<p>
[quote]
Sorry, i'm not a notebook nerd, I don't know what Wintel is and I don't know what Lenovos are.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm less of a nerd than an informed consumer. ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
With a Thinkpad you are paying for its ruggedness and reliability. With a MacBook you are payiing for style and OS X.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>BS. The MBP (MacBook Pro) has the same hard drive stopping motion sensor, rugged construction, and tough LCD of the best Lenovos. What it lacks are the fingerprint scanner, the great Thinkpad button, and the much loved Lenovo keyboard.</p>
<p>However, for durability, I'd put the Macs up against the Lenovos anyday.</p>
<p>And I wouldn't have, just 2 months ago. Look, this is my first Mac, and I can definitely see the absolute devotion to the brand. Though I doubt I'll ever buy a Mac desktop, I don't feel "ripped off" with my notebook purchase. I feel satisfied in a way that no Dell or Toshiba has ever satisfied me. </p>
<p>But again, I don't think this is an argument of "low-end Wintel" vs. "Mac." This is "BMW vs. MBZ." That's what it is, with the high-end computers. Comparing a $750 laptop to a $2300 Lenovo or Mac is just silly. </p>
<p>
[quote]
There are many benchmarks that show this
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, the benchmarks where people have reclocked the x1600 in Windows show that the card performs pretty much on par with the Acers using it. It's more of an issue with the card being throttled than anything. But I'd take throttling over melting anyday.</p>
<p>I'll be getting an IBM (Lenovo) Thinkpad T60. $150 off through the school, and right now there's a $200 mail in rebate. The thing is so fancy it even has shocks around the HD. At 4.0lbs with the core duo, gig ram, 80gig hd, xp pro, and the fact that it's an IBM for $1198 (after rebates), I can't complain.</p>
<p>I'm definitely a fan of the Lenovos. I think that they're by far the best built Wintel books on the market.</p>
<p>"BS. The MBP (MacBook Pro) has the same hard drive stopping motion sensor, rugged construction, and tough LCD of the best Lenovos. What it lacks are the fingerprint scanner, the great Thinkpad button, and the much loved Lenovo keyboard."</p>
<p>The Thinkpad button is essentially useless for me. You forgot to mention how compatiable the hardware is (other than the ATI graphics card). I've been able to install everything from Vista to Solaris on it successfully and functionally.</p>
<p>I hate that with macs you have to delete your letters one by one instead of a continous motion with PCs.</p>
<p>Huh? What're you on about?</p>
<p>"I hate that with macs you have to delete your letters one by one instead of a continous motion with PCs."</p>
<p>I don't use Mac OS X but I'm pretty sure theres a setting to enable auto-repeating.</p>
<p>Hold on, lemme see...</p>
<p>Okay, so I just typed a bunch of gibberish then deleted it all by holding down the delete key.</p>
<p>Yup, rolen is crazy.</p>
<p>oh when I used word on my friends mac it wouldnt let me delete that way, I had to tap the backspace button may times, weird.</p>
<p>Okay, let me explain something to the non-Mac OS users:</p>
<p>Mac OS is just as configurable as Windows. Once you move past the initial learning curve, you discover as rich an environment as any of the Windows OSes. </p>
<p>That, and Automater? Brilliant. Nothing on XP really compares. Now, there are advantages to Win XP (games and I still prefer Nero for burning) but Mac OS is an amazing environment.</p>
<p>Actually Lenovo/IBM uses a much harder plastic compared to Apple. The X series has titanium hinges (hinges are the part most likely to break on laptop). I doubt a Mac can be driven over by a car, put near fire, dropped from a second story window and still survive. Also the GPU is underclocked for a reason. Most laptop GPU are underclocked. The MBP has problems with overheating. Go check out a 17in MBP with a 7200RPM hard drive and the GPU unlocked since thats the one I played around with. If it is just a problem with the GPU being scaled back why dont we just let the thing toast? Your argument that the MacBook can perform that well is totally pointless since like you admitted yourself that the laptop will "melt". Not to mention I was talking about a Mac MBP vs a Wintel with the same GPU (notice I said OS X drivers). </p>
<p>p.s. Comparing a $750 Wintel with a $2300 is pretty smart. The dude who posted before me was trying to say that the internal components of a Mac is superior. I showed him a $1000 Dell uses some of the same parts. Oh yeah last thing there is no such thing as a tough LCD. MBP's LCD is alot better than the ones on the Lenovos. Which goes back to my point that these two arent even in the same class. Lenovo = business, extremely sturdy and reliable while MBP = creativity, style, media. However well MBP is built (which is quite well), the Thinkpads are definitely sturdier.</p>
<p>lixuelai,</p>
<p>
[quote]
Not to mention I was talking about a Mac MBP vs a Wintel with the same GPU (notice I said OS X drivers).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Don't forget that the Mac can also run Windows, so the performance in Windows matters. Many people have successfully reclocked the GPU stably and safely to levels where it performs at similar levels to the Acer, and this is in a BETA environment (e.g. Boot Camp.) That means that the damn thing can perform pretty well. </p>
<p>Besides, it's inaccurate to compare Windows to Mac OS, as the environments are different. Windows to Windows benchmarks have shown that the MBP performs as well in everything but games, until the x1600 is reclocked.</p>
<p>Then it performs pretty much the same as the Acer with similar build.</p>
<p>But you keep overlooking the important factors:</p>
<p>Mac OS
North and southbridges
Overall system reliability
Marginal value on the "extras"</p>
<p>For example, while the MBP doesn't include a fingerprint scanner, it has a better system for keyboard backlighting. It also has the built in iSight camera, as well as digital audio in/out ports.</p>
<p>These things add fairly significant value on the margin, and shouldn't be discounted.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Oh yeah last thing there is no such thing as a tough LCD.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Then why do many reviewers include a stress test on the LCD? Not all LCDs are made equally as well. My old Toshiba, if you so much as put any pressure on the back, would distort. The MBP? Not at all.</p>
<p>"My old Toshiba, if you so much as put any pressure on the back, would distort. The MBP? Not at all."</p>
<p>The T series Thinkpads use a magnesium reinforced lid that also prevents distortion when pessure is applied to the LCD.</p>
<p>And as a result, I HIGHLY recommend Lenovos. I think they're quite possibly the pinaccle of Wintel books. I might even be willing to go so far as to suggest that for physical build quality, they may even have a slight leg up on the Mac in many areas.</p>
<p>However, you can't just look only at the CPU speed, vid card, and HD, and say, "Same thing!" They're not. You have to look at all the value on the margin, including OS, installed software, and extras.</p>
<p>Asus makes laptops of around the same quality as the MBP with some of the same internal components for quite a bit less (still expensive). Not to mention you can run OS X on it if you want (or any other PC for that matter). In fact, Asus laptops are generally much better cooled (at the cost of less style and flair). Now with your argument that you can reclock. How about I overclock? Im sure an Asus will overclock better due to better cooling. We are looking at the factory specs, not what it can be. As for extras many Asus laptops come with built in vid cam also. Its not called "ISight", but the funny thing is the camera they use in it is pretty much the same. MBP are contract built by Taiwanese OEMs, most of the parts they use are the same. </p>
<p>p.s. Before you say that Asus sucks lets just say they make the MBPs. Apple just designs the exterior and then work with the engineers at Asus to figure out how to cram things in. Apple then buys the laptops, rebrands them, and sell it at a premium. Oh and also they dont do a stress test on the LCD, they test the strength of the cover. The LCD warps because the cover is not strong enough to support the weight and thus is pressed against the LCD. If you do a stress test on an actual LCD they all crack pretty fast.</p>
<p>The 13" macbooks are so cheap that I cant really come up with many cons.. sure the gpu sucks but why complain when your getting a high quality laptop for under $1500</p>
<p>lixuelai,</p>
<p>
[quote]
efore you say that Asus sucks lets just say they make the MBPs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>First off, I suggest Asus as a decent brand, so cram your putting words in my mouth. Secondly, so what? </p>
<p>
[quote]
Oh and also they dont do a stress test on the LCD, they test the strength of the cover. The LCD warps because the cover is not strong enough to support the weight and thus is pressed against the LCD. If you do a stress test on an actual LCD they all crack pretty fast.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, I know. I wasn't careful enough with my diction. My mistake.</p>
<p>But you know what? You win. Besides, it's not like people ever pay premiums for trusted brands (HYPSMC COUGH COUGH).</p>
<p>
[quote]
The 13" macbooks are so cheap that I cant really come up with many cons.. sure the gpu sucks but why complain when your getting a high quality laptop for under $1500
[/quote]
</p>
<p>They're Apples. That's enough for half the people on this site.</p>
<p>Ill be getting a 13'' MB just because its an Apple, and every one that I know who has a apple laptop has been happy.</p>