<p>How difficult is it to retain a 3.7+ GPA at Penn, including both Wharton and CAS (science) classes along with the requisites? I've heard the average GPA is around a 3.3-3.5. </p>
<p>I've heard people say that getting into Wharton is the hard part, and doing well there is easier, but is that really the case? How much work does it truly take to keep a high GPA, and is it easy to have a social life and participate in extracurriculars as well while doing it?</p>
<p>It would be awesome if anyone could answer regarding either of the two schools. Thanks!</p>
<p>I’ve heard that the average GPA for LSM at least is somewhere between 3.5-3.6. Average GPA at Wharton alone is like a 3.3. Average GPLA at the college is highly variable and really depends on the major.</p>
<p>In general, a student does as well as they want to (and have the drive to do). Much of the grading early on is based on the curve, so you’re graded relative to your peers. That means if you work harder/are smarter than your peers then you’ll do well. The best predictor of your success will be your background. If you were a top student in a competitive public high school you’ll find that your performance is consistently above the average and you’ll have no problem maintaining a 3.7+ while doing other stuff (can be hard not to sacrifice social if you’re going for 3.9+). If you were like a borderline case, athlete, legacy or come from a feeder private school, you’ll definitely find it harder to maintain a higher gpa because you won’t likely be as competitive. Unfortunately, both Wharton and science classes have among the harsher curves so you need to be on top of your game. Generally, I find that how well you do depends on the bar you set for yourself. If you’re an academically obsessed person you’ll naturally do better and will set a high bar (e.g. won’t be happy with anything below 3.8). Others, who aren’t as cut throat and prefer to relax more set a lower bar (e.g. 3.4) and are fine with that so they naturally adjust to that expectation and don’t put in as much effort. My best advice is to set a GPA goal and try hard to reach it (adjust based on where you find your natural equilibrium) and work from there. Since early on, your grading is based on where you stand relative to your peers you need to take a look at where you stand and see how well you can do accordingly.</p>
<p>@breaker476: Please don’t make statements that label people who “won’t be happy with anything below 3.8” as cutthroat. That’s not what being cutthroat means—it means stabbing people in the back to get what you want, lying, cheating, etc. I’ve met many Penn/Wharton/Dual-Degree students who aim for a 3.8+ but are the most honest, genuine, and non-cuttthroat individuals, ever. They <em>are</em> competitive—after all, grading is on a curve and your GPA affects if you get interviews for internships/jobs, etc. But they aren’t stabbing people in the back or “grade obsessed”. They party. They’re in Greek life & various on campus clubs. They BYO. But they value their grades just as much as they do the social scene. </p>
<p>To the OP: Just give it the best effort you can. Like others have mentioned, grading is on a curve, so you just need to do better than a certain percentage of your peers to get an A/A-/B+/etc. Don’t sell yourself short either—if you can get into Wharton/Penn, they’ve recognized something in you that makes you a future successful alumni!</p>
<p>@hardworking21, sorry you misinterpreted what I said. I meant to use cut throat as a synonym to competitive. And I never called those who go for 3.8+ cut throat (and if you thought that, I did not mean in a derogatory way since I’m one of those people). I simply said in a relative sense they are competitive compared to people going for a 3.4. Also, I was primarily labeling academically obsessed people, not everyone going for a 3.8+, to exaggerate/highlight a certain point-- that those who lock themselves in a room to do well will in fact do well. I too know many people going for 3.8+ who are not backstabbing/lying/cheating people. No need to nitpick on the most minor (didn’t even remember writing “cut throat”), unintentional point in my post.</p>
<p>@breaker746: I do apologize if I’ve read too much into your original post, but please understand that people labeling those students aiming for a 3.8+ (or some sort of top GPA) as over competitive, “cut throat”, unrealistic, grade obsessed, etc. is one of my biggest pet peeves. I’ve always stressed that while college is about a fun time (and Penn students definitely know how to have a fun time), there’s nothing wrong about aiming for a high if not perfect GPA and keeping your career prospects in mind. Again, I may have read too much into the post, but I’ve always applauded individuals such as our OP who wants a 3.7+ (which makes the Dean’s List, by the way), and I really dislike any notion of discouraging him/her/anyone from aiming this high.</p>
<p>PS. While cutthroat is a synonym for competitive, the conditions that make someone cutthroat (lying, backstabbing, etc.) are a bit intense.</p>
<p>I imagine that a 3.7 should be quite attainable if you not only put in the effort, but are smart and efficient in your studying. However, I caution you to not be so concerned about your GPA that you do not take academic risks. I find that there are many people with very high GPAs who are not as impressive as numbers would suggest. This is because they only take courses they know they can do well in and don’t really focus on learning. In the end, your GPA is just a number, but the knowledge you gain will help you throughout your life. And honestly, I believe that people recognize course rigor a lot more than most people think. They would rather have someone with a 3.5-3.7 who really challenged themselves and got a lot of their experience than someone with a 4.0 who just did the minimum required for their degree.</p>
<p>"If you were a top student in a competitive public high school you’ll find that your performance is consistently above the average and you’ll have no problem maintaining a 3.7+ "</p>
<p>“If you … come from a feeder private school, you’ll definitely find it harder to maintain a higher gpa because you won’t likely be as competitive.”</p>
<p>Right! So Exeter, Andover, Choate, Deerfield and Lawrenceville grads just don’t stack up to those from public schools, or the good ones just don’t stoop to Penn?</p>
<p>rhg3rd makes a good point! I have a 3.7, and I went to a large public school, but a lot of my friends went to Exeter/Andover/Choate and they’ve got 3.7’s (or higher) along with me. Perhaps it’s because we all study together and a fairly driven, but I agree with the sentiment that coming from a feeder private school doesn’t mean you aren’t prepared/competitive in the GPA game.</p>
<p>@rhg3rd-Firstly you took my statement out of context and did not list the “borderline case, athlete, legacy” which my statement was meant to apply to far more and I’m sure you’d agree, unless you’re so hung up on being politically correct. When I say feeder I’m not referring to elite boarding private schools. Im referring to more regional/local private schools. One private school in my area sends around 20 kids to Penn in a class of 50. If we use # of NMSF kids as a metric for how many top students there were (since only way to directly compare), they had 4. My public school had 12 NMSF, yet only 2 people from my hs got accepted. There are several private schools like this in my area (and I personally know some of the students) who are simply not as competitive–and I don’t mean that in a negative way. I apologize for your misunderstanding, I too know several students from those elite boarding private schools and know that they are very competitive. My statement was not in any way directed at those students.</p>
<p>I’ve been watching this thread for a while and I’ve gotta say, speaking about the College, maintaining a high GPA is fairly hard. </p>
<p>Math and science courses are tough and very few of my friends who are taking a lot of courses in these areas have a GPA far above a 3.0, and they put in a ton of time studying. Bs are not always easy to come by, and As are tough. </p>
<p>I personally take a lot of courses in the social sciences and humanities, and I’d say that average GPAs are higher in these fields, but not by a ton. It’s pretty tough to consistently have above a 3.5. </p>
<p>One interesting trend that I’ve discovered is that higher grades are actually easier to obtain in more advanced, smaller classes where the professor knows you well. Large classes with TA graders (or worse, non-TA graders) tend to be harder to get As in, so do not be afraid to take advanced classes. More often than not, they’ll actually help your GPA. </p>
<p>When I got into Penn, everyone told me that the hard part was behind me. They were absolutely wrong. It’s tough to get good grades.</p>
<p>^ It’s more Philly residents who get some preference, and not so much applicants from the suburbs or other parts of Pennsylvania. And we’re not really talking about large numbers overall–only about 16% of Penn’s Class of 2016 is from the entire state of Pennsylvania, INCLUDING Philadelphia and its suburbs.</p>