<p>For the elite colleges, I believe that a less than stellar GPA would have to be compensated with not just ultra-high SAT scores, but a stellar list of ECs and awards. Please respond with your opinion on the following scenario - (non-URM)</p>
<p>GPA - 3.6
SAT I - 2300+
5+ APs all 5's
National Merit Scholarship finalist (let's say 240 on PSAT)
State Scholastic Chess Champion (from a big state)
State Novice Debate Champion
State Science Fair Competition - 1st Place
Siemen-Westinghouse Semi-Finalist
School Community Service Chair
Student Gov - Senator
Violin - Senior District, Honor Orchestra
Chess Club Captain and Instructor
Breakdance Club
Fluent in two foreign languages
Poetry contest winner
School publication editor
Passion in Biological Science - Advanced Classes/Research in College</p>
<p>The question - what is this candidate's chance of getting into one of the Ivys? If low, what would the candidate have to do other than improving the GPA to significantly improve the chance?</p>
<p>I think it would help to have at least one stellar teacher’s recommendation of the “one of the best students I’ve ever had ilk”, failing that a similar letter from a science mentor. Luckily there are lots of excellent schools who would be happy to accept this student - even if they are part of a certain athletic league.</p>
<p>I think the OP has kind of put the rabbit into the hat a bit. If a kid really had that list of ECs, plus enthusiastic teacher recommendations, plus essays that felt like they were written by a real person, not a robot, both GPA (above a certain level) and SATs (ditto) would be largely irrelevant. I’m trying to figure out what possible area of weakness that student has? History? Using one foreign language on a test when she was supposed to use the other?</p>
<p>If anything, I would tone it down a bit. It feels like too much, and one tends to discount each element because of it.</p>
<p>But rather than obsessing about ECs, grades, and tests, she should work on writing really fine essays, and making certain she knows which teachers (a) view her in a positive light, and (b) write effective recommendations. And also . . . stop thinking in terms of “one of the Ivys (sic)”. The Ivies are too different from one another, and there are too many other high-quality universities for a student like this, for that attitude to be anything but unattractive and undermining of this student’s quality.</p>
<p>Thanks JHS. How high is “GPA (above a certain level)” for HYPSM in your opinion. I guess toning down is a good idea, but the long list is meant to explain to low GPA without being explicit.</p>
<p>You’re forgetting that at HYPSM etc. GPA is the single largest factor taken into consideration when doing admissions. There will be hundreds of other students that not only have the same quality SAT score and extracurricular repertoire, but also maintain a very impressive GPA. </p>
<p>GPA is really one of the only indicators of a student’s future success at college: SAT scores have been shown to have little correlation with anything and extracurriculars certainly will not make up for poor grades in school.</p>
<p>Many colleges I know clearly state that a high GPA can make up for poor SATs, but high SAT scores will not make up for a low GPA. That student’s GPA in college will most likely reflect his or her grades in high school, and a higher GPA will tend to result in better job offerings or an acceptance at a better grad school – really just a early on measure of success – than say the student with so-so GPA, but stellar SAT/ECs. </p>
<p>And, to be dead honest, the ECs mentioned are almost norm for ivy goers and a 3.6, in my mind, might set your child in the bottom half of the first decile, perhaps the top of the second decile? You ask how the candidate could increase his/her chances without changing the GPA, but remind yourself how many times the top tier colleges emphasize the rounded student model.</p>
<p>There is no one GPA cut off score to get into the ivies and other schools of their ilk. There are some schools where A’s are rare and others where the top 40 students all have 4.0s. There are academic magnets where some one who isn’t in the top 10% may be virtually as strong as one that is in the top 10%. You really have to know your school. Virtually no one in our school (big suburban public in a pretty good school district) has been accepted to Harvard with less than a 97 unweighted average and 1500+/1600 on the SATs and top 2% rank. </p>
<p>I left a very important “not” out of a sentence in my previous post. It should have read: Luckily there are lots of excellent schools who would be happy to accept this student - even if they are NOT part of a certain athletic league.</p>
<p>I would want to look at how the 3.6 GPA was calculated. Did you get either As or Ds and nothing in between (not good situation)? Did you have a rocky freshman year but all other years were good (good situation)?</p>
<p>I use the following scatterplot to give students an idea of what kind of applicants the Ivies are rejecting and accepting:</p>
<p>No one with a 3.6 GPA was accepted. Very few with that GPA even bothered to apply. Ivies are rejecting kids with 4.0s and high SATs.</p>
<p>The one thing in your application that could attract attention is your science awards and science research. A letter from your research mentor, a gripping essay about your love of scientific research, great essays otherwise would be one avenue that I think could be useful.</p>