<p>I recently got auditions for both of these schools. Can somebody give me the pro's and con's for both of these? I don't know much about Mannes and is it a competitive school for strings?</p>
<p>CIM is in a totally different league than Mannes. The strings program at Mannes is “good” at best. Don’t get me wrong Mannes has some strong points but it is certainly not in strings. What they ARE becoming more and more known for is jazz and contemporary music. This is all relative to programs in the CIM league mind you. I don’t want to rag on Mannes too much ;)</p>
<p>CIM - excellent school & faculty, especially for strings, good housing plenty of practice rooms. Immediate surrounding area safe. Cleveland - very close by, however it is a city that is not on the rebound. Winters can be tough, especially a lack of sunshine for long stretches. But there is Severance Hall within walking distance and the ability to see the Cleveland Orchestra as often as you wish, plus the art museum is a short walk as well. Plenty to do& see in the surrounding E & W side suburbs. </p>
<p>Mannes - what we’ve learned is that the housing is far from the school & getting an apartment nearby is costly…expect to take a train everyday and practice rooms are not readily available. Can not speak about the staff for strings. Woodwinds are excellent. NYC is a blast for some and intimidating for others.</p>
<p>Hmmm I see. Thank you everyone!</p>
<p>Agree with violoncello and patientpoppa that CIM is an excellent school and is especially good for strings. Its strings faculty are as good as those anywhere (I think of its rivals in strings as NEC, Juilliard, Rice, Colburn and Curtis–each of those schools has some excellent instructors but Colburn and Curtis by virtue of their small size and selectivity would have an average student level of student higher than the others). The proximity to CIM of Case Western with its excellent and varied offerings is a plus for CIM, as well. The students at CIM seemed serious about their art and most seemed happy with their choice of school. The dorm situation at CIM is clearly much better than at Mannes–as well, if you tire of living in residence, Cleveland’s rental market is considerably more affordable than NYC’s.</p>
<p>Ultimately, in a performance degree, one’s teacher is one of the most important factors to consider. Mannes has some excellent teachers, several of whom also teach at places like Juilliard and Curtis. So if you get a studio assignment at Mannes with the right teacher for you and don’t get such an assignment at CIM, the decision would be more difficult.</p>
<p>Just to clarify though. Mannes is actually cheaper than CIM despite the housing fees.
Mannes total COA: ~$50,000/year
CIM total COA: ~$57,000/year</p>
<p>Unfortunately, CIM (along with many others) has become incredibly expensive in recent years. After four years tuition things start to add up when you consider the $28,000 difference. And believe me debt is the last thing you want as an undergrad classical music major.</p>
<p>My parents are willing to pay the fees for undergrad but I’m more concerned about which is a better school. I want a school that is serious but is a great and nurturing environment. I also want a school that has great teachers. (we will see whose studio I get into so…). For CIM my top choice was Mr. David Updegraff and at Mannes I chose Ms. Michelle Kim & Lucie Robert. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>violoncello’s post is unbelievable! I would not place any credibility in somebody who claims that Mannes is becoming more known in contemporary music and jazz. There is NO jazz program at Mannes, and it’s composition department is considered very old-school, with a strong emphasis on post war Modernism and deeply rooted in tonal and atonal theory.</p>
<p>Clearly violoncello is deeply misinformed. Both CIM and Mannes are top notch schools. If anything, Mannes is actually more selective statistically in the popular majors, and is famous for having one of the most rigorous theory and aural training curriculums in the whole country.</p>
<p>If it were me, I’d go to Mannes. Very small and talented close knit community, and New York City becomes my campus.</p>
<p>Lifeofsolitude, do you have plans yet for what you will do after the BM in violin performance. If you plan on graduate school, look at CIM and Mannes in terms of strength of program for placement in the top graduate programs. I do not know much regarding Mannes in this regard, but CIM is strong on this point of graduate school placement. Although not relevant to the issue of grad schools, CIM seems on a kick of acquiring superstar faculty right now. University Circle where CIM is located is an island of a nice artistic neighborhood surrounded by blight. CIM is tucked away next to the Case campus but does not really feel part of the campus. My son liked the dorms which although a bit stark were across the street from CIM main buildings.</p>
<p>
He may be conflating Mannes with New School and the New School for jazz. </p>
<p>As for Compdad’s comments about CIM, these are largely correct, except be aware that Paul Kantor is leaving the faculty and going to Rice. Jaime Laredo will be arriving from IU. To me that seems about one for one, in terms of superstar violin teachers at CIM. Also, University Circle is not especially an artistic neighborhood if, by “artistic” you mean bohemian. There are a number of large, pleasant institutions in addition to the Case campus, but not much in terms of a student neighborhood. Not many shops, no place to buy groceries, etc., unless you have a car.</p>
<p>Perhaps it is artistic in the sense that it is close to the Cleveland Institute of Art and a few nearby museums, along with Severance Hall, where the Cleveland Orchestra plays. The dorms are indeed pretty drab, though it makes great sense to live there as an incoming Freshman. I do think those who can, eventually get cars and move out farther. </p>
<p>I think at Mannes, only a very small amount of students choose to live in New School dorms in lower Manhattan. Most tend to find roommates and apartments on the Upper West Side high up in the 100+ streets. Washington Heights is very popular with students from Juilliard, MSM, Mannes, Columbia, etc. Still others commute from the boroughs.</p>
<p>Performing and visual arts district would have been a better choice of words. Sorry.</p>
<p>oldccuser, I am so sorry. That was a horrendous typo. I was referring to the New School program as a whole. Mannes itself certainly does not have jazz or modern music. </p>
<p>As to being misinformed, I would disagree. I am sorry but Mannes strings is just not at the same level as CIM, Curtis, Rice etc… I am sure that most would agree with me. As I stated “the school has its strong points.” </p>
<p>Violindad was right, Mannes’ program has a couple teachers that also teach at Juilliard and MSM and they are certainly wonderful. But the program as a whole is just not in the same league as is evident from the average calibre of the strings students and faculty. True, Paul Kantor is leaving CIM and going to Rice and that is a loss, but there is in amazing amount of depth to the program. </p>
<p>P.S. - Healthy debate is wonderful (thank you so much for correcting my typo about the jazz program), just know that most of us on here have only the best intentions. Maybe consider giving the benefit of the doubt first before accusations are made ;)</p>
<p>Ahhh I’m so confused now! It seems as though more people favor CIM over Mannes. I’m starting to like Mannes though because of the fact that it’s in the city. CIM is more tucked away but I have no idea what is going to be a better school for me. Mannes seems to have a great faculty for violin at least as does CIM. Firstly, I have to see where I get in but I’ve heard mixed messages from both inside and outside CC about Mannes. <em>sigh</em></p>
<p>@Compdad: I plan on getting a MM from a top conservatory/uni i.e. Curtis, Juilliard, Rice, USC, NEC. One of those schools probably. I’m just looking for the best education possible.</p>
<p>If you like seeing your conservatory’s concerts announced in the New York Times, then between CIM and Mannes, there is only one choice until of course CIM plays at Carnegie and then … . It may be that because the environment of each school is different, you will have a clear choice between those two once you audition and visit.</p>
<p>Lifeofsolitude,</p>
<p>Curtis offers graduate degrees only in its Opera program. They do not have an MM program for instrumentalists.</p>
<p>Darn. That sucks :p</p>
<p>David Updegraff’s students love him and do extremely well in grad school auditions. The importance of “connections” can not be overstated and those abound at CIM. Having the Cleveland Orchestra just down the road is a great perk and the dorm, which most kids live in for the first two years, is less than a minute’s walk from the conservatory door. I know that Mannes’ dorm ( and this impacts the meal plan) is a subway ride from the conservatory, so consider that when it comes to practicing and concert attendance too.
Cleveland is not the hub of the universe, by any means, and is not NYC, and CIM’s tuition keeps rising to absurd levels, but when living off campus, the cost of living is much lower than NYC.
Glassharmonica- a new grocery store has opened in Little Italy, within walking distance or a quick bus ride
( CIM students get free transit passes) from school. Wish I’d thought of opening the place!</p>
<p>
That’s great to know. One of my daughters spent 2 years in Cleveland. The second year she got a great deal on an apartment literally a block from campus-- but she and her roommie had no car and didn’t want to constantly pull favors from friends, so they ended up getting most of their “groceries” from a gas station. There is a co-op near campus but it’s expensive and does not have much stock. Having a car and a covered parking spot would be key to living in any kind of comfort, as Cleveland does not have a sidewalk shoveling ordinance, so foot travel can be difficult in snowy weather.</p>
<p>glassharmonica- the co-op closed, too expensive for most students. Apartments in Little Italy usually come with parking permits as do ones in the Coventry area,but most are not covered. Good market for snow brushes though!</p>