Lost (College) Freshman--Needs Check on Reality

Parents Forum
1

<p>Wow, I had no idea how to title this thread. Hopefully that fits. </p>

<p>I tried to make this short...but I'm a bit verbose. </p>

<p>I wanted to be premed for a very long time. But I see life as a series of tradeoffs and there were some things about becoming a doctor that I wasn't sure about that I felt were balanaced and overruled by other things I'm not going to go into---but then realized halfway through 2nd semester this year that the path to becoming one is much more of an uphill battle than I anticipated and the balance tipped heavily out of its favor and I gave it up. </p>

<p>This semester I signed up for Oragnic Chemistry, Cell&Molecular Bio, Statistics, and an English class. With the exception of my english class, I discovered that I found my classes absolutely boring. Not in a "it's easy", but in a "this doesn't interest me" sort of way and it was frustrating. I found that I was studying for a grade, not because I actually found the knowledge interesting, as I had done in high school, which was frustrating because I chose my university because of its open curriculum. Though I had done well in the small pond that was my high school, I couldn't keep up with my classmates in biology or organic chemistry. While I was used to riding out the curve in high school, I found that despite the effort I was putting in, I was coming out at the bottom of the pack in these two classes. To make matters worse, I had a really bad virus and was really badly sick at one point during the semester, living in health services and put on bed rest for over a week, and I fell horrbly behind and never really managed to catch up. </p>

<p>I dropped biology once I recovered healthwise because I realized I couldn't handle the workload at that point and wanted to redirect my efforts towards organic chemistry. The problem is that despite all my efforts in organic chemistry...I might very well fail the class this semester. I got 6% on our last exam(the class average was a 40%, std dev of 19) and I have a final to go. This brings me down to a total of 2 classes this semester and I must say that I am demoralized. I got 2 A's and 2 B's last semester(almost 3 A's...but I made a dumb mistake regarding one class)...so to compare this to this semester(1 A, 1 pass--it's a forced pass/fail class, doesn't give grades, and two drops) is tough. </p>

<p>I came from a good high school that frequently sends its top students onto competitive colleges where they do well. So it's not as if I'm "behind" there. I'm not one of the kids that got in with weaker academic qualifications for other reasons--it was mentioned in my admissions letter that my academic performance in high school was a big part of my admission. While I didn't live in the library, it's not as if I partied my way through the semester, either.</p>

<p>Even in high school, I was always significantly stronger in other subjects, but since high school hard science isn't that difficult I ignored my comparative weakness in it, but now that I'm in college, I find that I can't cut it.</p>

<p>My parents are incredibly upset/worried that I have basically changed course and left premed and the sciences for areas that won't guarantee me a good job out of college and that I don't necessarily have a "game plan" for life anymore.</p>

<p>I kind of prefer the fact that I don't have a "plan" anymore because now I don't feel constricted, but due to the high cost of my education, my parents are very unhappy that I've become one of those "wandering hippie" children. But part of me is optimistic that it'll turn out alright in the end. I have employable skills---I'm good at writing, good at speaking, and have been told by many people, including teachers, that I have good people skills. I keep reminding myself that compared to the rest of the population, I'm still smart. </p>

<p>My current plan(which my parents kind of detest) is to start taking courses in anthropology and cognitive science, where I actually have genuine interest(I'm willing to read those coursebooks for fun). I figure that my grades will be a lot better if I actually like the things I'm learning about. I realize that job prospects for anthro and/or cog sci majors aren't the best college, but somehow I have faith that with my skills I'll be able to figure something out. </p>

<p>MY QUESTION IS:
Is that overly optimistic? My dad is upset that I've "given up" and wants me to "toughen up" and "tough it out" back in the sciences(though not necessarily premed) and my mom wants me to do computer science(which I'm not interested in) or law(which I might do, but don't want to commit to yet.) I just turned 18 recently. I don't feel as if I should have to have an absolute plan set just yet and think I might figure it out sometime in the next 3 years(or...after graduation even...), but I'm feeling extremely pressured and extremely stressed and honestly just really upset(I'm definetly not happy about my fail...)</p>

<p>Sorry if I wrote too much...I just wanted to be clear. Thanks.</p>

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<p>If you really want to be a doctor over everything else, sweating out the premed curriculum might be fine for you.</p>

<p>Otherwise, ignore your parents and take what interests you. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to take classes you both find overly difficult and uninteresting.</p>

<p>One of the things you'll eventually have to deal with at college is refusing your parents, because they're going to have some ideas of their own about what you should be doing that you're just not going to agree with. I had to do that in the fall when I dropped a class that was both boring and difficult for me - similar situation as you - and my Dad told me he really didn't want me to. Took me about 2 hours of thinking and then I called him back and basically responded that while I respect him and took his opinion seriously, I disagreed and was going to drop the class as I had planned.</p>

<p>I suggest you do similarly. Be respectful of your parents' wishes; comfort them that you're not going to end up living in a box for the rest of your life just because you didn't take orgo, and then go take what you feel interested and passionate about. It's as simple as that.</p>

3

<p>Well, I'm not sure if what I say will help much, but maybe it will make your mother happy. If you decide (down the road) to pursue law school, all you need to do is major in whatever you want that interests you and that you'll do well in. There is no set major or course selection that is required. I was a fine arts major before going to law school, my husband was an anthropology major before going to law school, a friend was a psychology major, etc. So maybe you're not as far off track as you think?</p>

4

<p>You can also just focus on general ed requirements, getting a smattering of various subjects to see what you love.</p>

<p>yes, premeds frequently try to get their MCAT req done by the end of year two so they can take their MCAT that summer, BUT if you take the GE classes and later decide science & medicine is for you, you will have a much better chance to even get in to med school if your grades are high- an F is not a good thing ;)</p>

<p>So, if you take a meandering path, but it results in higher grades and a self-proclaimed commitment to the sciences, the result is much better than if you grit your teeth and survive the classes.</p>

5

<p>justbreathe - I'm so sorry things aren't working out the way you hoped. But really, you're way too young to be taking this all on yourself. I'm sure others will have better advice than this, but may I suggest seeing your Organic professor and asking him/her for a frank assessment of your abilities in the topic? You may be pleasantly surprised. (My Organic prof used to say "I aim for a mean of 50 on my exams. That way I get the widest dispersion of scores." Gee thanks, so my 28 translates to C+?)</p>

6

<p>"Oragnic Chemistry, Cell&Molecular Bio, Statistics, and an English class"
As a freshman?
Wow.
Just, ....wow.
No wonder you felt overwhelmed and are now kind of lost. Taking a wider variety of classes next year would still put you on track for most schools with a bio or chem major plus give you some feeling for what you really want. Does your school require some general distribution classes that you could use to explore next year (since they are required for graduation anyway?)</p>

7

<p>My D went through a similar epiphany this year! She was always very good in the sciences, but she realized that she really did not like them at all. After a lot of soul searching, she has decided on a totally different course of study. She is so excited now about the wonderful classes she will be taking, and she has been researching several great, interesting careers that she might be interested in pursuing. She wants a job that will pay the bills, of course, but she doesn't feel the need to make a ton of money. She may well find a lucrative career, and she may simply find a comfortable career. The important thing is, she will be happy with her life. </p>

<p>I think that's the most important thing. Of course, I'm not rich ... not poor ... so she hasn't been raised to "need" things that she can't afford without a surgeon's salary.</p>

8

<p>{{{hug}}}</p>

<p>Been there, done that. Your parents are no doubt worried that you may be throwing over your life purpose because of a hard semester. On the other hand, I think it is fantastic to figure out that you don't like something before you are too heavily invested in it to quit. It may be rough for awhile as you find a new path, but you've got to remember that they love you and they will still love you whatever you decide to do with your life. </p>

<p>I think it is time to back off of pre-med and take classes that will fulfill your general ed requirements, but let you explore some different areas. This is also a great time to look for some internships (unpaid, even) to allow you to check out some areas beforehand. The life of a doctor is just too demanding and too hard if you aren't sure you want it.</p>

<p>BTW, many, many, many years ago, I made a D in organic and had to retake it. No one knows or cares now. :-) It is <em>extremely</em> hard to go straight into organic from AP Chem. Just make sure you go to your professor and see if there is anything at all you can do to bring up your grade first. You might be surprised that he is quite willing to work with you.</p>

9

<p>Your dilemmas are probably going to play out themselves. If you do poorly in O-chem, it is really going to cut down your chances of getting into med school. O-chem is course renowned for doing that, by the way. If you can salvage that grade, some how, I suggest taking time away from the science grind, taking some courses you can enjoy, and then try taking one premed type course in your mix. You don't need to major in sciences to be premed. Just take it easy in taking those courses needed for med school, and do well in your school subjects. Many kids I know are waiting till they finish college and then taking premed courses one at a time to get the marks in them they need for med school. </p>

<p>If you really despise these courses, and medicine/sciences are not your thing, looking for other venues is the way to go. You can explain to your parents that you are burning your medschool/science bridges to take these courses in your current state of mind, and that right now you need to get those grades in good shape, and that you will consider taking another science course once you recover from this term which has not been good in terms of grades.</p>

10

<p>I'll include this in an edit...</p>

<p>but my school doesn't have general education requirements. You can probably figure this out by searching my past posts, so I might as well say it now that I go to Brown University, where grad requirements consist of 1)Passing 30 Classes, 2)Completing a concentration.
At this point, as long as I make sure to pass 4 classes each semester for the rest of the college, I'm set...I can also take 5 some semesters to make up for it. </p>

<p>I am solidly done with premed and no longer want to be a doctor. I had been unsure for a while due to other considerations(completely unrelated to academics)--it's the struggle in the courses that forced me to finally take a hard look at whether or not I really wanted to do this(and the answer was no--even if the courses were easy). </p>

<p>I won't actually have an F...it just gets wiped from my records and it looks like I only took 2 classes for the semester(though any grad school can figure out what that means). </p>

<p>I know what my interests are. I'm guided by what I choose to read about, stop to read about, and pursue in conversation and random thinking in my free time. I had created a list of classes I found interesting before going to college...and did so again the other day...they still matched up...and most fell straight into the Cognitive Science requirements, including the random anthropology courses I was looking at too. Notably, only one course(Genetics) was a course in A)the hard sciences or B)premed reqs and none were in areas my parent were hoping I'd pursue(engineering...computer science...) </p>

<p>I realize that my parents have something of a point. I've somewhat enviously watched computer science concentrating sophomores here get very cushy internships for the summer. I've noticed articles talking about how the job market isn't that great for college grads, so I do wonder if I should be worried. Friends my age say I'll be fine---as my best friend puts it, knowing me as he has for the past five years, he expects me to end up in some totally bizarre unconventional job that you never knew existed until you had it. I mean, failing a class is pretty bad. Normally I'm the type of person who is upset over a B.</p>

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<p>Consider taking a computer science course, one that requires programming. (Yeah, I'm serious!)</p>

<p>My biggest college regret is that I went into college thinking "job training," so majored in something practical that could get me a job. (I ended up graduating with the something practical degree, but immediately got a job in another field for which my college qualification was 8, count 'em, 8 college credits.)</p>

<p>It would have been better for me to explore, to have had more confidence that the job thing would work its way out. (It did for all my drama, history, journalism, English, music majors friends, after all!)</p>

<p>So go take what you want to take, and don't feel bad for changing your mind nor for exploring new areas!</p>

12

<p>You are a good writer and a good thinker, and I bet you'd like both anthropology and cognitive science very much. Take both, to start with! You can go in many different directions using either one as a base. You could even put them together in the study of human-computer interaction, if that interests you at all. But either one will sharpen your analytical and writing skills in ways that will be useful to you no matter what you do.</p>

<p>Probably you will find cognitive science more science-y in its approach to framing problems and methods, and anthropology is more humanistic and interpretive, though it's grounded in commitments to gathering good data. I predict that you will have lots of fun exploring both, and both can lead to good, interesting jobs.</p>

13

<p>Anthropology and cognative science can always lead to law school if you want, or maybe you'll do so well you'll go on in those fields. I think you're on the right track. It's not unusual to stumble badly freshman year, but it sounds like you'll be fine. I also took a completely different track freshman year from my original plans when like you I realized the courses I hated most were the ones in my prospective major.</p>

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<p>I agree with the poster who said that you overloaded yourself. HS chemistry classes, no matter how good, usually do not prepare students for taking organic chemistry in their freshman year. The biggest problems with pre-meds, I think, is that kids tend to rush things. "Oh, I'll use my AP/IB credits or whatever to skip the prerequisites and jump directly into org. chem., that way I will be done and over with it sooner." It does not work that way. Science is best studied in the same sequence it was being discovered by the human civilizations. First, you need some solid understanding of physics and physical chemistry, then some background in inorganic chemistry, and only then you can jump into organic chemistry with confidence and get your well-deserved A. In the organic chemistry labs and quiz sections that I have taught as a graduate student, those pre-meds who cut corners did not do well. My best students usually were the ones who took their time and went through the prerequisite pathway recommended by the department.</p>

<p>There is really no shame in disliking certain subjects. As a fershman, I was undecided between biology and chemistry, leaning more towards biology. Taking an invertebrate zoology course killed my desire to become a biologist: the amount of memorization turned me off completely. Go ahead and use your next semester for exploration of what you like - you still have time to choose your major.</p>

<p>Re: cushy internships. MSFT over here is known as a great place for undergrad internships. If you look on their website, you do not have to be a CS major to get one. There are even some internships in human resources at MSFT!</p>

15

<p>For the record actually, MOST people in organic chemisty at our school are freshmen. That's the sequence at Brown and the sequence we're told to take by the premed advisors and the chemistry department. We take one semester of General Chemistry(CH0330) in the fall,then first semester Organic Chem in the spring and second semester Organic Chemistry the next fall. I didn't skip ahead---there aren't any other courses to take before organic chemistry here. I did the only prerequisite they had(CH0330) in the fall...In fact, first semester Organic Chemistry is a prerequisite for courses like physical chemistry. </p>

<p>I'm not sure how I overloaded myself?</p>

16

<p>. . . words from St. Francis de Sales</p>

<p>Your realization that you need to find your own way tells me that you have already learned a great deal in your time at Brown, perhaps the single most important thing you will learn in your four years. You have already gotten your money's worth so the rest of your time is like a baseball game that goes into extra innings - free baseball! There are a great many lawyers and doctors and bond traders and Northeast Regional Sales Managers who are miserable and don't know why (or who do know why but think they are impossibly trapped). I should note, however, that there are a great many lawyers, doctors, bond traders, and regional sales managers who are contented and satisfied because they did find their own way. The secret is figuring out who you are and how to be that and then using it to make positive contributions to our world. </p>

<p>You are well on your way. Your parents mean well -- they are just caught up in their natural parental instincts to want to see you be successful and secure and that you will be able to get through life on your own. They've just got a little case of tunnel vision or can't see the forest for the trees or (fill in a cliche here). They will come to understand in time as they see you become who you are and as you be that well.</p>

<p>You are at one of the best schools in the country for the kind of intellectual, moral, personal exploration you seek. I generally don't favor the Ivies because there are so many other schools that can give an equal or better experience for significantly less money, but, if it really is the best fit for you, and not just another status symbol on the way to being the lawyer, doctor, or bond trader, then it is worth it. You are in a good place for you.</p>

<p>Oh, and my son (sophomore at William & Mary) has found he loves anthropology, too. He added it as a second major (along with English, his long-time first choice). Whether he becomes a journalist (I think that is still the plan) or an anthropologist or an anthopological journalist (or is it journalistic anthropologist?) doesn't matter as long as it is who he is. After that, everything else will take care of itself. </p>

<p>You are going to have a great four years!</p>

<p>--K9Leader</p>

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<p>You could be my D in one year! Although she would never start with organic chem. BTW, if I remember correctly, I got D's or C's (retaken?) in General and/or Organic Chem ( I graduated HS a semester early and took Chem the summer between my first and second semester) and I've been practicing medicine for 25 years.... Maybe that's why I'm still practicing...</p>

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<p>My son is also a freshman at Brown, taking Organic Chem. ALthough he has always loved sciences and has a strong Chem background, Orgo just doesn't interest him. I believe the average on the last 2 tests was about a 40. He has scored above the average, but still is worried about his final grade. Seems the teacher isn't using a scale according to the "average" grade, but is using a predetermined number for passing (announced before any tests were given). I'm curious to see how this all plays out.</p>

<p>I think most Brown students take Orgo 2nd semester because they arrive at college with strong backgrounds (AP Chem 4/5, SATII Chem scores 700-800 range). I believe there may be an introductory Chem class to start with (before taking Chem 033) for those with weaker backgrounds.</p>

<p>College is about learning and some of that learning is how to pull yourself up again when you get knocked down. Hang in there and just do your best. I changed my major numerous times (began bio/pre-med) as did many of my classmates. Find what inspires you. Brown is the perfect place to do that... This semester has been a learning experience for my son, too. He thought it would be interesting to take 4 science classes, and a lab. He knows better now. </p>

<p>You can always take a summer class to catch up.</p>

19

<p>In terms of Orgo Chem itself:
I also arrived at Brown with what you describe as a "strong" chemistry background---AP Chem 4(though close to a 5, since I tended to score one or the other on practice exams), SAT II 730, and Chem 0330 was a breeze. Part of the problem is that I'm an incredibly weak visualizer---I don't even visualize things when I read books and I tend to actually skim/jump right over descriptions of the setting when I read novels(simply because it doesn't do anything for me. I can't picture it w/out considerable effort anyway). I have a model kit, but I have a hard time connecting the model with the page, or even understanding what's going on in the model either, and we don't have enough time on exams to build a model for everything. I've never been able to understand orbital theory very well---I've failed about every question related to it in general chemistry in 9th grade, AP chemistry in 10th grade, and general chemistry 1st semester this year(though I tried to learn). Despite my efforts all semester, stereochemistry still doesn't make much sense to me. In general, I tend to find all tasks in life that require visualization a problem.</p>

<p>Re: The idea of a summer class.
I can't afford it financially, unfortunately. I can barely afford Brown. </p>

<p>My worry:</p>

<p>Apparently if I fail organic chemistry, I will be put on "Academic Warning", which will be marked on my permanent transcript. If I catch up, I'll be taken off of academic warning, but the mark will still remain. I'm a little worried as to how this is going to look post-graduation. </p>

<p>My thanks:
Thank you everyone for all of your feedback, it's been really comforting. I've read over your post many many times over the past whatever hours. I'm feeling lost and rather scared(because I'm normally not someone anyone would ever expect to be on academic warning...I'm pretty sure had I taken classes that I actually liked, I wouldn't be) so you have all been really helpful. It's better coming from adults, who have a different perspective.</p>

20

<p>"I am solidly done with premed and no longer want to be a doctor. I had been unsure for a while due to other considerations(completely unrelated to academics)--it's the struggle in the courses that forced me to finally take a hard look at whether or not I really wanted to do this(and the answer was no--even if the courses were easy)."<br>
This is why I am concerned with kids who sign up for the BS/MD programs some schools offer. All my life I wanted to be a veterinarian (or at least from age 8), graduated near the top of my high school class, enrolled in UCD and discovered that wasn't going to happen, so I can understand how you may feel, justbreathe. Now I am watching my own kids "discover" new majors that they had never considered.<br>
Awhile ago watched an interview with Mike Marriner from <a href="http://www.roadtripnation.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.roadtripnation.com&lt;/a> that was pretty inspiring. Mike thought he wanted to go to med school, had top grades in college and then after graduation discovered that wasn't what he really wanted to do. He ended up with the wonderful creation that is now roadtrip nation. Check it out- it sounds like you
"as my best friend puts it, knowing me as he has for the past five years, he expects me to end up in some totally bizarre unconventional job that you never knew existed until you had it."</p>