Making the short list taller?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>So, D is finishing junior year and has visited a number of schools. She has eliminated MT as a potential major (much to her parents' chagrin) and has come up with a short list of schools to which she wants to apply for popular music/commercial voice: Belmont University, USC Thornton, University of Denver, and University of Colorado Denver. She is doing some summer program work at Berklee, so maybe that will be added to the list but she says she wants a traditional college experience. She has looked into other programs in NYC and Miami, but they do not appeal to her for one reason or another. She wants to be in a big city - California (still not far from LA) being the only exception.</p>

<p>She has no desire to stay in-state (Ohio) and seem very narrowly focused on her choice of majors. But based on everything I've seen here, it sounds a little nuts to be applying to/auditioning for just 4 schools. She has had lessons and 3 of the 4 (all but USC) and the instructors at each has been very positive and encouraging. But still - only 4 schools? </p>

<p>Her current GPA is 4.15 and in her first crack at the ACT last December was a 28 (She said she took it "just to see what it was like" - did not prepare). Very active with volunteering and ECs. She will take the ACT again in June and probably in September with a Kaplan training course under her belt. </p>

<p>I'm sure many of the parents on here heard their kids say "But I can't see myself doing anything but (insert instrument/musical endeavor here)." Did you have them apply for schools where some other major would indeed be in play just to be safe?</p>

<p>So, should we feel comfy having her go for those 4 programs? It just seems like such a small number, especially considering they are all audition-based.</p>

2

<p>I asked this very same question years ago now! <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/565405-only-4-schools-we-nuts.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/565405-only-4-schools-we-nuts.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>In the end we made him apply to a complete safety - and an out of the box one at that - just in case - just for my peace of mind.</p>

3

<p>Is your daughter attending Berklee’s 5 week summer program? If so she will have an opportunity to audition for a scholarship during the summer. Although getting a scholarship during the 5 week does not mean that you are automatically admitted, if your grades are solid and your scores are solid then you will likely be admitted. If your daughter was able to get a scholarship during the 5 week then Berklee could be her safety school (assuming that you could still afford it…even 25-50% of Berklee tuition is a lot.)</p>

<p>My son only applied to conservatory programs (6 total). He did apply to one state school in a neighboring state (University of Southern Maine) because he heard that the Bass Professor there was amazing. And that was his safety/safety (both academically and financially). But he ended up never completing his application.</p>

4

<p>Four is tight to me (s applied to 8- 1 was a non audition based BA program safety EA). 4 would be OK if one of those above was an academic safety and admit could happen even without the music major if for some reason the audition was blown (ill, nerves, weather- who knows). We do know a student that only applied to 4 schools - Eastman, New School for Jazz, Juilliard, MSM. He said he only wanted to go to one of those 4 and he was admitted to half and still got to choose. So it can be done- btw…kid was at the top of the heap, chose Eastman and had attended a summer program there.</p>

5

<p>If your D is admitted can your family make those four schools work financially? </p>

<p>If you D is not admitted to any of the four programs is she happy to take a gap year or attend as a non-music major (assuming the school allows this… some schools have an “all or nothing” policy, meaning you apply to the major and the college and if not admitted you can not attend the school in a different major)?</p>

<p>What happens if later on she changes her mind. Do these schools offer the opportunity to switch to another major (even if an audition is required), or will she be in a position where she has to transfer to another university?</p>

<p>No need to post the answers. Just questions that might help your family decide if you are more comfortable with D adding more schools to the list.</p>

<p>:)</p>

6

<p>I would agree that 4 schools for commercial voice is probably fairly small, especially since USC is a very competitive admit for that and Belmont is reasonably competitive as well for the audition-based admit. </p>

<p>One does have to be guarded about the encouragement that teachers give at trial lessons; such encouragement can be misinterpretted. If the teacher has directly said that the student would certainly be admitted, that is one thing (and even those predictions can fall through when the program is small and a plethora of talented students audition in a particular year). </p>

<p>If, on the other hand, the teacher was merely warm, supportive, and encouraging, then that might say little about one’s chances of admission. Many good voice teachers have a deliberately nurturing and supportive demeanor towards all students with whom they work because that is usually helpful in developing singers (not sufficient, but almost always necessary–the strict overbearing belittling Russian approach that leaves the student in a weekly puddle of tears can work with violinists and pianists, but is almost always a disaster with singers). </p>

<p>I think that encouraging a non-music application is a good thing (they usually take very little time and effort), if only because students sometimes change their minds between October and April. I also think that having a safety takes pressure off students during audition season when nerves are so often on edge.</p>

<p>Strong academics and SAT/ACT scores will not help get a student into an audition-based program–only the audition will do that. Weak academics or test scores can keep students out of some programs (especially at places like USC). </p>

<p>All kinds of quirky things can happen with auditions (and most particularly with vocal auditions): sore throats, weather closing down airports (and schools not being able or willing to reschedule an audition), wacko accompanists, . . … As well, I think it is safe to say that the results of vocal auditions are less predictable than other instruments since a voice’s potential is harder to predict in a 17-year-old. Having more than 4 applications can be helpful!</p>

7

<p>If we’re being completely honest, my son applied to a total of 4 schools he would have been happy to attend. Which means the rest were actually only “safeties” for us parents. </p>

<p>Given that your daughter will have some idea how she feels about Berklee AND the fact that they have a nice early “early action,” I agree that could be a great “safety” for her as well (although perhaps not financially, as Stacjip said).</p>

<p>As for other ideas, has she considered the Clive Davis Recorded Arts program at NYU? (Although that is highly selective as well.) And I may be remembering wrong, but isn’t there now a commercial/popular option at U of Indiana Jacobs as well? (I may definitely be wrong.)</p>

<p>For many of the students we’ve gotten to know within USC’s popular music program, their “safeties” were either jazz or non-music programs. I guess they figured if they didn’t get into the right type of music program, they’d major in something else and just keep singing/playing/writing/performing on the side. Like they did in the old days, before popular music programs. And just like many still do.</p>

8

<p>Being in between college and adulthood, I can say that I know more than I did in high school but not quite as much as I would if I were a parent. </p>

<p>In a ton of cases, what you want to do changes in some way, or you find some sort of niche inside a broader area of study. I would suggest trying to ask her for an idea of a backup major and not just backup schools. It’s not uncommon for freshman to change their major by second year. So, maybe I would suggest at least trying to push her towards a school that has a ton of different options for her, and to enroll in a program that covers a lot of general music classes, just to see what she likes the best. Or at least a college that can offer different electives, even outside of the music program. It’s VERY important for students to get their feet wet in a bunch of different subjects. The fact that she wants that “college experience” is really good, and the fact that she wants to go to a big school. Both of those would provide her opportunities that Berklee would not. </p>

<p>I think it’s super important to expose her to different types of classes, even if she’s really set on something. It would probably make you feel better as well. The truth of it is, a lot of students her age have her heart set on x major, or x dream. But really lots of times, the only reason they have that goal is because they know little about everything else.</p>

9

<p>Piggyback onto zalexx- S was positive Berklee was his top choice beginning junior year (pop music emphasis), positive New York was where he would be at the beginning of Sr Year (jazz major now). NYU was THE school until January of Senior year when USC took over- this is where he ended up. They change so much in senior year- be prepared!</p>

10

<p>Squiggles, my son told us with confidence that he wanted to go to New England Conservatory and major in performance starting in his sophomore year of HS. And next year that is exactly where he is going. I worry about him having this single minded determination, but his teacher told me that it takes that sort of passion to make it in such a difficult field. </p>

<p>I worry about my baby. His older sister had this sort of determination and went off to NYU Tisch for acting and is now in the medical sciences. We can’t afford a 5 or 6 year college plan for our youngest though and we have had to be very clear that if he changes course, like his sister he is going to have to seek funding for those extra years of school.</p>

<p>Then again my middle son studied Jazz Guitar and after attending Berklee’s 5 week decided he did not want to go to college for music. But one thing he has said, and this means a lot as this child has significant learning disabilities, is that because of his serious study of music he feels he can learn anything. And I have seen that happen. He is pretty dyslexic and insisted on taking Russian this year. And much to our surprise it has not been a disaster. In fact he actually enjoyed it and did well.</p>

11

<p>StacJip- great story! Just goes to show- they are who they are- all on different paths. Very exciting to watch them grow up :)</p>

12

<p>Is it just me or did this not seem so complicated when we (today’s parents) were thinking about college 25-35 years ago? Probably because we had no internet to “help” us! ;-)</p>

13

<p>and on the flip side my kid will be applying to 16 in the fall…flute of course.</p>

14

<p>K8sdad-</p>

<p>It was a lot easier in our day (I graduated college in the mid 80’s for a reference) and that was across the board. The pressure on kids today is staggering and the incredible competition to get into selective colleges and such is kind of mind boggling compared to what I remember. In music performance it is a different world as well, while getting into an auditioned program was always competitive it is nothing like it is today in music. In the violin world and piano (I mentioned those because I know them well) or in flute, a generation ago someone could be a typical high school music student, not really be all that accomplished, and get into pretty high level programs to ‘get serious’, today that would be literally next to impossible, kids have been forced to make that decision earlier and earlier, where they commit almost to a single minded focus on their instrument. The rough parallel to music is what has always existed in dance or in things like olympic gymnastics and skating and swimming and so forth (and for much the same reason, in Olympic sports a lot of that had to do with the single minded determination of the eastern block/soviet union to win medals; today it is China that is repeating this pattern, and in music Korea and China have done similar things, with the obsessive focus). </p>

<p>Zalexx, your post is a wise one, but I also think there are some caveats to what you posted. The idea of well roundedness,of being exposed to different areas is a good one, especially as you point out your dreams change (or die) as you move on, pre meds end up in computer science or another discipline when they realize it isn’t for them, and so forth. It is one of the reason colleges have core courses (the other reason is there is still the vestige of the old idea of a classical education, where gentleman needed a wide breadth of knowledge to maintain polite conversation at their clubs; the last reason is my cynicism, that core courses provide employment for teachers in subjects few kids would take if they didn’t have to:). I could also argue that those ‘wide breadth’ of knowledge the core courses we have to take may not be as broadening as they claim, to be honest while i had some courses I loved, a lot of them were simply what fit my schedule and made the requirements, not exactly memorable.</p>

<p>I also caution about the idea that music training, even in a conservatory, isn’t as ‘broad based’ as going to a liberal arts college. While the liberal ed course offerings at juilliard aren’t exactly bennington college, the broadness of music performance training is in a different form and in many ways they learn a lot of things kids in Harvard don’t have to do. The lessons in ensemble playing, handling chamber and sonatas and so forth is much broader then you have in typical UG education. Things like music theory study, ear training and music history and analysis brings their own version of multitalentedness, and there is very little in academic study that enhances the ability to improve memory like memorizing pieces, such as concertos:). </p>

<p>My point isn’t that Zalexx is wrong, I know of more then a few musical students who did exactly what he said, decided music wasn’t for them and finished with an academic degree so it isn’t a bad thing necessarily to have options. However, for us dear old worrying parent sorts, ‘jumping off the bridge’ into a music only program is not as dangerous as it seems, either. Based on real world experience of colleagues who are ex music majors (IT/tech is full of them), the kind of training music students gets can be just as ‘useful’ as many academic degrees, especially these days with many things you need to go to grad school anyway. My point being if the kid goes into a music program, finishes it and decides they don’t want to go into music, they still have a lot of options open to them, it isn’t like those 4 years were ‘wasted’, they aren’t.</p>

15

<p>Our oldest applied to 4 colleges, and youngest (a performer) applied to 2 (last year). Since they chose wisely, it worked out.</p>

<p>Our composer daughter had not yet resolved the conflict between an academic BA and a BM, when she was doing applications. Things really can change during senior year, so she kept options open. We also had financial concerns. She applied to 4 conservatories and two colleges, and is at a college (in the end, finances were a big part of the decision), as a music major.</p>

<p>When auditions are involved, I think it is actually a good idea to keep the numbers down, but I don’t know that much about the odds for commercial/popular voice programs.</p>

<p>There is also the possibility of getting involved in other academic interests (as you said) and doing a lot of music on the side, as extracurricular or off campus.</p>

<p>Finally, as people said in the 2008 thread that Spirit Manager refers to, some kids would prefer a gap year to going to a school they don’t want to go to. Some use that year to practice, learn and perform and then try again.</p>

16

<p>I feel like I have a unique perspective, as I have been gainfully employed my entire working life in one of the “arts,” but (like many, but not all, who do what I do, no matter their age) did not study my “art” in college or in grad school.</p>

<p>An academic non-audition/non-music application or two make a great Plan B/safety, and in no way rule out a future in popular music (even though the same might not be true for classical).</p>

<p>Just food for thought.</p>

17

<p>In classical music there are people who didn’t get a BM degree but rather a liberal arts degree (while studying privately with a teacher), so it does happen. A lot of those people don’t go directly into music out of UG, they generally will get an MM at that point, so it is a valid career path, if not the norm (one note, though, you would need to be studying with a high level teacher during college, so if you do decide to do something where you don’t major in music, make sure that there is a high level teacher available either through the school or somewhere nearby. Just because a school has a school of music doesn’t mean the faculty there is going to be a good choice…).</p>

18

<p>@musicprnt</p>

<p>You’re right, I don’t undermine the education you get at music school whatsoever. Heck, I even considered Full Sail for Recording Arts and that’s about as strict as you get when it comes to wanting to dabble into another field. It’s ultimately up to the student, but if they’re on the fence about anything, even if it’s within the music field, then it’s best to keep their options open. I’m not sure if the OP’s D wants to only take vocal, or go into any sort of production? Theory? Any composition? I’m not sure what “commerical” really entails. Wherever she chooses though, she’s more likely than not going to have to take an array of music courses, which will be good. I suggest when looking at all of the schools as a whole, pick apart individual courses, and the curriculum for the desire major. Make sure the courses in there are interesting and useful. </p>

<p>@compmom </p>

<p>I also think a gap year is extremely important, even if you don’t think it’s needed. I don’t think any student should be pressured to be going into college right after high school. I think it’s a good time to take a break, do practicing, ( if it’s a performance major their after). And just get in touch with what it is they want to do. If money is available, I highly suggest doing some traveling to the college she wants to go. Talk with whoever she can at the individual schools IN PERSON. Let her see the facilities, let her get a feel for all of the schools. Taking the gap year would allow her to have time to do these things without the stress of any school or anything else she’s involved with. It’s a perfect time for her to really decide if commercial music is where she wants to be heading as well. I’m not sure where you guys live or if it’s even possible to do traveling to places like USC. But if she’s never been to the west coast, then I would suggest at least going there before it’s highly considered an option for a school.</p>

<p>EDIT, </p>

<p>reading back I see that she has visited some schools, and is located in Ohio. Not sure if that includes the Colorado or California schools.</p>

19

<p>I just realized something else that is important to add to this thread. Regarding Berklee. Berklee is in a part of Boston that is surrounded by other colleges. Because of that there is a program called ProArts that allows students at selected schools in the Fenway to cross register at each others schools at no extra cost. The program is easy to use and current students rave about it. I have met kids at the School of Museum of Fine Arts who have taken classes at Berklee and kids at Berklee who have taken classes at the SMFA. Emerson college is also part of Pro-Arts. You can learn more about it here
[The</a> Professional Arts Consortium](<a href=“http://www.proarts.org/]The”>http://www.proarts.org/)</p>

<p>Another consortium that exists are the “Colleges of the Fenway”. This consortium is mostly for the libraries which share materials. But when I talked with one of the Librarians who works for a consortium school, he told me about all these kids from various schools in the area who cross register and take advantage of the other colleges in the area. He even told me he knew a kid who took a class at MIT (which is across the river about 2 miles from Berklee). Granted it takes a certain determined personality to make that happen. But it can be done and it is part of what makes attending school in Boston so exciting for young people as there are so many resources all located within walking distance of each other.</p>

20

<p>@zalexx,</p>

<p>We have been to all schools but USC. She is laser focused on her goals - working performer/musician with the skills to manage her career. That’s what these programs offer. She will get plenty of vocal training, but all classes that deal with production, artist management, contracts, accounting for artists, etc. It’s the only thing keeping my wife from having an aneurism thinking of her pursuing this path! ;-)</p>

<p>Academically, she has the chops to get into 3 or the 4 schools without issue (thinking USC is possible but not a slam dunk and not in the running for much needed merit money). Having 2 other kids behind her who will also want to go to college (a 14 year old drummer and a 10 year old who swears she wants to be a prosecuting attorney!), money is a consideration - we cannot go “all in” paying for child 1 to go to her dream school.</p>

<p>@StacJip - thanks for the ProArts information - really interesting!</p>