a school that is a financial safety, but one that she would be satisfied with attending. You very likely will not "need" it, but you will both feel better knowing it's there. This will most likely be your state school. </p>
<p>Last - I've pontificated long enough probably - please have confidence; please know that you WILL find a way. I'm a high school drop out, last formal education 9th grade; I own a lovely home, earn an income over six figures, and we have zero debt except mortgage. There are no living relatives and I have no siblings - no other means of support or income, and of course not one dime of child support. Every dollar and asset we have is a result of what I have been able to earn in the open market - even during a recession, and even in a region where the per capita income is one of the lowest in the U.S. If I can get it done, anyone can; but I do have to say that D's very presence - plus her accomplishments - are a powerfully motivating factor. </p>
<p>When I visit the beautiful, vibrant campus where D spends her days, and I see all of the wonderful, exciting opportunities within her reach, and especially when I see her engage deeply in the opportunities her school offers, it makes me so happy I usually start to cry from sheer joy, and I return home from such visits exploding with the energy to execute the work required to ensure the revenue flows and the financial foundation is solid, both for her undergrad right now, and whatever additional education she desires beyond. Trust me when I tell you that I will move heaven and earth to make it so, and with great pleasure, as I consider supporting D's education an honor and a priviledge. </p>
<p>Everything is going to be o.k. - you'll see.</p>
<p>I have nothing to add, as so much wonderful knowledge, advice, wisdom and support has been offered. </p>
<p>But I cannot leave this thread without saying welcome to the OP, and..... without reiterating what a wonderful place this board is. When someone is in need of information, support and guidance, if they come here, they will get it. I am proud to be a part of this cyberworld.</p>
<p>"Second, your D will surely get lots of merit aid, especially from private schools."</p>
<p>Keep in mind, however, that the above will happen only if your D applies to schools offering merit aid (not all colleges do), and if she's among the category of students who are most desired by the college. That typically means that she must be in the very top of the applicant pool, which means that reach schools are unlikely to offer merit aid.</p>
<p>Here is a clarification I got from an ivy league school:</p>
<p>
[quote]
... the 10 highly selective private /universities/ that practice need-blind admissions and provide ONLY need-based financial aid (no merit scholarships, no athletic scholarships) are the eight Ivy League universities, plus MIT and
Wesleyan University.(There may be colleges that have a similar
financial aid system...)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not to start a big discussion of this distinction, but you will just have to understand that with the Ivies you will have to rely on need-based financial aid, while there will likely be many other schools that will be aggressively pursuing your D with merit-based scholarships. I think the biggest challenge for your D will be to keep her mind open to various options and not fall in love with one particular "dream" school too early. She will have many great options!</p>
<p>I'm with Latetoschool in that I don't think the dad's income will be such a big deal if they were never married. As I said, I've never been asked for signatures, forms or proof of anything. I'm not sure what I could "prove" if I was asked to. </p>
<p>I also agree with Latetoschool's approach - silence the worry. Go for what your D wants (be sure to have your financial safeties lined up) and remain hopeful that the money will come through. </p>
<p>I'm not just giving lip service - my son applied to Penn ED (binding) and we needed financial aid. I wouldn't have allowed him to do this if I had been more of a pessimist. If you're the sort to worry, this approach might be tough. But, you're a single mom raising an extremely talented daughter, so I think you can handle a gamble. Remember Tom Cruise in the movie "Risky Business"? - the part at the end of the film where he puts on his sunglasses and says "sometimes you just have to say, "What the frock". (he didn't say frock) :)</p>
<p>Or, you can simply tell her not to apply to her dream schools, and you'll be sure of what results will come. ;)</p>
<p>Go for it!</p>
<p>Momsdream,
Am I right that even though you are a single parent, your income is not at poverty level? I am thinking that your gamble in allowing your son to apply ED to Penn might be less of a gamble than is the case with the OP, who seems to be very low income.</p>
<p>If the OP's D's dream school ends up being a place that gives a financial aid package that has even moderate loans, that might be a heavy load to bear for a person from a low income family, particulary if the same young person could have had a full ride plus other perks (paid summer travel, etc.) at another school that she may have liked just as much.</p>
<p>IMO most young people's dream schools are fairly flexible. With the rare exception of teens who seriously desire unusual majors or who have health or other problems requiring unusual accommodations, most young people could be equally happy at many colleges, and could get an equally good education.</p>
<p>I would not suggest applying binding ED to any person for whom finances are a consideration. If a student is outstanding and low income and is applying to the most selective colleges that are need blind, the students will be in a highly desired category anyway and don't need any admissions tip that ED gives. They could, however, benefit from getting a variety of colleges' financial aid offers.</p>
<p>while lawyer is a dirty word to many, the OP definitely needs to talk to one. You can probably talk to one free at your college.</p>
<p>The reason this is important is that according to an ABA site "Courts in some states will require parents to pay for a child's college expenses, assuming the parents can afford it and the child is a good enough student to benefit from college." See <a href="http://www.abanet.org/publiced/practical/childsupport_college.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.abanet.org/publiced/practical/childsupport_college.html</a> </p>
<p>And according to the National Conference on State Legislators website, "Seventeen states make provisions specifically for higher education within their guidelines or in case law. Four states address higher education needs generally within their guidelines without specifying college support." See <a href="http://www.ncsl.org/programs/cyf/legis399.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.ncsl.org/programs/cyf/legis399.htm</a></p>
<p>One other thing -- when you write "Currently she has recieved information from over 65 different colleges including Yale, Brown, John Hopkins" this is flattering but don't overestimate it as an indicator of the college's interest in your daughter. They simply buy lists of high-scoring students who take College Board tests and send out mass-mailings as a marketing tool. It doesn't mean they've taken a personal interest in her. Kids are often surprised when they get such mail (eg. "Harvard wrote me a letter!") and take it as a sign they're being recruited, but its simply a sales tool and means no more than getting a credit-card application in the mail.</p>
<p>In the time/work nomenclature of a single parent home, financial strategies can be very flexible once a child leaves for college. </p>
<p>In the OP's case, the undergrad degree coming spring 2006 will make her more competitive in the job market; also, once D leaves for school, assuming there are no more siblings at home, she can, if she desires, extend her work day and increase the family income.</p>
<p>Obviously, when a student is still at home and in high school, the demand on time - a critical resource - is intense. There are competitions, meetings, events to attend; endless activities that require parental participation or at least presence. This in addition to the running of a household - buying the groceries, preparing meals, getting the oil changed/car maintained, calling up the plumber or the arborist or the roofer, keeping the laundry under control, etc.</p>
<p>Once the student leaves for college, the bills decrease - utilities, groceries, gasoline, etc., and, the single parent's schedule opens up significantly. Even just a simple thing such as a trip to the grocery store becomes a ten-minute event; and the bill drops by more than half. And there aren't a million events, activities and meetings to attend. This means more time that can be focused towards increasing income, which can mean a second job, or simply investing more hours in one's existing profession.</p>
<p>(This doesn't mean a windfall - even with excellent financial aid, the student will still need "soft" financial support - dorm room furnishings and supplies, technology assets, money for travel and group events, etc. We added that stuff to the spreadsheet, including estimated COL for the potential destination cities, assuming scenarios of eventual off-campus housing. So whatever expenses decrease at home simply end up redistributed at school.) </p>
<p>Finally, refocusing on one's profession and generating increased revenue helps significantly to mitigate the impact of the large, suddenly too-quiet empty home, the first few teary trips to the grocery store where the parent must bypass all the favorite foods that would ordinarily go into the cart for the student who is no longer home to share the meal, lol.</p>
<p>I do also agree with Mikemac regarding the mail - do not be impressed by this; D categorized and filed every piece of mail that arrived; our postman complained about the volume of mail that began arriving sophomore year and continued even after matriculation.</p>
<p>D has a very large bedroom with a significant section of work space, and is an obsessive collector, organizer and filer of documents; at the end of it all, we carried - I am not kidding - seven Hefty garbage bags of college marketing mail to the curb.</p>
<p>"In the OP's case, the undergrad degree coming spring 2006 will make her more competitive in the job market; also, once D leaves for school, assuming there are no more siblings at home, she can, if she desires, extend her work day and increase the family income.""</p>
<p>I am not trying to be the resident pessimist, but I have been underwhelmed by the job opportunities in today's market, particularly for middle aged people. Typically, it also takes college grads several months to land a job, and often the jobs they land now are not that well paying.</p>
<p>My thoughts are that it's best to take a conservative approach, and then to be pleasantly surprised if things work out financially better than one had expected.</p>
<p>There really are some excellent colleges such as Emory, Wake Forest, Tulane, Washington University, Brandeis, Rice, Vanderbilt -- that have some fabulous merit aid for students with very high stats, grades and strong ECs. </p>
<p>Some of these colleges offer such fabulous deals -- including paid internships abroad, special mentoring programs -- for their top merit scholarship holders, that even relatively well off students turn down Ivies for these opportunities. For instance, I know an Ivy faculty member whose child turned down an Ivy for a top merit scholarship from a top 30 college, and who is delighted with the college experiences that his child has had.</p>
<p>When it comes to second tier colleges, there are many more options, too. The same goes for state universities. Some are very generous with merit aid, particularly for the top in-state students, and offer a variety of special programs, including special dorms and honors classes, for top recruits.</p>