<p>My daughter has been admitted into ChemE at various state schools and is having a hard time deciding where to go. We are looking at 4 schools: Two of which (Ohio State and University of Colorado) offer co-ops, but are not mandatory; the other two (University of Cincinnati and University of Toledo) are mandatory co-ops (which are built into the curriculum). </p>
<p>Why do some schools make Co-ops Mandatory as opposed to others that do not? Aside from the obvious (ability to make money), what are the benefits to graduating from a school with a mandatory co-op program?</p>
<p>Any insight will be appreciated. Also, with regard to the 4 schools noted above (OSU, CU, Cincinnati, Toledo), will she be more marketable with a degree from one school as opposed to another?</p>
<p>I see no advantage graduating from a mandatory co-op schools vs. a voluntary co-op school. However, there is a big difference between graduating with co-op experience and graduating with no experience.</p>
<p>Some schools make co-oping mandatory because it is extremely beneficial for students interested in going in practice as an engineer to co-op or intern (basically the same thing) at least 2 semesters. The students learn a considerable amount and are better positions for the job market with experience. Other schools do not make it mandatory because if your interests are outside of traditional engineering practice (such as going to grad school, med school, law school, business, etc) then the co-op experience may not be the best option (for example, you might be better off volunteering in a hospital or working on research). As a result, schools give students the option to co-op or not.</p>
<p>As far as finding a co-op, I would talk to the two non-mandatory schools (call career services) and ask for information about placement. Are freshman frequently placed in internships/co-ops, how many offers per student on average, what sort of assistance is given to students, etc. They should be willing and able to help you with this. </p>
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<p>Ohio State and Colorado are better schools than Cincinnati and Toledo so unless she has a strong preference for either of those last two schools, I would encourage her to look at Ohio State and Colorado. Those are the more marketable degrees.</p>
<p>As a student at OSU (ChemE as well) I can tell you that you are better off at OSU or Bolder than UC and Toledo. Not that anything is wrong with either schools, OSU and Im sure Bolder as well get better companies at career fairs and offer more opportunities. UC and Toledo are often limited to more local companies (UC would have a slight edge over Toledo given P&G) while bigger well know state schools gets a multitude of companies including non engineering companies that might interest your daughter (JPMorgan, Accenture). If you have any questions about OSU’s ChemE program feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>While co-ops provide very valuable experience, your kid shouldn’t have to go to a ‘mandatory’ co-op school. I co-oped while in school (not mandatory,) and as noted, it was great experience that made it pretty easy for me to find full-time employment. But I do not know that having “co-op” experience would necessarily provide an added benefit over just having summer internships. The co-op MIGHT help in that you would spend time working rather than just taking classes, allowing you to potentially grab an extra few months of work experience prior to graduation. (I officially interned 1 summer, co-oped 1 winter and then “co-oped” the 2 summers.)</p>
<p>So I just can’t see why attending a mandatory co-op school would provide any added benefit. If you have the drive to apply for co-ops or internships at a non-mandatory school, you would be just as well-off as a student at a mandatory school. And I’m guessing that at a better school, you would have more opportunities as well. With that said, Colorado and OSU are the better schools on your list. I’m guessing you are from Ohio. OSU is one of the biggest schools in the country, there will be plenty of opportunities for ChemEs there. I would probably save my money and attend OSU over Colorado. If I could get in to OSU, wouldn’t really consider UT or UC.</p>
<p>A mandatory co-op program has integrated the class schedules with the co-op periods including possibly alternating co-op schedules for multiple people so a company has a filled position continuously. This requires offering a class in your major more than once a year coordinating co-op with classes so the student does not get out of sequence and delay graduation.</p>
<p>If the school does not require co-op chances are they do not schedule required classes more than once a year (depends on popularity of major/co-oping). Co-oping puts the person at risk of missing a required class delaying graduation for a year. You can still intern during the summer but then you’re competing with a very large pool of candidates.</p>
<p>You need to look at the schedule of when classes are offered particularly during the sophomore and junior years to determine if your core requirements are offered so you don’t get out of sequence if you co-op during the year. THis is going to be more difficult when there is a switch to semesters and the school decides there isn’t enough interest to offer a class multiple times during the year.</p>
<p>I would agree that one of the biggest benefits of the mandatory program is that because it is so structured and built into the curriculum, it helps to keep the student on track for graduation while gaining the maximum amount of work experience and thus more marketability. When it is not mandatory, the student must not only have more “drive” to seek out co-op or intern opportunities on their own and may encounter more difficulties with course scheduling but they may also have more responsibility in dealing with other issues such as how financial aid is impacted, or scheduling and taking other courses or seminars that might be required before doing co-op even at schools with non-mandatory programs - learning basic stuff like how to write a resume, interviewing etc (many mandatory programs include seminars and courses on this in their curriculum). The built-in structure of a strong co-op program can be a huge benefit for some students and is why my S, who has enough organizational and time-mangement issues to begin with, focused on schools with very strong or mandatory co-op programs and ended up at Northeastern.</p>
<p>There is also a greater sense of normalcy when everyone else around you is doing co-op as well…</p>
<p>I have recently graduated from a school where co-op is not mandatory. Only a small number of students did co-op and the selection of jobs was rather limited. I know people who go to schools where co-op is mandatory and the job selection is far superior. </p>
<p>That being said, the majority of my class opted to go for the non-coop option and are pretty much all employed even with the economy.</p>
<p>Companies might recruit more heavily at mandatory-co-op schools, because they know that the students are definitely interested (in large numbers).</p>
<p>However, I still prefer the flexibility of a non-coop-school.</p>
<p>If you have high marks and you know what you want to do with your degree I really don’t see any benefit in doing a co-op over just doing summer internships. Financially its just going to hurt you.</p>
<p>This is very much school dependent. I hire co-ops at both mandatory and non-mandatory schools (including Ohio State and Cincinnati from the list above). At many of the non-mandatory schools, you see more opportunities than at the mandatory schools. This is particularly true because at the non-mandatory schools you can hire interns where there is lower risk.</p>
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<p>The biggest advantage of a co-op over a summer internship is that freshman and sophomores usually have a difficult time finding internship opportunities unless they are at a top school. On the other hand, freshman usually have no problem finding a co-op.</p>
<p>Another advantage is that if you return to the same company repeatedly, you can frequently work on longer projects. I have seen cases where two students are on alternating semesters and work on a multi-year project swapping off every semester. I’ve also seen cases where one student is given a year long project that she completes over 3 terms (so 2 years of actual time).</p>
<p>The biggest disadvantage to co-oping is that that in the summer semesters you take fewer classes for the same price. So it takes 9 semesters of tuition to graduate instead of 8.</p>
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<p>I think this is something that people are missing. In mandatory schools, it’s not uncommon to hear about students assigned to a plant 1000 miles away in a desert or who are assigned to an international location (imagine working in Juarez City, Mexico or in the Yukon during the winter months). In a non-mandatory school, you can choose where you go, how many semesters you want to be there, and if you want to look elsewhere for opportunities. It seems to me that the students who are hurt the most by mandatory co-ops are the 3.0+ students at better schools (students that have plenty of opportunities) and the students helped the most are the <2.5 GPA students from lower tier schools (who do not have as many options).</p>
<p>The student still has to interview for a job and be hired on his merits, likewise a student can turn down a co-op position for good reasons. Like any job, there are many positions available and many people applying for those positions, it is up to you to be the best candidate. Mandatory does not mean you are assigned a job. Mandatory means you must have completed X number (typically 3) of co-ops. If you find somewhere on your own that you’d like to work the coop department will help you get the job, and use it as a coop experience. That is how they can increase the number of employers they have. It is up to you to select the best positions for you, and then be the best candidate.</p>
<p>I have never heard of anyone being assigned anywhere. The coop departments want to keep there employers and their reputations, to do that they have to show them that they have highly motivated, qualified people. If they assigned someone to a position that they didn’t want, or were unqualified for it would be disastereous. Ask any coop department and they will all tell you that you must be hired. Believe me if you don’t want to work in Juarez they’ll know during the interview and you won’t be hired.</p>
<p>I cooped and the beauty of going to a school that requires coop is that they have created a schedule that allows coops going to school during the summer to take their full load core and elective courses.</p>
<p>That is how it works at many schools. The companies agree to take some co-ops, the school gives that company 5 resumes or so per job opening, the company interviews those 5 people, then ranks them. Similarly, the students are given 5 interviews then rank the companies. Then the school matches companies and students. Sometimes you are given an advisor that tries to meet certain needs (like finding you a position near your home or finding you a position in a specific industry), but that’s not guaranteed.</p>
<p>This is done because you’ll inevitably have some students with very low GPA’s, terrible resumes, or terrible interview skills that will not find a position otherwise.</p>
<p>Apologies to the OP for the hijack, but what is the distinction between a co-op and an internship? I’ve always used these interchangeably, but I see a distinction in many posts on this thread and others unrelated to engineering majors.</p>
<p>Is it credit versus no credit toward graduation? Paid or unpaid? Length of employment?</p>
<p>Most companies use the two interchangeably. But a Co-op generally means you intern 3 to 5 times during college with the same company in a school-work-school-work pattern. When a company hires you, they (and you) are committing to the 3 to 5 semesters of employment (unless you are terrible). An internship is generally a one-time employment with a company for one semester. It’s very common to intern with the same company repeatedly, but it is not given. Also, most interns typically work in the summers only, though there are Spring and Fall internships. </p>
<p>In summary: a co-op is usually a very structured program dictated by the school. An internship is a more free-flowing program that you can customize. You can have 6-month internships (instead of 1 semester), you can have internships that are recurring every summer, you can intern with 3 different companies in 3 different industries, you can intern at night while going to school during the day, etc.</p>
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<p>First of all, all engineering interns (and co-ops) should be paid. If you are not paid, it greatly limits what you are legally allowed to do as an intern. Basically all an unpaid intern can do is get coffee and watch another engineer work. Being paid (even if just minimum wage) allows you to do value added work: perform calculations, design components, manage projects, etc - the things you want to put on your resume.</p>
<p>As far as credit to graduation, most schools do not award credit for co-op or internships, though both usually show up on the transcript. Sometimes schools have “co-op” designations that you can get on your diploma if you complete a certain number of co-op semesters, but really that doesn’t matter. All that matters is experience on the resume and the stories you can relay in an interview.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your input and opinions. My daughter definitely wants to coop and the mandatory schools do build their curriculum around the coop tracks which is appealing. Also, U of Toledo has offered her a fantastic scholarship (practically full tuition); Colorado has thrown a couple thousand at her (she qualifies for in-state tuition as her dad lives out there, but doesn’t want to be that far from mom); and Cinci and OSU have offered her nothing. Money is an issue (as we will not qualify for any financial aid) and she has worked her butt off with a 4.0 taking as challenging a high school curriculum as possible. Quite frankly, it is very had to walk away from free money. Even though OSU has a great rep, I think she feels like she will just be a number there. We are heading down to OSU (again) to attend their admitted engineering tour next week. Hopefully after that tour, she will have a better idea what the best fit for her will be. Thanks again !</p>
<p>wish I would have thought of this before (and now it may be too late for Toledo) but both Toledo and Cincinnati are members of the NCCE which offers scholarships to students who attend their school. I just looked at their site and deadline was 2/15 but Cinn has apparently extended its deadline to 3/15 - you can only receive it if you attend Cinn but can’t hurt to apply…</p>
<p>Are there any schools with non mandatory coop where the majority of students participate? That would seem like a good compromise. No requirement, but if majority are in, there should be lots of opportunities and many fellow students in the same boat.</p>
<p>Interestingly, co-op at Northeastern is not mandatory but most students do them, especially in engineering. However, they do have an experiential learning requirement which can be fulfilled in other ways besides co-op (research, community service, etc)</p>
<p>My son graduated from a co-op-optional school. Relatively few students did co-op compared to the majority of the students who did internships. Upon graduation, everybody from both routes was employed (or enrolled in graduate school).</p>
<p>The one possible disadvantage of co-oping in a school where the majority do internships is that you get “off schedule” with your friends. You are working when they are taking classes, then you are taking classes over the summer when they are working. However, from an employment perspective, co-op and internship seemed to be equal.</p>