Lurking Mom seeks advice and empathy

<p>I think they count and are evaluated, but I also think the adcoms have read enough essays to know which are truly the students' and which have been edited and tweaked by pros.</p>

<p>They can count. But you don't know what is going to count. If your app is on the edge of acceptance and you write a great joy of running essay and the adcom reviewing your app is a diehard runner, it can certainly tip the balance. If you write about something that can stir negative feelings in the reader, you might lose out. But the catch is that you don't know who is reading your essay. Katherine Cohen's advice to bring yourself and something specific about the college where you are applying in the essay can be helpful as it show demonstrated interest and could answer the question adcoms are asking as they review your file: how can you add to this campus community. I think kids need to think about and worry about their essays because so many of them would do such a schlock job on them if they did not. Most essays are not so great.</p>

<p>Last year my son had more than 1 Admissions officer write TO him in the weeks prior to formal admissions letters being sent out(from small quality LAC's). These all came prior to offers of admission. In each case a comment was made in their note which indicated they were "taken by" content of what he had written- mostly referencing something in his essay, but in one case it was something he had written in the short answer- tell us about your most important EC. </p>

<p>Parents definitely have to pick their battles.
Kids are definitely the ones applying and it is "their life."
Essays do not "make up" for otherwise uncompelling applications.</p>

<p>But, Essays and even short answers certainly can "matter", or no one would bother having them on their application. I am not advocating professional intervention, but I do not think that parents have to abdicate interest or input. As with most elements of parenting teenagers, there have to be reasonable limits- on kids, on parental expectations, on feeling like you can/should give input. If you have decent rapport with your kids going in, there might well be bumps, but they are survivable.</p>

<p>My S was told by one adcomm that they don't look at essays too much because they know kids get lots of help - from teachers, parents, writing coaches, etc. They figure they can get a better sense from the SAT2 Writing. Given how flukey that test can be, that caused me to raise an eyebrow. Also they only recommend taking SAT2s, so I wonder what happens to the kid who doesn't submit those scores.... but that was what was said. I figure, as with an "informational" interview, a good essay can only help, but a so-so one probably is not the kiss of death, except perhaps at places like HYPS, U of Chicago, etc.</p>

<p>Sometimes looking at the application of a person who got into the school your S is interested in attending can open his eyes as to quality (or not) of essay required.</p>

<p>The biggest fault that I see kids making in the essay process is that they don't keep on point--that is, they don't decide beforehand what two things they really want the adcom to know about them and then craft the essays and short answers to highlight those points. It helped my D focus her essays and short answers.</p>

<p>And kids often don't see the obvious! I was asked to look at the essay for a kid applying to MIT-- his essay didn't give you an inkling that he was a kid who was crazy about science.</p>

<p>mwlgal...it sounds like part of the problem is that he did not come to you with the essays/answers but you checked yourself, perhaps not with his knowing. So it's hard to come up with an opening comment that can provide you, at the least, with a forum for saying what you feel you need to say, without his also getting really irritated that you looked at his work without asking. (BTW, I am absolutely not criticizing here--you are just being a concerned mom about a very important task)</p>

<p>I agree with Marite's suggestion to print out some threads about essay writing and say that you know he's in the midst of the process, and would he please just look at these quickly because you think they will help him as he proofreadsa and refines his essays.</p>

<p>I remember that last fall my son had left one draft essay out on the table or something and I saw it and it was AWFUL. I said something fairly non-critical about it like, "It looks like you've got the germ of a good idea here, but it needs to be tightened up" or some similar blather. He quickly explained that it was just an extremely rough first draft and he was nowhere near done with it. (Whew) So maybe your son is just in the early stages? Maybe you could just ask him, "How are you coming on the applications, how far along are you in the process of editing"?</p>

<p>I guess if it were me, I'd say, "I hear that most of the kids have their applications checked by a parent or teacher or counselor before submitting them, since you've never had to fill this kind of paper out before, and you only get one shot at these schools. Someone with experience of what these typically look like will really be able to give you some confidence that you've filled out the application the way the college expects you to." And I guess if he says no, then at least you know that you've tried. </p>

<p>I tend to agree that the most important parts of his application are not the essay, but rather the transcript, and whatever special qualities come through in the way he's spent his last 3-plus years, plus what his teachers and school say about him. Still, a highly selective school will, I am sure, sometimes use a really careless essay, or a really outstanding one, as the differentiation between in and out. At least if you say something, you won't have to feel too guilty that you didn't at least try to share your knowledge of the process. </p>

<p>But yes, sometimes even very very hard life lessons must be learned the hard way by the Stubborn (of which I am Mom to 3 :) )</p>

<p>Once again, CC pulls through! And yes cangel, I feel much better. So many thoughtful suggestions that are greatly appreciated. Here's my plan: print some essay threads and casually suggest a look could be helpful. We've got someone on the outside who can take a peak and is well respected by s. I'll be available and try like heck to let the chips fall where they may. I'm going to drive both of us over the edge if I keep trying to micromanage all aspects of the process. I think I'm better off coordinating stuff - stamps, addresses, dates, what's done, what's not etc. Interesting that several of you don't think the essays are all that important in the long run. (No, he's not looking at HPSY). It seems as if most adcoms that we visited with reinforced how critical the essays were to the process. What a racket. I feel better now. I'm going to start a new thread re short essay since this is buried. Thanks again to all.</p>

<p>The fact that your S is already working on the essays is a good thing. Many students don't get any farther than the vaguest of outlines until mid-December. </p>

<p>Good suggestions about getting some outside input, and helping your S structure his time so he doesn't get any more overloaded than he is already. Not sure about the value of CC essay threads though -- I stopped reading them last year at this time because very few essays were good. Perhaps some of the comment would be noted, though.</p>

<p>Based on what I have heard from admissions staff at selective LACs, essays are not as important as grades, strength of schedule and standardized tests. At many schools class rank, recommendations and EC achievement and leadership are more important. But effective essays can help an applicant stand out from others with similar stats and ECs. Essays with poor organization, bad grammar etc will hurt an application. Well-written essays with an authentic, individualized POV will help an application. Generic, middle-of-the road essays without significant technical flaws neither help nor hurt. </p>

<p>I've found College Admissions Essays for Dummies to be the most engaging of the "how-to" essay books. As for how hard to push, I'd suggest that until he really flips out or hits his deadlines, press him to work consistently on the essays without micro-critiquing the results.</p>

<p>Reid makes a good point about timing. My son had sent in his EA application by this time last year, of course, but his UC essays were done in haste, at the end of November, and I think he started on his January 1 application deadline essays, after winter break started. We became very friendly with the Fedex guys at the end of December! </p>

<p>Not that I recommend this approach, but he's right that your son is doing quite well and has time. Encourage him too, perhaps, to print out the essays, and let them sit for a few days, and just keep reading and editing them whenever he has a moment.</p>

<p>mwlgal, I'm afraid I can offer more empathy than advice, but here goes. My son is a strong writer who hates to start writing. We nearly came to blows over his applications. When they were done they were great but it took a lot of interference on my part. If I had left him alone would he have eventually gotten around to doing what he needed to do? Who knows? I just didn't have it in me to leave it to chance.</p>

<p>I think the question on whether or not the small essays count really depends on the kind of schools being applied to. My gut feeling is that LACs read every line on the application carefully and thoughtfully. Why Swarthmore? for example is notoriously critical to the evaluation process. </p>

<p>My recommendation to my son which he grudgingly followed was to write the first line or two of each short essay. He applied to eight colleges; I'd say he wrote 5-7 essays, ranging from favorite EC to what impressed you about our college? Then, over the course of several months, he gradually filled each in with more thoughts and gradually edited and refined. Once he got rolling, it got easier.</p>

<p>If your son has any friends who attend his targeted schools, he might ask them their opinion. They got in: how much did they exert themselves?</p>

<p>In the end, my son wrote a couple of very good short pieces in the Why here? category. He was actually disappointed because he had to withdraw his applications after he was accepted elsewhere ED.</p>

<p>Just regarding the short answers, I believe the colleges want a <em>SHORT</em> answer (Yale says 2~3 sentences will suffice) so it wouldn't be too worrying if the answers are a bit trite. Personally, mine was about 90 or so words. And from reading "What it really takes to get into Ivy League", unless your essays are stellar they don't contribute much nor do they hurt much.</p>

<p>Best of luck to your son, and I'd let him do the application</p>

<p>I went into the "bear trap" last year with my daughter and this year with my senior
son. They are both decent writers. However, the biggest challenge was to get them to write in their own voice and not sound contrived or too academic. And of course, I'm only a parent so advice from me isn't usually well received. </p>

<p>The BEST thing I did was read the Harry Bauld book "On Writing the cCollege Application Essay" (quick, easy and actually fun to read) and highlighted some parts of it. Gave the book to each kid and said, "Don't worry about reading the whole thing, but just check out a couple of sections. I think this will really help you understand what colleges are looking for in terms of the essays, both short and long." Both of these kids did read parts (and more) and their change in approach to the topics was evident immediately. It clarified the "vague" that another poster referenced--essentially the "instructions" they were looking for.
Not coincidentally, I originally learned of this book on this Board!</p>

<p>Their new-found understanding in how to approach these essays is what made the difference-- their respective voices came through loud and clear. This was particularly helpful in one application which required 5 short (200 word) essays.
This knowledge definitely made the difference here. A couple of the early efforts, before this book's influence, were trite and ordinary. The end result--unique and
interesting, although not perfect!</p>

<p>It's funny but I never liked the Bauld book (read it though). Just picked up (felt like hiding it under my coat) the "50 successful Harvard application essays" book when I was at the Harvard Coop last weekend. What do people think of it? </p>

<p>None of my 3 would ever apply to Harvard BTW, so I didn't pick it up for that reason, but just because some of the essays were simple but effective and seemed to demystify the process a bit. I think one of nicest things for kids to discover is that they can write about simple things like cooking dinner, or running alone, or any number of things and have a spectacular essay.</p>

<p>I'm with Patient here. The situation is at most only about 50% having to do with the actual essay; the rest is about parenting.</p>

<p>We only have one child, so all my experiences happen only once. However, for what they're worth, here they are anyway (at least I think this is how it went; as someone said earlier, there are 3 versions - yours, mine and the truth).</p>

<p>Senior year in high school is a time of major change for the teenager, especially if during that time he/she turns 18 and becomes a legal adult, with ramifications. At the moment, early November, these changes probably aren't apparent and are maybe only beginning to take place. But the college application process fits right in - sometimes neatly, sometimes not so neatly. But it happens at that time, regardless.</p>

<p>For many kids, this is - or can be - the first time that they have a major effect on what is going to be a piece of their life. And in my opinion this is what the theme should be. We parents have to learn to start setting the kid on his/her path - which will progress to the point when, less than a year later, they will physically start on that path by heading off to college; what we sometimes refer to as the beginning of the Great Journey. Even if the child does not move out of the house (and we have to remember that many commute to college), going to college is going to be a major break from the family situation up to then.</p>

<p>So much for philosophy. What it translated into in our family was that S was going to take the major responsibility for the college application process and was goiung to have a major say in the decision. We put the responsibility on him to get the necessary papers, keep track of deadlines, deal with the essays, etc. Of course, we quietly kept track of the deadlines too, as we didn't want a catastrophe to occur. But I would give any reminders by asking questions (Say, what is the deadline for ___, anyway? Next month? How's it going?). As the time moved along it became clear that he knew the process and was running it quite well, so I stopped asking.</p>

<p>As for the essays themselves, I don't know exactly how important they are but they're still required. And let's face it - wrting an essay to define oneself is a tough job even for most of us, let alone a high school student. In the beginning our S was totally unsure what to write about. But he had no choice; he had to write some. So we suggested a couple of general possibiities and let them stew. From time to time he would show me a draft, and I would give some general comments about whether it was well organized, brought out the point, might need a little arrangement, and by the way had a couple of typos. Otherwise I tried as best as I could to keep my hands off it, except on one occasion when both my wife and I felt he was heading into an unwise topic. I actually learned a few things about him from reading the essay.</p>

<p>We did not want to bring in outside help and we did not want to write the essays for him - he could write well in general and getting into the colleges he wanted was going to be his job - or conversely, he was going to be going to a college that accepted him based on the efforts he made. I may have bought a book; that's my usual modus operandi when looking into something. I did not give him any essay threads - most of the essays I have seen on CC have been badly written stabs put up for comment (for that reason I have stopped reading them).</p>

<p>As the time passed towards January 1, his work became more on target, and everything was in on time. In the end, he was accepted everywhere he applied, except at two high reaches, a couple of Ivies that are major reaches for everyone. After discussions of the finances we reached agreement on what we would support, and he's now happy and doing well at a school that seems to fit him.</p>

<p>At least this is how I think it went. As parents we decided that we had to play major hands-off while still providing support both for his own running of the process and in spots where we had information, knowledge or insight that he (being only 17) didn't. I think we did all right, but again, who knows what really happened?</p>

<p>Getting back to the early part of my post, from the beginning to the end of his senior year significant changes occurred in his ways of doing things, and will occur in your S's. Right now, though, there are stilll almost two months to go before the deadline for mailing applications, which is enough time for the process to straighten out and the essays to "ripen" (hopefully not overripen).</p>

<p>My D did not want my input at all in her essays. She was scared to start so just wrote once which was not great on running but she wrote it, then she was able to write another one, wanted no input from me. I was feeling the same way you describe but she went to her AP English teacher whom she respects a lot and he interviewed her about what she was trying to portray and asked her how she could best show it and she revised it, all her own ideas. To make a long story short, it turned out great with absolutely no input from me. She actually had to get the bad one out of the way to get rid of her fear about the essay and she wanted it to be her own thing. I am very proud of her for it and it turned out much better then if I had been the one to proofread it. I think a trusted teacher or the guidance counselor should be the one to help if it is turning into a struggle. Good luck. With her short essays she did not use him, just reread it a few times a few days later and made corrections.</p>

<p>Patient - I'm with you on the Bauld book. It strikes me as one that parents would like more than students. Great advice in it, but tone, examples etc. are not all that engaging for a 17-year old. I leafed through the Harvard book last winter and didn't find it all that useful - well-written essays but many either too contrived or too pat sounding.</p>

<p>I used lots of different books as references for essays. My kids didn't have time to read them thoroughly so I would bookmark the good essays for them to read. The best essays I found were in Katherine Cohen's first book. I remember one entitled "Abba" that we laughed about for days. Still my kids had a hard time getting started with each essay. We brainstormed for many months before the actual writing. Then there were long, unproductive sits at the computer. Finally, both produced excellent essays in one sitting that were really unrelated to any of our discussions!</p>

<p>Great thread, one that goes to the core of the parent (mentor) vs. child (future adult) relationship.</p>

<p>Throughout the application process (D is a senior, 3 apps down, 3 to go), whenever I've been told by others or even by the 'little man on my shoulder' that I'm micromanaging the situation, I come back to one focal point--WHO is going to be paying for this education? The answer is always the same & that more than anything else keeps me on track.</p>

<p>Before all this started, wife and I discussed the options and decided that other than maybe one reach Ivy-type school that parents of admittees are thrilled to pay full ticket for, D would apply chiefly to the next tier of universities, still great institutions where admittance is probable & scholarships are possible for students of D's calibre. This, we figured, would be great for value comparison & brings the money aspect up to be considered as a main factor in selection.</p>

<p>I agree with Jamimom in that while the essay is important, from an adcom's perspective it might be more of a 'rite of passage' and not nearly as important as GPA, scores & EC's. Be that as it may, I've had to bite my tongue quite often when D has shown me drafts of various essays, especially because I graduated with a journalism degree, which is an immediate red flag with D--"...you're trying to write it FOR me!" My take is--fix the grammar, syntax, punctuation (and delete the word 'awesome'--I had to draw the line SOMEwhere) but leave the rest generally intact. It's the whole package that the adcoms will critique.</p>

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<p>I have to smile at this. My S, realizing that his passion oozes from every other part of his application, decided to write on his fiction writing and the reactions his readers have had to it. Of course, the first word of his essay is "Awesome!" though he is quoting a youthful fan. :)</p>

<p>Although it is too late for those with seniors, perhaps this will be of interest to junior parents. My son's high school mailed him a packet in June with instructions to have it filled in by early August. MANDATORY. It was entitled "College Recommendation Information." It asked for a very expanded resume and for an autobiographical essay of 500 words. Its purpose was to help the student start the essays for college (it also helped the counselors with rec writing). It also had several short answer question s(significant contribution, major life events) and it forced the student to evaluate his own strengths, weaknesses, etc. My S used quite a bit of his copy of the packet for admissions essay writing. He pulled a great deal straight from the essay questions. I found it very helpful, although he absolutely loathed doing it at the time.It has helped quite a bit this fall with applications.Do other high schools require this type of work in the summer? I will testify that it is a huge help, especially for those like my S who would prefer a root canal to writing an essay.</p>