Managing Expectations

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

My daughter is in 10th grade, and has been getting a lot of interest from schools - including some ivies - because of her 10th grade SAT scores. I believe they were 1340/1520. CR 720/760 Math 620/760. She’s never actually done any SAT prep, and said that at the time of testing, had not learned all the math she needed to. She feels like she has now, and will do better when she takes the PSAT in the fall.

She’s African American and first generation American (I’m from the Caribbean).

She doesn’t have a whole lot going on besides the fact that she is doing well academically.
When we moved from NY to TX, I tried to get her involved in sports. Everyone here starts at the age of like 2, and they were so much more advanced. She tried, but just didn’t feel like she was good enough.

I’m an RN, and a singe parent. I have sacrificed working 2 jobs - 7 days a week - for the past 7 years, so that we can live in a good school district - which is another reason why she hasn’t gotten too involved.

She did qualify for Duke TIP in 7th grade and took the SAT at that time and scored high enough on the reading to get into the program.

She’s just got into NHS and NTHS.
She is in the gifted and talented program in her school.
She has done all PRE AP and AP School work
Her UW GPA is 3.97/4.0. Her only B so far has been in Geometry. I believe weighted is 5.3 (her gifted and talent class is weighted out of 6.0)
She’s in the top 10%
She is in Student Council and UNICEF clubs
She has some volunteer hours, but will be volunteering and Boys & Girls Club this summer and getting a summer internship at a start-up app company in NYC. I believe she will be able to stay on an a brand ambassador for them during the year.

Outside of school, she had a little jewelry company for some time. She’d make and sell to her friends. She also loves editing film in her spare time.

She doesn’t know what she wants to major in, but she really wants to go to an ivy. I’m trying to manage her expectations because we all know how competitive they are. I’m sure most people that apply are more qualified than she is. She’s also considering Amherst, Middlebury, Wesleyan, and probably Carnegie Mellon - which I know are also super competitive.

My question is: Is there anything else that she can be doing at this time, or is it too late? Should we be focusing more on more local or state schools? She really wants to go back to the Northeast. She really misses the people/culture, and all of our family still lives in NY.

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When you take the PSATs, you get interest from a lot of schools.

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It sounds like your daughter is doing great. Her grades are good and she will likely have high test scores. I would just let her continue doing what she enjoys outside of class. I am not one for packaging kids for colleges, so others may give different advice.

As far as expectations go, if she stays on this trajectory, it sounds like she actually could have a decent shot at tippy-top schools. I would make sure to tell her that it’s a bit early to start worrying about that, and just focus on high school. I’d make sure she understands that it’s really really hard to get into those schools, and that it will be important to line up safety schools (schools that she would be happy attending and that are affordable).

Adding: if finances will be an issue, I’d lay the groundwork with her on that, letting her know that affordability is going to be a big part of the puzzle.

4

Have her study for the SAT. A PSAT of 1340 is not very good for schools like the Ivy. When you take the PSAT you get a bunch of “interest” from all sorts of schools. Most of it is just meaningless advertisement but I know that some schools do give out merit fee waivers for excellent performance on tests like SAT II so you should still sift through the mail

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She hasn’t taken the PSAT as yet. She took the 10th grade SAT and it was scored out of 1520. I’ll check the SAT forum and see what study guides are recommended, and we’ll work on getting her PSAT and SAT grades up. Thank you.

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She definitely has good chances with that summer internship. However, she should either increase her volunteering or get a job in order to show responsibility.
Because someone else commented on price, keep in mind the Ivies (and all of the schools in the QuestBridge program) match your financial need (usually according to the FAFSA, but you’re also required to fill out the CSS Profile for the Ivies). That means you don’t have to take cost into consideration when deciding whether to apply there.

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@Taborix Thanks. I’ll start looking at more volunteer opportunities that she try to do during the school year.

She’ll have a busy year next year with the PSAT, SAT, and AP tests. We’ve been reading through some of these forums and school websites, and realize that a lot of these schools even want SAT subject tests.

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@salma45 - so I think you’re confusing things a little, your daughter took the PSAT, the new PSAT is out of 1520 and it’s the PSAT/NMSQT that gives the scores and names to colleges, not the SAT/college board. A 1340 is a good score for tenth grade, but the PSAT score is not used in admissions, like zero. The only thing that could be a benefit is if your daughter did well in the 11th grade PSAT and was named a semi-finalist. That depends on the state, out here in California, the cutoff I believe was 1470-ish out of 1520.

Your daughter also has a hook, maybe two, I’m a new member of CC and realizing some of the acronyms here, but URM, (under represented minority) is one, along with applicants who are the first to attend colleges in their families, so maybe that’s another. I would recommend what others are saying, - just have your daughter do what she wants, and not worry too much about admissions right now.

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11th grade PSAT is very important, since it is the qualifier for National Merit, which can cause lots of colleges to offer her good scholarships: http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com/

As the parent, you need to evaluate your finances to figure out what you can contribute for her college costs and run some net price calculators (not just on the super-selective schools, most of which have super-good financial aid, but also on less selective schools, such as in-state public universities) to get an idea of what is realistic financially. And be sure to tell her about what is realistic financially before fall of 12th grade when she makes her application list – you do not want to have the huge letdown in April of her getting into a bunch of highly desired schools which are all too expensive.

Make sure to impress upon her that the most important school on her application list is a safety that she is assured of admission, assured of affordability, and which she likes.

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@theloniusmonk You’re correct. It was the PSAT. She takes it again in the fall, and I am looking into good prep books. I know that the score can’t be used for admissions, but it’s the only score I have right now, so I just provided it for reference.

Thanks for explaining URM as well. I’ve been seeing it in posts, and couldn’t figure out what it was.

Once she started getting mail from colleges, we both started feeling pressure when we started to look at the requirements for these schools. There are some kids/parents who have the resources and plan out their whole HS careers.

I have a friend who went to Harvard UG and business school. Her husband went UG and law school there as well. They have a daughter in 7th grade who is researching the best high schools in the area, and telling everyone that will listen that she is going to Harvard.

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@ucbalumnus Thanks for the link and the advice.
I don’t think she’ll qualify for much financial aid, so i’ll definitely start looking at some calculators to determine how much i’ll be able to afford.

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salma, - legacy is also a hook so yes your friend’s daughter has a real good chance at Harvard. If you’re a single mom, you should get plenty financial aid, don’t worry about the cost of private college yet, think of the cost as a sticker price of car, nobody pays the sticker and you won’t either. And colleges know which families can afford college planning and which won’t. Study for the PSAT but take the SAT around the same time, so the PSAT studying will help in taking the SATs.

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@theloniusmonk great advice. I didn’t even consider having her taking them at the same time. That should cut down on her stress if she studies hard during the summer. I’ve reviewed the dates for both. The school would administer the PSAT I believe on Oct 11, and there is SAT on Oct 7. If she takes the SAT before PSAT would that affect her if she should qualify to be a national merit school?

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I agree to take them around the same time - the studying/prep can then be for both tests at once.

But I strongly disagree with this:

At Harvard, which has extremely generous financial aid, about 40% of all students do, in fact, pay sticker price.

Run the NPC.

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@salma45, both of my daughters took the SAT a few weeks before the PSAT - that is totally fine. You can find prep materials for the PSAT here and on Khan Academy’s website: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/psat-nmsqt-psat-10/practice. Collegeboard also sells SAT prep books through bookstores, probably their website too. It’s called The Official SAT Study Guide. Make sure you get the most current version.

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salma, - you can take the SAT before or after the PSAT, it doesn’t matter and won’t affect her chances for the finalist round. Note that only the PSAT is used for semi-finalist, the SATs come into play for selecting finalists.

@OHMomof2 - you’re right, I over generalized, in this situation though - a single mother working two jobs, seven days a week, I’d be shocked if her daughter didn’t get financial aid.

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Actually, a low income/wealth single parent with an uncooperative or high income/wealth ex-spouse may find that the kid will get no or not enough financial aid at the usually-generous schools that require both parents’ financial information for financial aid purposes (the school will say on its financial aid pages whether the CSS Noncustodial Profile or something similar is needed).

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Run the npc 's.
Right now it sounds like she’s out of the Texas rat race to be top 7% by gaming rankings, good for her.
She’s doing everything right and I wouldn’t necessarily increase volunteer hours - what matters is what she does with her free time as well as her character as it shines in class or with others. Volunteering isn’t a matter of hours but of impact.
Taking subject tests after she’s done with the subject is the most efficient way of handling it, so if there is a possibility for her to take subject tests in May or June in (a) subject(s) she just completed it could be an efficient way for her to handle those. For example, if she took world history this year she could take the subject test.
What you can do is have her take college tours to get an idea of what she likes in terms of settings, size, vibe… . In Texas, you can visit UT and St Edwards (2 very different colleges in Austin) then add whatever 's nearby: which felt 'right’s and why? (specify you don’t mean she’d be going there but rather she can use these visits to have more concrete ideas of her must haves or must not’s). In NYS she could visit Vassar and Marist in Poughkeepsie; Barnard, Columbia, Fordham, Nyu in NYC. She would get an idea about urban vs. College town vs. Rural, women’s college vs. LAC vs. Research university, campus vs. no campus…
Because there are so many colleges out there, you may encourage her to borrow Princeton review 's best colleges or Fisk guide, start reading putting a post it on the ones she likes.

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@MYOS1634 I actually only found out about SAT subject tests because of this forum. Do colleges tend to prefer those over AP tests? She did 1 AP test in freshman year, and has another this year. In her junior year, she said she has 4-5. She is open to taking 2 subject tests (1 definitely in biology, because that’s her favorite subject).

I ran a few of the financial aid calculators with my 2016 taxes, and was surprised at how much grant money she’d qualify for. Most of the ones that I used put her out of pocket costs at about 5,500. I believe that was with a work-study program and about 4k in financial aid. Do you know if these figures tend to be pretty accurate?

We’re planning on visiting some schools in New England during the summer, but since she will be in NYC for 6 weeks, I think it’s a great idea to have her knock out some of the schools there.

Thanks so much for the advice. I definitely appreciate it.

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I think your daughter is on a good track. If she scores around a 1500 or above on the SAT (or a 33+ on the ACT), then that would push her into the realm of being competitive. The URM status is a huge hook, but your daughter needs to focus on her extracurriculars. What is she passionate about? To get accepted at an Ivy, her extracurriculars have to be special. Leadership, national awards, publication, etc are all examples of good extracurriculars, and it helps if they are connected to show deep interest.