Lost (College) Freshman--Needs Check on Reality

Parents Forum
21

<p>justbreathe,</p>

<p>You have to find the "thing" that floats your boat. many people, myself included when I was your age, "thought" a career was the ultimate goal, and in the years that have passed got my career, it fulfilled what I thought I was striving for, however, my "career" had morphed into something I DETEST, not because I changed, but the industry I was in changed into something I can not stand.</p>

<p>Now I do what I LOVE. Funny enough, it wound up being something I did when I was about 10 years old, and spent all my waking hours doing, but now I get paid for it, and it doesn't seem like a job at all. </p>

<p>That to me is what life is about, this is your chance to "find" who you are and what you can see yourself doing hours on end and enjoy it.</p>

<p>You are still very young so don't beat yourself up for one bad class, it isn't the end of the world. </p>

<p>I have spent the past 18 months probing my child with questions,questions I wished my parents would have posed to me,mostly rhetorical in nature to get her to do some self analysis of her favorite things she likes to do. Trying to help her bypass all the years of self doubt I had and not finding myself till I was much older and wiser. </p>

<p>I loved to read as a kid, all day every waking moment. When I chose a career, it had some reading involved but alot of people interaction, I found that part annoying when I preferred to be reading about it rather than the people part.
Just another experience here, and hopefully some self reflection may point you in the right direction. </p>

<p>Another thing I found VERY helpful during my transitions/doubts, was writing about it, only for my eyes, when I would look back on that writing, it would put many things into perspective.</p>

22

<p>I, too, do not like those combined ba/md programs for the same reasons. I know a gifted young woman who turned down several schools that would have been great experiences for her to go to a primarily commuter school in another state because of their dual program. Great until she changed her mind about med school. Could not transfer because of aid issues. Transfers usually do not get much in aid.</p>

23

<p>Justbreathe,
your situation is by no means unique - well over 50% of students that start out as premeds drop it down the road (usually during freshman year), because they realize they can't cut it. In your case, you are also not interested in the subjects. Going to Brown and taking the classes you hate just does not make any sense.</p>

<p>Unlike most "premed dropouts", you actually have some pretty good idea of what you ARE interested in. I would recommend following that path (and taking some classes in other disciplines). Your course load was tough, but not ridiculous, and if you could not do it, I doubt "toughening up" will help much.</p>

24

<p>Justbreathe, everyone who went to my college had been a top student in high school. Translated, that means that C's were not in our personal alphabet ... but many of my friends ended up flunking a class somewhere along the line (tough engineering school, back in the dark ages when it wasn't unheard of for good students to get bad grades). They just took an overload the next semester & sucked it up. Personally, while I did not flunk any classes, I had a couple brushes with the possibility. It just made me work harder to figure out how to make things work for me. </p>

<p>A freshman year failure should not hurt you in the long run, especially if you find your niche in a non-hard-science field. I know that there are some companies that only take the 4.0 students ... but rest assured, there are plenty of companies/grad schools who recognize that a Brown grad with a lower gpa is still a great bet!</p>

25

<p>
[quote]
I've never been able to understand orbital theory very well---I've failed about every question related to it in general chemistry in 9th grade, AP chemistry in 10th grade, and general chemistry 1st semester this year(though I tried to learn). Despite my efforts all semester, stereochemistry still doesn't make much sense to me. In general, I tend to find all tasks in life that require visualization a problem.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>A-ha, I see you nailed down the source of your problems with organic chemistry. Are you absolutely sure you are not a good "visualizer" or you think you are not good at it because you've failed a few times and just gave up? Two different things. How did you do in your HS geometry class?</p>

<p>Orbitals, hybridization and stereochemistry are critical to good understanding of organic chemistry. BTW, I went over your course page which also had some sample exams in it, and did not find anything outrageous. A smart person who "gets" the abovementioned concepts down should do OK in this course. You sound like a smart kid who did not get a good grasp of the concepts. Did you use professor' office hours to address your weak spots? I'd love to give you a couple of lessons on the subject, but I'm afraid I'm located too far from RI. So try to use your locally available resources. It might be too late for this course, but in the future, if a concept does not want to enter your brain and stay there, a visit to the professor's office might help. Do not be afraid to ask questions - there are no dumb questions.</p>

26

<p>Thought of this? Mount</a> Sinai - Humanities and Medicine Early Acceptance Program</p>

<p>My friend was also overwhelmed with her chem bio classes that she dropped premed after first semester of her sophomore year but she still wanted to try to be a doctor so her advisor suggested his. Now she's been accepted, she spent last summer taking physics and doing lab rotations/job shadowing while majoring in English at her college. Now she's going to take a year off before hitting up med school.</p>

27

<p>I wish I had used office hours earlier, though I know that at this point it's a bit too late. That's an important lesson I've learned. I don't have any adult figures in my life that I've ever been able to turn to for...anything at all besides money really so now that I actually have resources I don't think to use them. </p>

<p>I'm not sure what I'm looking for here...except, admittingly, I suppose, some comfort. I realize that the tests aren't ridiculous and that the courseload isn't ridiculous, which is part of why I've been really upset. I feel like I should be able to grasp it, yet don't and it's been a huge blow to my sense of self. I've grown up being told by my parents that my academic strenghs were the only good things about me and that I am a worthless human being otherwise and while I can rationally realize that that's not true and say that they're wrong, emotionally I'm still a wreck and have spent a good part of the last two days at the edge of or in tears. </p>

<p>I'm trying to rationalize this all and assure myself that in the end it's not a big deal and that life will go on and that there are much larger problems out there and that I'm going to be just fine. All of you have been really helpful in reassuring me that I'm right in thinking that I can turn this around. </p>

<p>"Are you absolutely sure you are not a good "visualizer" or you think you are not good at it because you've failed a few times and just gave up? Two different things. How did you do in your HS geometry class?"</p>

<p>It was actually things from everyday life that clued me into the lack of visualization, so I didn't give up. There are just small things that I don't do that apparently other ppl do all the time that I've slowly realized over the years wasn't the norm. Like I once heard that ppl think in pictures? That sounds bizarre to me. I only see pictures in my mind when I dream. It also wasn't until I was 15 that I realized that people actually apparently(correct me if I'm wrong, this is just on what I've heard from people) like have images of characters in their mind from books they read. Actually I'm curious, do any of you actually have full-form images of theoretical people like you do with real people? I'm still confused as to how this works. Is it like a vague image or an actual image? When I think of characters, I just think of the words that the author listed "short, blonde, thin" rather than actually picturing a person that is short, blonde, and thin. I see the words rather than an image. I didn't realize its connection to the things I struggled with academically until more recently. </p>

<p>My school district integrated algebra with geometry. I learned how to solve geometry problems in a rote sort of way. For a long time I just found the numbers and entered it into the formula without understanding the formula. It's difficult to explain, but I didn't actually get the connection between the formula for the volume for a cylinder until 7 years after I started using it. It was a huge exciting revelation when I got it, but I kind of just took the formulas "on faith"(If these teachers are telling me that somehow these variables really do multiply like this to indicate the volume, then I guess it does)--I still don't actually understand why, for example, the equation for the area of a triangle is what it is. I know that it works, but I don't really know why. The district really focused on algebra(which I loved) rather than geometry anyway, so I never really dealt with it too much.</p>

28

<p>Do not worry about your parents' aspirations for you, they, like many parents, are probably unaware of the many satisfying, useful careers outside the standard doctor/lawyer type. Your course load does not wow me, it just sounds like a combination of dislike for the subject matter and the need to learn something you dislike caught up with you. Glad to hear you are dropping the idea of becoming a physician since you would face a life of subject material you dislike. Your interests are valid major material, pursue them, they have career potential. Remember to utilize your campus advising services, I'm sure you can take a series of tests that help you find a career fit. You should be able to learn how your particular set of strengths and weaknesses fit with various fields and choose among them to maximize your strengths and interests. Both interest and ability count, lacking both doesn't work at all. The fact that you do have interests means you have a goal to pursue. Your parents will adjust their thinking, live your dream, not theirs.</p>

29

<p>"I've grown up being told by my parents that my academic strenghs were the only good things about me and that I am a worthless human being otherwise and while I can rationally realize that that's not true and say that they're wrong, emotionally I'm still a wreck and have spent a good part of the last two days at the edge of or in tears."</p>

<p>Oh Honey, no wonder you are in tears! I'm sure your parents don't really mean that, but I know it HURTS to hear that, none the less!</p>

<p>"Like I once heard that ppl think in pictures? That sounds bizarre to me. I only see pictures in my mind when I dream. It also wasn't until I was 15 that I realized that people actually apparently(correct me if I'm wrong, this is just on what I've heard from people) like have images of characters in their mind from books they read. "
These are the characteristics of a visual-spacial learner, which I am somewhat, but my son definitley IS! It is a way some peoples's brains work, but to not "see" pictures in your mind while reading a passage does NOT mean there is anything WRONG with you! It is the way your are "wired". That's all. </p>

<p>By the way, when he was younger, he was known as the "human calculator" at his grade school, because he "see" the equations in his head and could figure out answers so fast to math questions, BUT he has had to really work at math since getting into algebra and the use of formulas, as opposed to working with real numbers.</p>

30

<p>You are 18 or 19. You are still in the "what to do next" phase, not the "what to make of myself phase". Everything will be fine.</p>

<p>Gut check to make sure you did your best, and then go have some fun taking cool courses. </p>

<p><em>She says, with a degree in Comparative Literature, which was made eventually quite marketable via an MBA....</em></p>

31

<p>If you don't have the basic curiosity and discipline, organic chemistry and bio are only the first of many boring tasks one must endure if you want to become a physician. My son had the similar epiphany. He has absolutely no interest in science though he always does well. he's going to end up in law school and after that, who knows. I know several sons of physicians who did law for a while before they ended up going back to complete the pre-med requirements and going on to successful medical careers. Enjoy the journey!</p>

32

<p>"I feel like I should be able to grasp it, yet don't and it's been a huge blow to my sense of self. I've grown up being told by my parents that my academic strenghs were the only good things about me and that I am a worthless human being otherwise and while I can rationally realize that that's not true and say that they're wrong, emotionally I'm still a wreck and have spent a good part of the last two days at the edge of or in tears."</p>

<p>Shame on them. You sound like a really nice and good kid. Follow your interests and your dreams -- the money will follow. PLEASE don't be a doctor just to please your parents. Are there cultural reasons they think you must / should be a doctor?</p>

33

<p>Again, thank you for all of your help. I definetly at this point won't be a doctor. I've calmed down and realize that everything is going to be okay. I've talked to some sophomores I'm friends with who tell me that being put on academic warning isn't out of the ordinary, they know several people who had it happen to them freshman year. My sister says she had friends in college who ended up on academic warning frequently but who ended up in great jobs anyway. Again, thanks for all of the reassurance that my new plan is solid(despite what my parents think). </p>

<p>"Are there cultural reasons they think you must / should be a doctor?"
It's not that they want me to be a doctor. It's different for each of them.</p>

<p>My mother is paying for my education on her own, without any help from my father. So, it's reasonable that, to her, she's spending a lot of money for me to be here, so she feels uncomfortable knowing that I don't have a long-term game plan exactly to end up with a nice-paying job as a result. She actually doesn't want me to a doctor---she wants me to be a computer programmer(no interest whatsoever) or a lawyer(maybe...). Her pressure is that she wants me to take classes that are "obviousy useful". </p>

<p>My father's problem is that he didn't go to college. Well, he went to community college, but that's not the same. He cannot conceptualize how much more difficult it can be at this level to do something in which you have absolutely no interest. He also "looks down" on the humanities and wants me to stay in the hard sciences. He's fine if I don't become a doctor---as long as I major in engineering, or biochemistry, or neuroscience, etc. For him, it's about the 'prestige'. My father just sees the sciences as more 'respectable.' He kind of ended up steering me into biochemistry(which was, in retrospect, a stupid idea because I don't like biology or chemistry. Never have.)</p>

34

<p>You've gotten great advice from many here. Me, if you were my child, I'd just want to give you a hug and tell you that you will figure it all out. Do you have an advisor you like? I can only tell you my son left for college thinking he knew what he wanted to do and really, really stuggled with his first "major" class and did well at a class he took for fun. His advisor has been good because she had counseled him to take all kinds of classes and not be too focused on the end of the 4 years. He took the advice to heart his second semester and fortunately doesn't need to "declare" until after his sophomore year so he has time to figure it out. You are at a great school for expanding your mind so take advantage of that. You are not alone by any means so take heart in that. Sometimes we parents don't help our children because we get too excited and wrapped up in what we "think" our children are "into" or how we "think" they will turn out. This is the time of your life to tune out the " parent and former teacher noise" and focus on yourself. You are a bright, intelligent person or Brown would have never accepted you and do keep an open dialogue with your advisor. If you aren't clicking with your advisor, talk to any of the profs you've had so far that you liked or feel comfortable talking to. If you for some reason end up on academic probation, take advantage of everything and anything you are offered in support- most colleges want students to succeed and graduate...not to fail...really.</p>

35

<p>Dear Justbreathe,
I, too, at one time had a lot of my self-worth constructed around the grades I received and the label of being smart. It can be a challenging mental box to get out of, especially if your parents have reinforced it so strongly.</p>

<p>I know this is a crisis in your life, but I would offer that is a crisis that you have created for yourself. Further, I believe it’s a crisis you have created for yourself for a very important reason.</p>

<p>Make no mistake, organic chemistry is a very difficult weed-out course for pre-meds. I have heard so many stories of dedicated pre-meds auditing the course over the summer and then taking it for a grade for in the fall that I have great respect for the misery it can cause. Perhaps Brown has their pre-meds take it early for a reason—it frees those students who really don’t have the heart to live, breathe, eat and sleep medicine to get off the pre-med track early on and have an enjoyable academic life. The route to becoming a doctor is so long, so difficult and so competitive, it’s an unwise career path for someone without a true passion for it.</p>

<p>So you have given yourself a great gift. By crashing and burning along the pre-med track now, you have opened yourself up to all sorts of new opportunities over the next few years. (If things had gone swimmingly with organic chem, how long do you think it would have taken you to fully face you just really don’t want to go into medicine? Another year, two years, until your third year of med school?)</p>

<p>But I would posit that you have created this crisis. Don’t tell yourself you’re not smart enough or your brain doesn’t operate in the right way. If you really, truly wanted to become a doctor, nothing would stop you. You would figure out a way to compensate for your visualization issues, you would camp out in your professor and TA’s offices during office hours, you would get tutoring, you would audit courses (if you had to, during the summer you would get a job with flexible hours so you could audit vital courses at community college) etc. But you really don’t want medicine that badly, or really at all. This is great, great news to know. Sometimes it takes a really wrenching crisis to shake us off one path and onto another, especially when something as strong as parental disapproval is involved. </p>

<p>It seems to me you have two choices now. The first is to fail the course which will leave a small blemish on your transcript that anyone a few years from now will just smile at once they see all the As and Bs through out your sophomore to senior years. (If I were you, I would talk to your academic advisor, talk about what you have learned from this experience, and get him/her on your side.) </p>

<p>The other option is to grit your teeth and do what you need to do to pull a C- out of the class. To do this you will have to buckle down and eat and breathe organic chemistry for two weeks or until however long you have before the final. Go to the professor and the TA. Tell them this class has shown you that you don’t want a career in medicine, (for which you will be forever grateful) but that you really don’t want to fail the class and can they help you get to the point where you can at least pass. They may have ideas about how you can get around visualization issues (surely you’re not the first to have trouble with this) and if you are really dedicated and willing to put in the hours, I bet they’ll help you limp through it. </p>

<p>Neither option is better or worse than the other. It all depends on which one appeals to you most. I would advise for future reference that part of developing your intellect is being smart enough to get help when you need it. I am betting Brown has all sorts of academic support that you haven’t begun to take advantage of because you felt they were for the duller knives in the drawer. I’m sorry to say that retaining that belief will severely limit you.</p>

<p>So the good news is you are now free to explore the great intellectual riches of Brown University. But please don’t focus on whether you are smart enough or how you can best make good money. What I would ask is, do you have integrity? Are you kind? Do you have the courage and the desire to go after what you want in the world? Part of becoming an adult is shaking off the values and aspirations of our parents in order to truly understand our own values and aspirations (which, in the end, may have certain resemblances to those of our parents.) You have given yourself a nice, big juicy crisis in order to put yourself on that path. Congratulations! (And yes, you’re going to be fine. Better than fine.)</p>

<p>Love,
Taomom</p>

36

<p>I have long worked in Honors Programs at public universities that have a strong science/engineering reputations.</p>

<p>Each year I gather my freshmen (400 or so) and ask them how many have been told they are good in math and science and therefore should be doctors or engineers. Most raise their hands. Then I ask them to lower their hands if they plan to be a doctor or engineer. Most lower their hands.</p>

<p>THEN I tell them to think very hard over the next year or so if THEY really want to be a doctor or engineer. That their job in college is to find their passion . . . to figure out what makes them happy, what interests them, etc. . . . NOT what makes their parents happy. After all, it's the students, not the parents, who will have to wake up every day and go to work and be a doctor or an engineer (or whatever . . .). IF being a doctor or an engineer is what really makes them happy, terrific!!! But if not . . .</p>

<p>Many of my students end up to be doctors and engineers. But many do not. They go on to all sorts of great and interesting careers and best of all they made the choices that were right for them.</p>

<p>It's not unusual for students entering as pre-meds to change their minds. Sometimes, their grades change their minds for them BUT more often a look deep into their heart changes their mind. (I can't tell you how many of my friends started out as pre-meds and how few actually became doctors. You are NOT alone!)</p>

<p>Next semester, take courses that interest you. See if something sparks. It could be in the sciences. It could be something completely different. Don't think about what job a course might lead to. In my opinion, there's a terrible trend to look at college as some sort of technical training school. I understand the pressures that make that so, but it concerns me.</p>

<p>You are clearly bright and articulate. Get a good, liberal education. You will be successful in whatever you do once you figure out your passion. That, in my opinion, is your "job" at the moment. Good luck!!!</p>

37

<p>you have to pay your dues!</p>

38

<p>Many of us have had that same problem of doing well in High School, only to find out that our college is full of students ready to give us hard competition.</p>

<p>I had to let go of the idea of doing any science or math in college... I was just not able to keep up. However, I found out I loved, LOVED, Anthropology and dabbled in the other behavioral sciences as well. If I was going to do it all again, I wouldn't worry about getting a math tutor, I would just do Anthro again. It's like my whole brain was designed for anthropology. If you feel the same way, go for it. There's a million things you can do with the degree.</p>

39

<p>good luck to you</p>

40

<p>You want to hear about 180 degree turns.</p>

<p>My son, the math geek, who doodled calculus equations in HS.</p>

<p>Gets to college and is now gearing towards politics, history and french. </p>

<p>I didn't see that coming....</p>