<p>My daughter's top three schools are currently Pomona, Scripps, and Wash U. She likes them all for different reasons but has no absolute first choice. We were hoping her SAT's, which she took for the first time in October, would be high enough to not need the ED "bump" generally associated with admission to Wash U and probably Pomona. She got a 2120 total, but lopsided: 740 CR, 770 Writing, 610 Math. She plans to major in English, has strong ec's in creative writing (published, several contest winnings, awards from her school, attended Iowa Young Writers' Workshop, contributing writer for local newspaper, EIC of school lit mag) and will likely have excellent rec. letters. Full IB diploma candidate, in top 10% (but just barely) of class in very competitive public IB program, has a few B's in math and science on her record, the rest A's. Department awards in English as top student for 2 years. She took the ACT before with average results (29), but she doesn't have to submit them. SAT II's were 740 (history) and 660 (Spanish). She doesn't want to take any more tests, and I doubt her math score would increase if she did. She's prepped a lot and I think her scores probably reflect what she's capable of. We live in California, not URM, not athlete, not legacy. Question I have for those of you who might know: do you think Pomona and/or Wash U is too much of a reach to not apply early for the ED "bump"? Are we taking too big a risk to apply RD? Any and all thoughts or comments are appreciated.</p>
<p>IMHO, the risk of applying ED to a school your D isn't sure about is larger than the risk of the lopsided score on a RD app.</p>
<p>Is financial aid a consideration? Since she could only go ED to one, how would she choose?</p>
<p>Looking at Pomona stats on USN&WR (WUSTL stats weren't there), I see 19% RD acceptance rate and 30% ED. Using "lies, damn lies and statistics", one could interpret that as a 50% higher chance using ED. On the other hand, to me it looks like 3/10 get in ED; 2/10 get in RD. Is that worth commiting herself if she's not certain?
As many of us have said, many times, here on cc, we see a lot of kids' college choices evolving between October and May; and your D doesn't even have a firm leaning at this point. Points away from ED to me.</p>
<p>Preferred strategy? Apply to these 3 RD and find 3-4 others which she would really be happy at. She has, of course, a very nice chance at Scripps so if she currently likes all 3 equally well, she should have a good outcome in April by adding a couple more she could choose from, so that the world won't end if WUSTL and Pomona don't come through.</p>
<p>Financial aid is not a consideration. She would have to choose on the basis of what she already knows about the schools. She visited them all, liked them all, but sees positives and negatives about each. She liked the size of Wash U, but not the distance from home. She likes the Claremonts distance from home, but is a bit worried about it getting too small over the 4 years. She loved the warm community at Scripps, but has some concerns both about size and some comments she's heard about the girls from the other schools not liking the Scripps women to encroach on the guys from their home school. (!) Wash U and Pomona seem roughly equivalent regarding academic rigor, and Scripps seems just a tad less so, but still plenty challenging. She thinks Pomona or Scripps would be an easier adjustment at first, but that Wash U might feel more interesting later on. How would she choose? She'd have to choose on the basis of the limited information she currently has, which unfortunately leads to no clear single choice. :(</p>
<p>Completing a full IB is not an easy task. Especially because your d has somewhat lopsided interests, her perserverance through IB math and science shows a lot of guts and ability. </p>
<p>I wouldn't rush her to apply ED-- just let her write beautiful apps to all three schools and see what happens. It sounds as if any of the schools would be lucky to get her.</p>
<p>Oh, it seems I saw a thread some time ago about how to choose a college- kind of pragmatic information as well as "gut" information. Does anyone remember that thread or where to find it?</p>
<p>shojomo - I added a bit to my above post while your were posting. You may get varying, and well-informed, points of view from others, but I think those of us here so far think ED is not the right plan for her. She is a very strong candidate and should have great choices in April. An ED deferral or rejection can be a very, very painful thing and can sometimes derail the efforts in the RD round; possibly worth avoiding if there aren't strong reasons to go that route.</p>
<p>Making a decision using "data" as well as gut was discussed in this thread, which I started last April during Decision Month. I really think it is best suited to when a Decision Must Be Made, however. If it's hte process you're thinking of, she might not want to employ it to narrow down schools when she really doesn't need to.
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=51596&highlight=Decide%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=51596&highlight=Decide</a></p>
<p>It sounds as if any of the schools would be lucky to get her.</p>
<p>While I agree with above poster's comment, it could be said about hundreds of kids who will be applying to all three schools -- most of whom will be rejected. I know my advice is not going to be a popular one but here goes. I would have her compose a list of reasons to go and not to go to each school and have her weigh the importance of the reasons. I would say that since your D likes Washington U and her only criticism of it is distance from home, I would advise her to apply ED to bump her chances. Once she is immersed in the college experience, she won't be thinking about/counting the miles away from home. The size being an issue with the other two schools are things that are not likely to change. If she applies ED to Washington U and is rejected, she would most likely be rejected RD. If she applies to Washington U and is deferred, she still has an opportunity to make her case with the admissions committee to gain an acceptance. In fact, my son was deferred from Columbia ED and accepted RD after advising the admissions committee about additional accomplishments as well as continued interest in attending. My son had also gotten RD acceptances from several awesome colleges, but still wanted Columbia in the end.</p>
<p>Unless I am misunderstanding your D's doubts about each college, I would definitely say go for Wash U ED. As I said, I know it's not a popular opinion, but it definitely worked for my S.</p>
<p>"She likes them all for different reasons but has no absolute first choice."</p>
<p>This is telling. I don't see a reason to go for ED. Using it as an admission strategy when a students doesn't have a first choice or doesn't care which one they attend is a mistake. This student is questioning her happiness at each school for various reasons. If she said "they're all great, I love them all, I don't care which one I attend", I might suggest ED. This student is doubtful on certain areas.</p>
<p>The single most important reason to apply to any school ED is to increase your chances of getting accepted to one of your top choices. It's really no mystery why kids apply ED or why it can be very useful. If you only apply RD to your top choices, you have much less of a chance of ending up at one of them.</p>
<p>But if a students is encouraged to apply ED just to try to gain a leg up, and that student isn't sure, their potential for happiness/satisfaction is being compromised. </p>
<p>What's more important - the school accepting your child or your child accepting the school. I just don't see the importance of creating a first choice when there isn't one. </p>
<p>This issue is always subjective and various posters always disagree. Everyone has to know their child.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you only apply RD to your top choices, you have much less of a chance of ending up at one of them.
[/quote]
Well, the "much less of a chance" varies from school to school, which is why I posted the stats for Pomona. Further, there is debate, which I won't try to resolve, about whether applicant pool is stronger anyway at ED; so you may not be able to effectively use the stats to guesstimate your "chances."</p>
<p>Even in CMom's own son's case, ED didn't seem to "work." So, we could go on and on about how "enhancing" it is. The question some are discussing here is whether it's even appropriate for the OP daughter.</p>
<p>Btw, one reason ED can be an enhancement is the "Tufts" syndrome. Schools which are sensititive to being used as a safety for HYPSM etc. <em>do</em> like to see that ED, imho, and there it can really help.</p>
<p>Still, if a kid is busy weighing the pros and cons of different school, the chance that her perspective will change over the weeks and months argues against the binding nature of ED. That price you pay for any boost in chances is a heavy one if you aren't really certain of your choice.</p>
<p>She would have to choose on the basis of what she already knows about the schools. She visited them all, liked them all, but sees positives and negatives about each. </p>
<p>If she likes them all and there is little information to be forthcoming to help "sway" her one way or the other and she definitely wants to go to one of them, I would again recommend ED.</p>
<p>I do feel that ED worked for my son. It is likely that he would have been rejected or waitlisted RD, and his deferral gave him another opportunity to make his case for Columbia.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your thoughts. I guess she has to decide what additional information she needs to make the decision and whether we would get this information if more time were available. I'm not sure what additional information is needed, although I imagine another visit to each school might be helpful. I've heard some on this board (and elsewhere) comment on their child's maturation as a factor in changing college choices. Someone told my daughter that Wash U admissions selection rate is 19%, the same for both ED and RD, but that 40% of the enrolled freshman class comes from ED. I interpret this to mean that many of the students accepted RD choose not to attend. Do you think this is a correct interpretation?</p>
<p>I don't know if I overlooked something, but has your d. done an overnight at any of these 3 schools? I think its very risky to do ED without one: my d. totally changed her thinking about an ED school after visiting overnight. That being said, if the distance is the only factor weighing against Wash U., and finances would not be an inhibiting factor in making some spontaneous visits home i(f necessary), then that would also have my vote if she does decide to do ED at one.</p>
<p>She has NOT done any overnights anywhere. We saw Wash U on her spring break last year and we were there on a Saturday. She didn't attend classes, but we did the info session, tour, and went to an acappella concert on campus that night. We spent a whole day (tour, talked to a lot of students) at Scripps, including a class. We did the tour and info session at Pomona and spent a bit of time wandering around, eating in the dining hall, talking to students. We were there on a Thursday night and it was pretty dead. We seem to have the least first hand feel for Pomona. We've read all the newspapers we can get our hands on, talked to students from our area who are presently there, and attended all the info sessions and receptions that come to our town. Having said all that, she's never done an overnight.
Donemom, why would Wash U have your vote?</p>
<p>Just a couple of points about ED.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Both Pomona and WUSTL have an EDII.</p></li>
<li><p>You have to be careful with the ED statistics, especially at smaller schools such as Pomona. While the absolute number of acceptances and enrollment seems pretty stable, it is hard to predict the number of applications. It is typical to see two-year cycles where a high rate of admission in Y1 is followed by a much lower rate the following year. For the class of 2008, Pomona is supposed to have accpeted 123 out 299 students (that is above 40%.) This year has not been announced it, but it could be quite different. </p></li>
<li><p>I do not think that WUSTL ED and RD rates are the same. WUSTL is supposed to have admitted 231 out of 683 candidates -at least for the class of 2008.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>She may well need the ED bump at Pomona or Wash U, but if she doesn't significantly favor either over Scripps I'd follow the suggestion above. . . add 3-4 strong LACs to the mix and apply to all RD. She's in at Scripps, so any other options will be gravy, and she'll have time to sort those options out.</p>
<p>English majors are well-served at many LACs and smaller private Unis. . .schools like Carleton, Oberlin, Northwestern, Kenyon etc aren't too far away and excellent choices for her. Out your way USC has an interesting department, too.</p>
<p>xiggi, the numbers you are providing are ED numbers, correct? What is the source of these data?</p>