<p>I've heard a few of my friends discuss how they are planning on lying about their EC's for colleges, because there is no way for colleges to verify everyone's claims. Is there a check against this sort of thing? What exactly is the process of reporting EC's? I've checked out a few apps and it seems that you just self-report them. This really doesn't seem fair that people would be able to lie about their activities when some of us have actually worked hard. What's up?</p>
<p>your friends are right about the fact that most colleges won't have time to check their ec's...but any ec that they can lie about and get away w/ probably won't affect the admissions decision anyway...</p>
<p>There was a senior at my school last year who got into a really good school (I forget which, probably comparable to Tufts)... she completely lied about volleyball. She only played freshman year, but on her application she wrote that she played for four years AND was on varsity. She got into college, but everyone who knows that she did that has absolutely no respect for her. I guess it's whatever you can live with.</p>
<p>The 1st sign of someone who's not prepared to be a good cheat is to discuss it publicly. It's one thing, for example, to put on your essay you played volleyball 4 years and was on the varsity; maybe it gets caught, maybe not. It's another to TELL everyone about it; she upsets one person, they send an email or letter to her college, she is in hot water. Just probation would be a blessing; more likely expelled. And even AFTER you have a diploma schools can revoke it if they find out you committed fraud in applying; it HAS happened, and then what are you going to do when future employers verify your college degree and the school says "nope, doesn't have one from here"? It's just asking for trouble.</p>
<p>And even if you keep your lie to yourself, you can easily get caught. For example an interviewer is talking to a real volleyball player from her HS and says "you must know Cindy who lettered on the team; I interviewed her just before you". Oops!! And at some schools such as the UCs they randomly select about 10% of the applicants and require them to prove one of their ECs.</p>
<p>My advice is not to do it; the risk exceeds the return.</p>
<p>What about people who claim stuff like ridiculous amounts of community service, like over a hundred hours? Something like that can earn you a lot of weight in college admissions, but it cannot be (without great difficulty) verified. Do people really get away with lying about something like that? Are any other colleges besides the UCs known for checking on these things? </p>
<p>I can't believe that volleyball girl would claim something that can easily be verified by the school.</p>
<p>I too am wondering about the community service thing. I'm in college know and will be transferring...I won't do it, but honestly, I asked the counselor and they said at this point it's completely up to the student to keep up with their hours. WHAT? There have got to be some liars out there transferring when there's literally no way to verify it.</p>
<p>"What about people who claim stuff like ridiculous amounts of community service, like over a hundred hours? Something like that can earn you a lot of weight in college admissions..."</p>
<p>Actually, hours isn't what impresses colleges that care about community service. Results, impact, awards as well as essays and recommendations backing up those things are what impress colleges.</p>
<p>Lots of people can spend hundreds of hours sitting on their butts accomplishing nothing and learning nothing. After they leave, they are never missed.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, over a 100 hours of community service isn't that much. One can do that in a couple of weeks of volunteering fulltime over the summer. It's not a big deal unless a student actually has accomplished something. An example that I recently saw on CC was a student who created a 2-week music camp for children as part of her Girl Scout Gold Award.</p>
<p>Just to operate the camp would have taken more than 100 hours of her time. Organizing the camp would have taken hundreds of hours more. However, what is impressive is the results -- the camp -- not the hours that she put into creating and operating it.</p>
<p>Maybe hours don't necessarily impress the top collegies such as Ivies, but for other schools that aren't as competitive, 100+ hours is quite an accomplishment and would be impressive.</p>
<p>Most schools in the country select students mainly based on stats. The exception are places like HPYS, which have such an overabundance of high stat applicants that the colleges are able to admit students based on creating a well rounded class, including students with different passions in ECs.</p>
<p>Most colleges in the country also accept most of their applicants. Consequently, lying about one's hours for ECs is not likely to do much for one's admission chances. The type of lies that would get students admitted -- lies saying that one has raised thousands of dollars for charity or one organized some major service project -- are likely to be found out by admissions officers because if a student did something like that, their recommendations likely would mention those accomplishments.</p>
<p>Lots of people can claim all sorts of leadership that they never even participated in, yet they can be easily coached to say that they made a difference and "shifted the paradigm" and brought "bold new initatives" and other bullsheete. Some might actually do so..and rightful kudos to them. For the majority of these self styled leaders, however, after they leave, they are justly ridiculed to no end. And for very, very good measure. Point being not to be such a snob regarding those who choose to do and are committed and those who claim to be but are not.</p>
<p>Wanna buy a bridge, NSM? I can sell that bullsheete all day to people like you and you just eat it right up. Because it's all you want to hear...</p>
<p>Heh.</p>
<p>What in the name of our holy lord are you talking about? That was quite difficult to follow eng_dude. I kinda got what you are saying - that people shouldn't complain that people who lie a/b their apps are getting in b/c at least they got in. </p>
<p>Let's agree to disagree then.</p>
<p>I'm not advocating lying about hours in the least. I'm disagreeing with NSM's assertion that it doesn't matter how many hours one commits, but rather it's what they can claim to have accomplished. And that if you are a "leader" who does nothing but takes credit for "results, impacts, and awards" that may or may not matter in the least is far better than the "worker bee" who is dedicated but doesn't wildly stretch the truth about their accomplishments.</p>
<p>And if you can lie about hours, you can also lie about the impact of your hours like NSM proposed. I personally do not like the idea because many kids spend their time working hard and it is all undermined by people who lie, but it wouldn't be hard to do. And teachers would not necessarily know about a student's involvement in school. I personally do a lot outside of school that neither my teachers or GC who will write my recs know of. So they would not necessarily be mentioned.</p>
<p>Makes me wonder how common people actually DO lie on apps.</p>
<p>oh i'm sorry then i misunderstood your post...then let's agree to agree :)</p>
<p>I read an article somewhere that discussed the verification process at some of the bigger schools. According to that, they test the applicant pool randomly by inquiring to the school or phone numbers/names given on the application, making sure that the student's record is true. Sadly, I remember being the number of times they did this disgustingly low.. maybe 1/5,000 students over a span of a couple of years.</p>
<p>No problem, brand. Either way its a judgement call. Surely there are just as many people piling on (or lying about) the hours who do indeed sit on their collective arse and do little as there are those slick slackers who do nothing but take credit for the doings of others in the name of "leadership". Its not an either or thing, but just to flat out dismiss those who are truly dedicated and born without the "salesperson, look what I did!, me!, me!, me! " mentality just irritates me...</p>
<p>Ok so say someone lies and actually gets caught during application process. What is the punishment? Just a little slap on the wrist and no acceptance, or will they somehow notify your other colleges you applied to and inform them as well?</p>
<p>Does anyone know if it is common for people to flat-out lie on apps? I never thought it happened, but now I'm guessing it happens more than people think</p>
<p>"Lots of people can claim all sorts of leadership that they never even participated in, yet they can be easily coached to say that they made a difference and "shifted the paradigm" and brought "bold new initatives" and other bull...."</p>
<p>College admissions officers as well as interviewers are smart enough and sophisticated enough to see through that kind of garbage. People who really have done true leadership are able to talk or write in detail about challenges that they overcame, actions they took to get others involved, how they decided to do initiatives, and the thought processes they went through to create them. Even if they try to lie, they wouldn't have the background to know how to lie to be believable.</p>
<p>People who are lying say a lot of meaningless, vague b.s. They also would not be able to write essays that are credible and their recommendations would not have the specific details that support their so-called leadership.</p>
<p>I am an alum interviewer for Harvard and have caught students in these kind of lies. The students who are lying, embellishing, exaggerating, etc. can't answer questions about why they decided to do projects; what challenges they met; how they inspired people to get involved. </p>
<p>Anyone who has done community service and/or has taken on a real leadership role (and I've done thousands of hours of CS, and have been a leader by title and actinos) knows that every project involves difficult challenges; motivating others to get involved is always one of those challenges; and one takes on the hard work of addressing those challenges and being involved in the project because of some reason that's dear to one's heart. To get fully involved in a project to address the kind of tough issues that comes up, one will be motivated by something far more substantial than wanting to fill up one's resume. One also does things like this because one truly likes help others. </p>
<p>What's also interesting is that the people who are doing the best in terms of having community service projects with impact also tend to be people who are NOT going out of their way to keep a running tally of their hours. If asked about their CS, probably they would not mention hours, but would talk instead about how much fun it was to do the projects or how the project contributed to some kind of difference in a community, organization or individual. This is not something that can be faked. Perhaps the words can be faked, but the music -- the emotion and enthusiasm -- can't be faked.</p>
<p>There are people who think that all CS is b.s., and who assume that no one would volunteer unless they were forced to or were getting something out of it like resume filler. Such people can't fake doing volunteer work for the pure love of helping other people. It's beyond their comprehension, which also is why their work ends up being unimpressive. They pay attention to hours, but don't pay attention to impact on others because they don't care about that.</p>
<p>The colleges that do care about ECs, however, care about impact as well as motivation because they know that students who thought volunteer work was amassing hours to impress colleges are not likely to enhance the college as students because those students would not be involved in campus or local community projects.</p>
<p>"And even AFTER you have a diploma schools can revoke it if they find out you committed fraud in applying.</p>
<p>That is impossible, they can not revoke your diploma for something they failed to verify.</p>
<p>u2kplaya92, you are simply wrong about this. Colleges CAN revoke diplomas and trying to put the onus on them by saying "they failed to verify" something the applicant lied about does not allow someone to weasel out of it. If you lie on your app and they find out, they can take disciplinary action up to and including revokation of your diploma.</p>
<p>For those who may be doubting this here's a quote from the Chronicle of Higher Education
[quote]
Gary Pavela, director of judicial programs and student ethical development at the University of Maryland at College Park, said that any private institution had the right to revoke a degree, particularly if the college made it clear that a violation of rules discovered after graduation could result in disciplinary action. see <a href="http://chronicle.com/colloquy/99/revoke/background.htm%5B/url%5D%5B/quote%5D">http://chronicle.com/colloquy/99/revoke/background.htm
[/quote]
</a></p>