lots of OOS students paying less than me to attend in-state University ($280 EFC)

Paying for College
1

Hi,
I live in a rural state called Vermont. 30 mins to the nearest supermarket… Parents refused to fill out FAFSA, when I was 17. However, the “little engine that could” inside of me said, keep on pushing. So I worked full time to afford tuition, and ate one meal a day, in order to attend the cheapest Vermont State College. This school did not have my first choice of major, Accounting or Computer Science. So I double majored in Mathematics and Business Management, anticipating on becoming a CPA. During my last semester the law changed on CPA certification. Previously you could sit for the exam with just a Bachelors, now you need a Bachelors + 40 cr. in accounting. So that door closed. Many interviews later still can’t find a job that pays more than $13 hr. (graduated with a 3.33 GPA)

Decided to apply to grad school in CS at University of Vermont. However, since my state school offered no CS classes and I could not afford UVM by piecemeal… I had to travel 2200 miles to take pre reqs at West Texas A&M. Scored a 311 on the GRE. Still didn’t get into grad school. Decided to bite the bullet, now that I was 24, and applied for a second Undergrad degree at UVM in CS. Got in… FA came in the mail. Net price 25k with an EFC of $280, can’t really afford this price… Called from the bottom of the phone tree at UVM, to the top, “no one could help me”. Do some research… Avg. net price of OOS UVM student 35K… Here’s the kicker, UVM has a regional tuition discount for students studying Data Science, which is essentially CS. The discount takes off 12k. UVM is 70% OOS students… 35k - 12k = 23k… So potentially a lot of OOS students are paying way less than me, to study at the only public in state University that offers a real CS program. Regional colleges are even more expensive than UVM… I’ve been looking for affordable OOS colleges that offer CS, but they are just not out there. I’m smart, but not smart enough to be competitive at schools that are need blind. West Texas A&M, was awesome, but the library wasn’t really open during the weekend, and I love to read non-fiction for fun. The flatness of the Texas panhandle also made me sick. IF anyone has suggestions on colleges to apply for as a transfer undergrad CS major, that would be helpful… I’ve already looked at around a hundred colleges, but maybe I over looked a gem. Looking for a place that won’t charge me the equivalent of a brand new car every year.

If any FA, Admissions officer, or important person with clout, from a state school or university within the northeast, would like to generously extend in-state tuition to me… that would be great.

about me: was in a garage band for 6 years… closed for 2 well known national acts, wrote songs with band for a national movie. Wrote a symphony. ASVAB test scores 132 GT, 97th percentile. Top 2% Comp-XM business simulation. Called 2015 Dow Jones peak, called Dow Jones trough in Feb 2016 3 months before. Youth group 6 years. Student gov’t…

2

Please write in a paragraph…it’s hard to focus to read a wall of text.

GPA in college and High school?
SAT/ACT Test score?(Why did you take GRE? You are an undergrad.)
How much can you and your parents pay? Why did they not file FAFSA?

Stop putting excessive commas btw.

3

So you’ve graduated, applied to grad school, and have started a 2nd Bachelor’s degree program? You can no longer be considered a transfer undergrad in CS. Once you get a degree, you are no longer an undergrad.

Most schools will not fund nor provide financial aid for a second bachelor’s degree. You will be paying full fees. What did your guidance counselor say about this plan?

4

Will a second undergraduate degree help you though? Can you spend your energy instead on getting certain certifications that would yield a better salary? Cybersecurity?

Would you consider online programs?

What happened to accounting–it seems easier to do the 40 hours for CPA than to get a second undergraduate degree. Is this off the table?

5 
       I have completed an undergraduate degree in Mathematics and graduated without debt. I would like to go back for a second undergrad degree in Computer Science or Computer Engineering. I believe this is where the fun/lucrative jobs are. 

      The problem I'm running into is... Universities with CS programs want to charge me 25k-35k to attend. I'm willing to be employed full time and attend college. However, It'll be morale breaking by working hard a second time, while gaining a lot of debt. Do you know of any Universities with CS departments that might potentially charge me somewhere between 14k-18k? (3.33 cumulative undergrad GPA, 311 GRE, 2009 SAT M+CR ~1200) There are private colleges with great deals on aid, but they all seem to be reaches for me. Do you think it'd be weird if I start calling up public New England Universities and ask for tuition reciprocity due to my circumstances?
6

Hello redpoodles,

    The certifications are neat and I have looked into some, however, I want to work on hard problems. I want to build a machine that can visually identify an item, i.e. a tennis ball and add a +1 to a tennis ball column in a database. So we can build a database that knows the total supply of all used/second hand items in a given country.

IBM is coming out with a new product called the hyperledger, which is built with blockchain (i.e. bitcoin). It will allow international businesses to share “Excel sheets” on IBM mainframes. Which will speed up international settlements dramatically. I want to build products that improve the world.

The disadvantage with accounting is… It’ll take me 2 years to complete the credits I need. However, It will also take me 2 years to complete a CS bachelors and cost pretty much the same. Computers are way more fun than A = L + OE. In addition a bunch of accounting jobs are predicted to be automated by programmers soon. The world is about to change significantly.

The world is also a strange place… had I been born 40 miles to the west in New York… I could attend a CUNY or SUNY school for half the price of Vermont’s instate options and not be in this pickle.

7

COA OOS at SUNY is 30k

CUNY Out of City tuition is $13, 199 (then add travel expenses or somewhere to live within NYC)

8

Hal, I don’t think getting a second Bachelor’s degree is the answer.

Do you have friends or family living in a location with a more robust job market than Vermont? If so- see if you can move there and launch your job search from there.

You have a BA in math. That’s a highly marketable degree. Get a job- either an entry level job at IBM, or any other place that has a tech/IT/data component, or any company which pays a living wage and offers tuition benefits.

Start there. You need to launch. You are a college graduate, and worrying about the cost of in-state vs. out of state tuition in VT vs. NY is a major psychological distraction for you. Getting a second Bachelor’s degree is a major distraction- time, money, angst- for you.

You need to get a job. Start there. If it means getting an online certificate at night to work on more technical or more interesting problems than those you have at work- then do that.

But time to stop replaying the tape in your head about how you studied the wrong thing, it costs too much, your parents wouldn’t do FAFSA. You obviously have more than enough grit and talent and brains to do whatever you want to do in life- so start doing. Get out of Vermont if there are no jobs there and move to Charlotte or Raleigh or Houston or Tampa and get going…

You can do this. You are stuck and worrying about a second Bachelor’s degree is keeping you stuck.

9

How long did you attend West Texas A&M? Are you still considered a resident in VT?

Check into this, but I think there is the Aggie Promise for TX residents, where if your income is under a certain amount, tuition is covered at Texas A&M. But of course this might only apply to someone who is working on first bachelor’s degree. And you might have to live in TX and work fulltime for a year or more to become a resident first.

Also there is a scholarship through Cyber Corps in return for government service, but I don’t know if it would apply to your situation of doing CS as a second degree. You would have to find out what your options are with this.

Could you do a master’s program in CS, with a math degree?

Also, could you find a job with your current degree and then get extra training with online courses, maybe the employer would even pay for some of this?

10

@blossom has it right. I don’t think another degree is the answer for you.

11

The college grants you’re comparing are only for students who don’t already have a bachelor’s degree. You don’t qualify for them.

If you want to take comp sci classes, go find a job near a community college that offers them. Or find a job and look for online programs. Some NYS public colleges offer online degrees. Other states may too. You’ll be full pay, so see if VT has a program like that because you may get state rates there so it will be cheaper. But your first order of business is to find work so you can pay for the classes you want.

12

I agree with @blossom, I didn’t see her post when I posted. That is the best advice for you.

13

You are talking about either a second bachelors or a grad degree.

Let’s start with a grad degree.

  1. There are TONS of colleges closer than Texas (from Vermont) where you could have taken your other courses.
  2. Grad school financial aid is largely merit aid...based on the strength of your application, and the schools' desire to have you as a member of the grad school cohort. This aid comes in the form of assistantships, grants, fellowships, scholarships, tuition remission, sometimes work study, and loans.

Now for a second undergrad degree,

  1. Don't do it. There are other ways to skin the cat than to get an additional undergrad degree...anywhere.

How flexible have you been in terms of jobs? Where in VT do you live? Are you willing to take an entry even position with lower pay and growth potential? Will you relocate?

Have you considered a temp agency? Some folks have gotten decent experience working through a temp agency. Others have been offered jobs.

How much CAN you pay for grad school? Anything?

14

It’s not the degree holding you back from finding a better paying job. It’s your location. Leave your address off your resume and apply to jobs in NYC.

15

@sensation723

Why if this person doesn’t want to LIVE in NYC? What if they don’t care for,the cost of living in NYC?

I DO think this person needs to have someone review their resume…and their LinkedIn profile. And this person needs to be flexible in terms of job location.

16

I agree, what you need to do is find a job to use your math degree and get some experience related to comp sci. You will be more attractive as a grad school candidate with some relevant job experience. You may need to go outside of your preferred living area to launch your career, but it may be worthwhile.

17

No more college. No more tuition. Please. Instead, you should consider applying to the Praxis Apprenticeship Program. Please check it out. It is totally legitimate and, based on your post, you will likely meet their “would sleep in their car” test. https://discoverpraxis.com/

My only recommendation is that you start focusing on what you have accomplished and stop focusing on the negative. Employers want positive, proactive people. You have done a lot, so you should be positive.

You might also consider exploring jobs with defense contractors like Northrop Grumman and see if your resume might match some of their openings. These defense contractors are looking for young people because they have a lot of people getting ready to retire.

I know nothing about Vermont (well, except for what I learned as a 5th grader man many years ago and Vermont was my state report project), but I do know that great jobs are available in Florida and Texas. You should be open to relocating. California might be an option. It is my home state and there is a lot of opportunity in the Silicon Valley, so
I should recommend you check it out. What I would say is that if you were to pursue opportunities out there, go with the mindset to make and save as much money as you can, and then move.

But more education, and another degree in computer science is not the answer. You don’t even need a computer science degree in order to work in that industry. Computer Science departments at universities cannot keep up with the real world of computer science anyway. Get an apprenticeship or get a job, and then let your employer pay for any additional education if they think you need it.

Lastly, I appreciate your use of commas, particularly the Oxford comma :slight_smile:

18

@thumper1 I only use NYC base on a previous post from the OP about going to school in NYC. With that said all the resume updating in the world won’t help you if there are few to no jobs in your field in that location. Lots of people move to find jobs in their field. OP may have to be opening to moving to find that 1st job.

19

Thank-you all for replying. Your responses have been helpful.

to blossom: I’ve applied to around 35 ish IBM positions, 4 interviews, one flew me down for an on-site interview… The other candidates, I guess, are just a little bit better. Some of the local Vermont tech companies have interviewed me… but most of the time they voice, I “don’t have the necessary experience”. I’ve made a few projects,read about EE and CS ( I’m that “geek” who found a Basic Electronics 5 vol. set at Goodwill, and am currently 3/5th the way through), and am solving projecteuler.com problems. The cards haven’t fallen my way yet.

to mommdc: I have looked into the Aggie promise, but am not eligible. I could do a CS grad degree, with an undergrad Mathematics degree… but i’m not going to get into an affordable school that’s part of, “The Hiring Pipeline”. So flip of the coin, I might be worse off.

to thumper1: I agree there are tons of colleges closer to Vermont than Texas… however, colleges that are cheaper than Vermont colleges don’t have CS programs. (caveat: City University of New York, will cost me 23k… but at that price, I might as well just go to Syracuse at 27k). If you know of any within the 14k-18k range, I would love to hear about them. Just as a side note… It was cheaper for me to fly down to West Texas A&M, pay tuition, room and board; than, pay for just tuition in Vermont. West Texas was too flat and the library wasn’t really open all the time. So i’d like to go somewhere else. I am flexible to relocate for job/college almost anywhere and have been applying in areas besides Vermont.

to sensation723: Thank-you for the, leaving the address off my resume, suggestion. I have not tried that yet. I am willing to relocate to NYC. I searched for a list of finance companies within NYC and applied from top to bottom. I will try again, but not disclose my location. My resume has been looked over and edited by 6 people so far. Including the VP of the company I currently work for.

to chesterton: Thank-you for directing me to an opportunity. I have not looked at Northrop-Grumman recently and will do so again. I do find Northrop-Grumman’s FLIR targeting system, amazing. I’m not qualified for an EE job, but will look for positions I am qualified for.

Oh, and I’ve also tried to get jobs at colleges that offer Employees free or reduced tuition. Haven’t had any luck. I’ve applied at the University of Vermont… for Janitorial positions up to Assistant Staff positions. Not that it matters, but I’m not ugly either. I’m tall and fairly attractive.

20

What about one of those coding camp type programs? I have a friend whose son graduated with a degree in chemical engineering and couldn’t find a job. He ended up getting some training in coding and seems to be doing well.