<p>Something to be aware of regarding Mannes is that it has twice as many grad students as undergrads. Its graduate programs are much stronger than its undergrad programs. As a freshman, I think you will be better served by attending CIM for undergrad and then look at Mannes for grad school if you are still interested in pursuing an MM.</p>
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<p>Does it make any sense to audition for Curtis and get an artist’s diploma or second bachelors if you have an instrumental performance degree from another school? Or would one be better served by going into a MM program elsewhere?</p>
<p>I would definitely agree that Mannes as a music program is not as strong as CIM, while they do have teachers who teach at other high level programs on a whole it is not as strong, the level of the students there is not as strong as programs like CIM, etc. I have heard Mannes performing groups in action, and they were not up to what I have heard at top programs.</p>
<p>Obviously, being in NYC Mannes does have advantages, there are a ton of music performances going on, there are opportunities for gigs and so forth and making contact with musicians in the NY music scene and while it is not in the top tier it still is pretty competitive.I don’t know what CIM’s facilities are like, from what I have seen of Mannes facilities they tend to be older and the space seems cramped, and I have heard that practice rooms and such are relatively limited (can’t confirm that). </p>
<p>There are some top level students who go there and they do have some good faculty, for me what it would boil down to is at CIM it is likely a student will be surrounded by students at their level and more at higher levels, as Mannes they likely would be surrounded by a lot more students at their level or lower, based on the average levels of playing as I see it.</p>
<p>I have heard Mannes had a strong vocal music program, but that is outside my area of knowledge and whether that was UG or Grad.</p>
<p>But Mannes seems to have a pretty strong violin faculty? Sally Thomas, Michelle Kim, etc etc?</p>
<p>Practice rooms at CIM are adequate but there is occasionally a wait- more for VP students because they hold out for the ones with the best pianos! Two venues for recitals and performance: the older, traditional Kulas Hall and the new, state of the art Mixon Hall. The two orchestras-every instrumental student plays in one of then from the beginning- play in Kulas and each group plays in Severance Hall during the school year.</p>
<p>I guess it really depends on what your ultimate goals are. My son, a cellist, attended Eastman for undergrad and Mannes for grad. He had fabulous teachers at both schools. He liked the theory classes he took at Mannes as they were very different from his Eastman theory classes. He found the level of the orchestras to be pretty inferior at Mannes. He had great chamber groups at both schools. Other than the theory classes, he found most of his other classes to be uninspiring. If your ultimate goal is to play in an orchestra, you will be much better off going to CIM. If your goal is to be a soloist, you might be better served at Mannes where you will have access to all that NYC has to offer. And while the teachers at Mannes may be wonderful, I agree that the caliber of the undergrad string students at Mannes is probably less than that of the students at CIM.</p>
<p>LifeofSolitude-</p>
<p>There are some good string faculty at Mannes as others have mentioned before. One thing to find out is how many students they teach their, for example Sally Thomas teaches at both the pre college and college at Juilliard so she may have limited students at Mannes, so it is important to find out if you get into Mannes how likely you could get someone like them. It is kind of like the high profile teachers at any school, for example, at a Juilliard, a lot of students would love to study with Cho Lin or Itzak Perlman, but they only have a tiny number of students and take very few any given year, so it can be difficult to get them. </p>
<p>Again, the thing about comparing programs can go beyond the teacher; while having a great teacher is critical, the level of the program also can matter, as can things like access to performing opportunities. I know students at some pretty well regarded programs who do outside ensemble work because while their teachers are good, the ensembles in the program aren’t in general that good, and it something to think about. </p>
<p>In weighing between programs, it is why it is important to factor in all things, not just the repute of the program. Among other things, it may be wise to have a great teacher in a less strong program if the less strong program is better for you financially, for example. Mannes is still a competitive program and if you can get a great teacher there, a student can do very well I suspect and you need to weight everything into it. Put it this way, going to CIM or Mannes based on their name won’t help much when you go out into the world,if you are talking music performance then they don’t look at your resume and say “aha, you went to Mannes, it is ‘lower’ then other schools, sorry, you don’t interview”, it isn’t like applying to be an investment banker where where you went to school is critical (there is one wrinkle to this, potentially if you are trying to teach privately, some might look at your background and the school might be a factor in someone choosing you, but then again, unless you are talking about Juilliard most parents of music students prob don’t know Mannes from CIM anyway:).</p>
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From what I have observed, Curtis seems to prefer its students on the younger side. Some of their students start even before getting their high school diploma. I am not at all sure they would accept someone looking to earn a second BM. The Artist Diploma program might be more of a possibility, but I would recommend having a detailed discussion with the admission director before making a serious run at it.</p>
<p>Thanks BassDad - that was my hunch.</p>