<p>In anticipation of the annual question, here is the recent history of admission from the Mac waitlist:</p>
<p>........Offered...Accepted.....Admitted....% Admitted
..........WL............WL...........................from WL
2012...469...........233.............116..............50%
2011...508...........196.............196.............100%
2010...582...........243..............0.................0%
2009...534...........242..............0.................0%
2008...433...........182.............11................6%</p>
<p>In other words, you never can tell.</p>
<p>It’s getting harder and harder for schools to figure out how many accepted students will matriculate, since so many students are boosting the number of schools they apply to. That’s especially true for a school that’s “hot” like Mac. The old formulas for number of acceptances and yield simply don’t work like they used to. So, there is hope for those of you who are waitlisted,but make sure you have a solid back up. It’s a gamble that may pay off, but it’s still a gamble. And try not to take this situation personally. Once you matriculate at a college, no one will know or care whether you were waitlisted or not.</p>
<p>I don’t know percentage-wise how big a difference this would make, but I would think things would be better all around if the “system” handled the Ivy, Chicago, etc EAs and the “likely letters” folks a little differently. All over these threads you run into kids already accepted or “likelied” at Ivies, MIT, Chicago, et al still active and alive in these other applicant pools, which seems to be one reason applicants have to protect themselves by applying to some many schools (and usually some kind of overlap with the same 25-30 schools). Now if the MIT or Yale EA admits are going to choose a Macalester in the end then of course that is fine, but how many cases are like that?</p>
<p>Finalchild, I agree. It’s a big game. Unfortunately, many impressionable young people get hurt. They fall in love with a school - Mac or another, but then don’t get the big envelope they so desire. And it’s hard not to take it personally - when you really want it and poured yourself into your application. Then they see others on these sites seemingly collecting acceptances that they can’t possibly use. But that also provides openings for students who are waitlisted - there may still be seats available when the music stops. The challenge is to try not to let emotions make your decisions. </p>
<p>I think we all can agree that we could design a better process.</p>
<p>Yes, they may eventually provide openings but not the same kind of opportunity others would have if these kinds of admits weren’t in the pool to begin with.</p>
<p>I surprised some group of college presidents or directors of admissions haven’t taken on the challenge of tweaking the system. Each year we think the rise in applicants and selectivity can’t get any worse, and then it does. Wasn’t the baby boomer bubble supposed to burst by now?</p>
<p>Some kids might have legitimate reasons for applying to schools other than their “dream” school they have an EA admission to. Cost is a really big one. A kid with an EA admission to a top school may be full pay at the top school, but get really good merit aid someplace like Mac. Very, very few families actually have $55K per year in additional income/savings for college. For some families that makes a big difference in the decision. Sometimes a student may change their mind about going so far from home, especially if there are some kind of family issues (for us Mac is a local choice). Regarding the “likely” letters, the apps to other schools are already in by the time those arrive, so it isn’t like they applied knowing they had admission to the other school.</p>
<p>Understood about the likelies, but they could in theory come out of the pool or the schools could offer “definites” instead of likelies to facilitate kids coming out of other pools. And, sure, if a kid might seriously go to the other schools by all means they should stay in, but I have a feeling this is not the case and that some just like to rack up acceptances. I’ve seen kids get in ED and stay in just out of curiosity about what would happen with their apps. </p>
<p>It’s overcrowded. The same kids all applying to the same schools, and this year’s sleeper you managed to find will be next year’s “hot” school and then there’s another app for everybody to toss into the ring. It’s a vicious circle.</p>
<p>I don’t think Mac sends Likely letters, but I could be wrong. They do send early writes, which in Mac’s case, at least, are actual acceptances. I don’t begrudge students from trying to get the best financial deal they can, but there is an awful lot of application inflation going on. Colleges feel their own pressures to compete. Apparently Grinnell flew in their early write candidates for a special MVP session this year to increase yield. It’s a brutal game all around.</p>
<p>thatsall, no, I meant if I have a likely from Harvard or an EA admit from a school like that, I’m most likely going to Harvard (or Yale, MIT, Stanford, etc). And btw, those are the schools that reportedly give the best FA. There’s little reason for me to then still have my hat in the ring at Michigan, Macalester, Grinnell, Rochester, or wherever. And there’s not just the pure accept/waitlist/reject issue. If I am an applicant at these other schools where these superstar kids almost certainly going somewhere else are still in the pool then that impacts whether I get an early write or maybe some or more merit aid. There is a real domino effect and impact on multiple levels.</p>
<p>The waitlist at Mac is just silly unless you are waitlisted or denied at all other schools. Since Mac will not be admitting anyone from the waitlist until May 15th or after (and you have to commit to any other offer by May1), it would be just plain silly to remain on the waitlist. This seems short sited on Mac’s part as those on the waitlist are no doubt very desirable candidates and will naturally choose other offers (frequently offers that came with scholarships and a genuine desire to have the student attend their school). </p>
<p>Just a bit of info, every student I know that applied and got accepted to Mac only intends to go there IF they did not get accepted to the many other (perhaps more prestigious) schools they applied to–they even call Mac their “safety” (silly I know). To me it seems that Mac did not do a good job sussing out and admitting students who will actually choose to attend. Perhaps this seems true only in my circle, but I guess we will see their numbers next year.</p>
<p>^^^^Don’t follow any of that. At least in 2011 and 2012 based on numbers above accepting a spot on the waitlist did matter…a lot.</p>
<p>Are you also saying they shouldn’t have any waitlisted kids because they should have taken them because otherwise they will go elsewhere? Don’t follow at all. They can’t accept more than do based on a calculation of available seats and yield projection.</p>
<p>A “safety”? Maybe in your universe, but not in mine.</p>
<p>Okthis, I don’t think you understand how waitlisting works. Lots of schools maintain waitlists - students can opt on or off of them. If they opt to stay on, they should give a nonrefundable deposit to another school. If they get a call (which can happen after well after May 15th) that they have been accepted off the waitlist, they usually have a day or two to decide if they’ll take it. Yes, they lose the deposit at the other school if they switch schools - and then the other school may go to its waitlist. And so it goes. Mac is actually pretty high up in this waitlist chain - so why shouldn’t they have a waitlist?</p>
<p>Mac may be some student’s safety, but it is other student’s dream school. No need to denigrate someone else’s ideal school - is there? By the way, my daughter, at Mac, is much happier there than some of her friends who chose the most prestigious schools they got into. A good choice for an individual student is not always the choice others would make.</p>
<p>If you accept a spot on the waitlist, you would have to turn down every other offer to every other school because May 1st is the National Candidate Reply Date and Mac will not pull from the waitlist until May 15th. Risky, unless you did not get accepted anywhere else.</p>
<p>Yes, in the last two years they pulled a lot from the waitlist (2 years ago 100%), but that was not my point–but those numbers support my point. Mac did not seem to do a good job at admitting students who will actually attend. In addition, because a waitlist candidate would have to reject all other offers (some very appealing offers at that) it seems short sighted. </p>
<p>Of course they cannot admit more students then they have space for…BUT they probably CAN do a better job at admitting students who will actually attend. </p>
<p>And yes, referring to Mac as a safety IS totally nuts, and again, that was my point…that the kids that I know that applied and were accepted feel this way–and Mac should be able to do better.</p>
<p>ok fair enough thatsall, I guess you could just forfeit your deposit. Also, I wasn’t “denigrating someone else’s ideal school”, I was simply saying that it seemed to me that Mac didn’t do a great job at admitting students who will actually attend AND that waiting so long to pull from the waitlist is asking a lot of students.</p>
<p>okthis1, you don’t appear to understand how a waitlist works. The accepted practice is that an applicant who accepts a spot on a waitlist at school X can accept any other offer admission offer from school Y (deadline typically by May 1) and, if subsequently offered a waitlist spot (in May or June), is free to attend school X and decline school Y. This even allows an applicant to accept spots on multiple waitlists.</p>
<p>Thus, because history shows that Mac does in fact sometimes make heavy use of their waitlist, an applicant who really wants to go to Mac and is offered a waitlist spot would be wise to accept the spot and also accept admission at an alternative school. If s/he is subsequently (in May or June) offered a Mac admission, s/he can acceptably say yes to Mac and decline the alternative school.</p>
<p>(BTW, for general information, it is possible to ask schools to extend their acceptance notification deadlines if more information is needed before making a commitment decision. They are usually willing to wait a little while longer if you ask. Don’t, however, accept two schools with the intention of declining one later.)</p>
<p>It does appear that Mac, unlike some schools who practice “admissions management”, is not spending a lot of effort trying to drive up their yields by identifying “most likely to matriculate” candidates and instead is simply admitting “most qualified” candidates. I see this as to their credit: they are willing to expose themselves to the risk of shorting their class in order to be straightforward in their decision process.</p>
<p>At least Mac has a history of pulling from its waitlist. Several school maintain huge waitlists and take few students from them. I think it’s really hard for schools to figure out which students genuinely will accept admittance, and which are just looking for insurance in case another school or schools don’t come through. That’s especially true at a small school, like Mac, that has recently seen a jump in applications.</p>
<p>
I believe standard practice is to refund admission deposits in the case of waitlist acceptance but I am not completely sure about this.</p>
<p>Waitlists serve two functions. The practical function is to create a pool of interested applicants to fill a class should admission acceptances fall short of projections. The marketing function is to help manage the disappointment of qualified applicants who suffered from the limitations of spots. The latter function explains some of the huge waitlists some schools create.</p>
<p>okthis1, with the help of others I think I finally figured out what you were saying, and the reason I had trouble is because your points have no relation to what happens in the real world and absolutely no correlation that is in any way specific to Macalester. Of cours it would be dumb to let go of all acceptances and just “take a flyer” on a hope of getting in ANY college of their waitlist. That is why everyone accepts a school’s offer, places a deposit, and then accepts the waitlist school’s offer down the road if that comes. And this is how EVERY school uses their waitlist. The only comment that has any possible relevance is one most of us here will disagree with…that Mac would a “safety” for a lot of folks. But again, nothing unique about Mac there either. You could make that same statement about any number of schools, including any school in the country save about 10 of them. Sort of like…I applied to Williams just in case I didn’t get into Harvard. Well guess what, sometimes it’s the reverse, where a Harvard admit doesn’t get in Williams.</p>
<p>As I said, “ok fair enough, I guess you could just forfeit your deposit” I wasn’t thinking that way. Anyway, Mac’s yield rate is really low, so my point was, and still is, I don’t think they do a great job of accepting students who will attend AND they risk losing other students to other schools because of they way they admit.</p>
<p>And for the final time…it is silly to think of Mac as a safety, but the admitted students I know feel that way–AND they have little intention on going–which is why Mac pulls so many off their waitlist.</p>
<p>Gosh, sorry to get both you and “thatsall” in such a twist~</p>