Many Mids are upset by changes

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
1

<p>Academy leaders are focused on 'moral, mental and physical development'</p>

<p><a href="http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/annearundel/bal-ar.changes02sep02,0,4482025.story%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/annearundel/bal-ar.changes02sep02,0,4482025.story&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Of all the changes taking hold over the past few weeks at the Naval Academy, the least popular, at least among midshipmen, might come as a surprise.</p>

<p>It wasn't the loss of weekends off-campus, cuts in extracurricular activities, or even the mandatory three meals a day on campus, where they've been served hamburger buns and gravy, frozen hoagies or one slice of pizza for dinner....

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I hope that this post doesn't start another flame war.</p>

2

<p>^^^^Not by me, that's for sure!!</p>

<p>The boy says the food situation is much better and came out of the nose dive the day after the article ran in the baltimore sun (in regard to the decrease in food). </p>

<p>He also says he's not happy about not being able to have the traditional Navy/Army, Navy/Air Force celebrations during those weeks. He says, and I don't know how accurate this is, that the Alumni are getting progressively more unhappy with the situation on the "yard", since they donate much money used for many of the extra things enjoyed by the mids.</p>

<p>While I understand they are at a SERVICE academy, I also understand that they are still kids and want to enjoy some of the "college-like" traditions that went on before.</p>

3

<p>Remember, at least for Firsties, the first 8 weeks of PE are now PRT driven, so that is one hour a week they get to work out. Mine is also getting some exercise walking to Moe's and back with rations for the room. </p>

<p>I haven't asked him about the workout situation for him, but I believe that he is running outside. He had wanted a bench and weights (a small one where the weights store in the bench) for his room, so maybe we will check that out during Firstie parent weekend. IDK, but I am certain that he will find a way. </p>

<p>Only 10 days until FPW! OMGoodness!</p>

4

<p>This is the one thing my plebe has complained of ... insufficient workout time.</p>

5

<p>^^^^with "landing zones" underway for the second week, this is about the one thing I have not heard...yet!</p>

6

<p>


</p>

<p>Seems to be a common complaint. They will adapt. There are presently 30 scheduled academic periods per week. Even carrying 18 hours and a few labs, one or two periods per day should be available to get a 45 minute or so weight workout and spread out the congestion. They can get up early and run.</p>

<p>That is why they do those uniform races plebe summer: class>rush to Bancroft>PE gear>good workout>2 min shower>uniform>class.</p>

7

<p>


</p>

<p>Ran into a classmate yesterday in the Exchange who is heavily involved in one of the larger regional alumni chapters. They had just had a social affair and the very hot, very heated, almost physical discussion was approximately 3:1 in favor of the new changes.</p>

8

<p>IMO 45 minutes of "free time" between classes is not feasible for a "meaningful" workout - quick run maybe but meaningful I doubt it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
They had just had a social affair and the very hot, very heated, almost physical discussion was approximately 3:1 in favor of the new changes.

[/quote]
That's funny as like nurseypoo the Alumni in our area (discussions during the gathering for the football game last Friday night) it is close to 90% that were not happy, their complaints were along the lines of the Mids - micromanaging people is not teaching leadership. Appalled at the food situation, and questioned why many of the EC's were eliminated. </p>

<p>I am sure it depends on the crowd that gathers, maybe age, maybe former service community, the atmosphere - Bar- where the discussion takes place; who knows but I am sure that there are Alumni who are "concerned" and those who are overjoyed. Just depends who you talk to.</p>

9

<p>Profmom, I wasn't stating that a complete workout could happen in 45 minutes. However, I doubt if the mean daily workout time per midshipman before the changes exceeded 45 minutes. The problem is crowded weight rooms. !st, 5th, 6th, and to a certain extent 4th periods allow additional time at one end or the other so the workout may extend beyond 45 minutes. They can still run early in the morning. And yes, they may have to adapt somewhat.</p>

<p>


Surely you are not serious. The most heated discussion of the past several years and consumption of alcohol will cause one to change positions-not for any alumni I have ever met.</p>

10

<p>USNA69- I prefaced that sentence with, "He says, and I don't know how accurate this is......" </p>

<p>That means I DO NOT have any first hand knowledge, just like I don't about the food, but I am repeating what my mid has experienced/stated.</p>

11

<p>nurseypoo, Wasn't doubting his word at all. There are unhappy alumni and happy alumni. It just so happens that I am one of the happy ones. No matter how much I would enjoy it, I haven't personally located any of the unhappy ones with which to discuss it with. Since the first home game is next weekend at 5pm, I will be roaming the parking lot at 10am. Maybe I can locate one.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
The problem is crowded weight rooms

[/quote]
</p>

<p>is this some new phenomena, did the Mids suddenly and unexpectedly multiply or grow in size? or is this just an unanticipated consequence of the changes in scheduling? hmmm sounds familiar...along the lines of a shortage of food or seats as an unanticipated consequence of the shift to mandatory meals...not an encouraging pattern to the decision making process in which changes have apparently been implemented.</p>

<p>For a leader, an Admiral or a CEO, one of the greatest benefits that you derive from talking to people about changes you feel are necessary comes in the form of the communication that occurs and the knowledge that is exchanged, prior to setting plans in motion.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
There are unhappy alumni and happy alumni. It just so happens that I am one of the happy ones. No matter how much I would enjoy it, I haven't personally located any of the unhappy ones with which to discuss it with. Since the first home game is next weekend at 5pm, I will be roaming the parking lot at 10am. Maybe I can locate one.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>perhaps you are looking in the wrong places.
Would suggest the leaders of the alumni association as a start. If I may suggest, ask about their feelings on the midshipmen presence,or lack thereof, at the recent Temple game. The discussions to which I refer occured prior-to. You be the judge.</p>

<p>I would also suggest you balance out your perspective by attending one "away" game if you can manage the time. I would welcome your RETROspective view. </p>

<p>Have no doubt there are many formers cheering some of the changes on the yard.<br>
On the other hand, many of the compaints I have heard have to do with things "off" the yard- football games for sure, sailing, and some select ECA's.</p>

<p>Again- appreciate the "vision." Not sure I am understanding the "path," but it is not my ship to run. On that note, I will return you to your search! Good luck!</p>

14

<p>I have to weigh in here...45 minutes for a workout just doesn't cut it. Yes, it can be done but it is almost a waste of time when you consider the time it takes to change (yes, uniform races help), the time to workout, and then the time to shower and change. More than most, I have done everything possible to work out and change including, biking to work, taking a shower via garden hose at a Marine Officer's house, climbing over the fence at base pool to use the shower, using a shower in decon station with cold water in the winter, all that crap. I've represented the Navy on many teams and working out for 45 minutes is just a maintenance workout. It certainly isn't ideal and before the changes, the Midn were much better able to budget their time and get decent workouts in. Now when everyone has the chance to workout, it is at the same time as everyone else. Add the intramurals, parades, mandatory meal formations (Friday evening, come on, someone can at least cut this one out...even the mandatory Friday evening study hour...can't a Midn who was highly recruited and sought after figure whether they can study Friday night...only a Nuke would think not), etc, there really isn't a heck of a lot of time to work out and that is one part of that mission (physically). Anyway, I'm gone...going to enjoy the Rutgers-Navy game with all of 50 Midn at the game. Wow...now that's impressive. Fifty Mids to cheer on THEIR team vs. a sold out stadium of Rutgers fans. Glad the Supe and Dant won't miss this game.</p>

15

<p>mvljog440, you're so right about the 45 minute workout. </p>

<p>I understand some mids now watch the cartoon channel and play video games during mando study hours...instead of working out.</p>

16

<p>Folks, we have a new Superintendent with a new vision and new regulations. He has definite ideas and priorities. Moral, mental, and physical development are three of them. Enabling graduates to be an instantly viable part of the fleet at war is another. Lastly, teamwork will become paramount. His plan is sound. He initiated it at the beginning of his tour at the start of a term. This is the military. Midshipmen are active duty Navy. They have two choices. Get on with the program wholeheartedly or resign. They will stay somewhat physically fit by participating in afternoon intramurals, while building teamwork with their fellow company mates. They will adapt. During evening mandatory study hours, they will eventually cease the “what’s in it for me” attitude, stop playing video games, and help their class and company mates. Someone recently quoted in the 900s for Supt’s and Dean’s Lists. This is nothing of which to be proud. Given the pedigree of the applicants, there is no reason that the majority of the Brigade cannot be on the Dean’s List. The correct goal is excellence, not competence. </p>

<p>Perhaps when entire companies are starting to excel, the Supt, as he has already stated, will loosen up a little and allow certain individuals to attend away football games. Maybe those who attend, on the Academy’s dollar, by the way, will realize it is a privilege and wear their uniforms, not change into civilian clothes, as I have noted at the last several away games which I have attended.</p>

<p>Parents, you need to quit being enablers, get on board, and start supporting your midshipmen and assisting them in working through this, to them only, tragedy. They will see actions such as this throughout their entire Naval career. Those in the Navy who are paid the big bucks to make the decisions, often make unpopular ones. Are you going to continue to hover over them and cry and whine when they get that first set of orders they don’ like, when they get that first below average fitness report because they have continued to fight the system beyond the Academy, when they get that first bad grade in flight school, when they get props instead of jets, on and on. Let go. A very valuable part of their training is to allow them to learn to stand on their own two feet. </p>

<p>You, who have never been in the military and obviously do not understand military leadership and support for the chain of command, are taking incomplete biased second-hand information from a teenager, and using it to totally trash a leader who is performing a course change which is long overdue. A course change which perhaps might be a bit of an oversteer in order to get back to the appropriate course a bit sooner, but nevertheless, an appropriate, and perfectly administered, course change. And we have no idea, and since he is a good leader, will never know, how much of this has been directed by his boss, his only boss, the CNO.</p>

<p>A perfect example of biased second hand information is the “Beat Army” thing at the reaffirmation ceremony. Perfectly logical not to shout it during this occasion and the Administration had no intentions of banning it elsewhere. Wait, hold it a second. I wonder how many meddling parents signed up for season tickets last week simply so they could defy in their incorrect perception of the Supt’s regulation and join in the “underground” rendition of “Beat Army” after every home game.</p>

<p>I have one last question. Midshipmen are active duty military. They receive a salary. They have a boss. Should your son or daughter, instead of being employed by Uncle Sam, be employed in some Fortune 500 company in their initial job, fresh out of college, and finding things untenable, would you go to an online forum and totally trash both the company and management?</p>

17

<p>And all the non-enabling, non-meddlesome parents and pals said ...
AMEN! </p>

<p>This is not summer camp or university in uniform. These young people are being paid to do a job the way their bosses believe it should be done. And as one of mine reminded often, "The boss is not always right, but she's always the boss."</p>

<p>Some of us can make Pinnochio look like a piker, growing and putting our noses where they sorely do not belong and are not helpful. I believe it's time for reform of our own. Let's become a positive force, and bellyaching is not merely benign, although here I suspect it has little more impact than self-therapy and delusion that anyone aside from the momentary writer and reader give a rat's behind.</p>

<p>Maybe most of all, wouldn't it be nice to get this entire forum refocused on trying to inform and assist wannabe Midshipman?</p>

<p>P.S. There. I feel better. How 'bout you? :confused:</p>

18

<p>USNA69-
thank you for you post- and in delivering the message in a respectful way-and you are correct- it's about excellence, not mere competence. </p>

<p>My issue from the start has been the food- for which the attention it received, IMO, was justified and deserved. After the conversation with my Mid last night, the food yesterday was "decent." I will take that to the bank and trust that the ship has freed itself from the shoals. </p>

<p>As for the rest- perhaps as you stated- a bit of an "oversteer" right now- will look for course corrections going forward. I have been of the opinion that they will happen as the mids earn the "respect" of the Supe. (I do miss seeing the mids at the games though- and USNA69, I am hoping you are right- perhaps if the 6 week marks demonstrate an improvement, maybe the spring lines will be eased a bit!)</p>

<p>WP- after post #4, I guess you are suggesting the "troops" do a 180 in #17. No problem. Just a clarification however- are you getting on this bus as well?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Maybe most of all, wouldn't it be nice to get this entire forum refocused on trying to inform and assist wannabe Midshipman?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I will have to differ with you on this one, as it has never lost that focus- perhaps some of the posters have.</p>

<p>I am one for asking the tough questions- getting the "truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." When both of our kids did their college "shopping," each had a list of questions to be asked- so that later, when it came down to the compare and contrasting, there was comparative data on which to make an informed choice.</p>

<p>Two particular questions come immediately to mind from that list:
1. What is the most pressing issue standing between the student body and the administration?
2. How has the administration responded?</p>

<p>While some of the recent posts have been peppered with less than desirable comments, the basic premise is that new candates need information far beyond the "how do I apply" in order to make an informed choice. You get the good and the bad- and each individual will determine for themselves how much of each they can tolerate. IMO, better to know what lies ahead to the extent possible when it comes down to making an informed decision.</p>

<p>I trust that the candidates that are seeking a SA will either be "turned off" by the reality of the information (as can be seen only through very individualized lenses) or assue themselves that "if this is the worst it gets, I can do that....."
On that note I have lots of faith in them.</p>

<p>Just as I have a ton of faith in "our" Mids.
I have never once doubted their ability to adapt.
I have doubted other things, but not them.
IMO, that is not enabling, but supporting. And I have never, once, stopped encouraging.</p>

<p>Enough. Today is day 2 of the "new food plan," and I am dying to know what's on the menu! :)</p>

19

<p>
[quote]
Someone recently quoted in the 900s for Supt’s and Dean’s Lists. This is nothing of which to be proud. Given the pedigree of the applicants, there is no reason that the majority of the Brigade cannot be on the Dean’s List.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That is a 22.5%, well above the percentage at most Universities - it also represents the average over the past 4 years. Also lets not forget this Academic Honors list requires non-academic grades to be included. If you get a C in Military Performance or Conduct and yet had say a 4.0 you are not included. So if it is pure academics with the mando study time for all upperclass (I have no complaint for Plebes) then do away with the non graded items. If you look at the past class profiles you will see the the above 700 SAT scores (where you would most expect the list to draw from - not to say below is not academically capable) those averages are 25% V and 30% Math. I really don't think expecting the majority of the Brigade to make the Honors list is realistic. That unless you subscribe to grade inflation. Also if you look at the profiles the Average SAT scores above 700 have dropped from 28V 34M to 23V and 30 Math.</p>

<p>If you ask every parent on here that regularly talks to their Mid - they are not trashing all of the rules, they are mostly questioning the mandatory study time on Friday nights - earned privilege of Exercising during study time being taken away and food. Not unreasonable concerns. </p>

<p>You want to lay total blame on the meddling parents for the Brigade not getting on board - most of us don't talk to our kids more than a very few moments during the week. Rules changes are the last being discussed - it is more like "did you get enough to eat, was it edible and then onto hows Classes, how is you sport going, is the squad jelling, what did you do over the weekend....."
I seriously doubt any of us are fueling some fire here.</p>

<p>As for the Beat Army - complete change for the press as that was not what was directed to the Brigade. It was directed for all instances. Just goes to show you that you can spin the story when you feel you have messed this one up.</p>

<p>Big difference as to first job - these are college kids and you can say all you want about that they are in the Navy Now - they are still College kids and deserve our support however we feel that support should be given - there are those who will subscribe to hands off there will be others that will continue to parent. </p>

<p>As for
[quote]
taking incomplete biased second-hand information from a teenager, and using it to totally trash a leader who is performing a course change which is long overdue.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I can read the news paper, you think that is biased too, I can read what the PR letter that the Supe sent out, I can draw my own conclusions that what he says and what he is doing do not add up. I can read what the Firsties, Second Class and a few Youngsters have posted here I am not taking my information from "teenagers." </p>

<p>Personally, I do believe this is a valid discussion as if I had an applicant at the moment I certainly would want him to be aware of all that is going on on the yard. An informed applicant makes a much better Plebe. If a new Plebe has viewed the Academy through rose colored glasses, Plebe summer has the potential for heartache.</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
most of us don't talk to our kids more than a very few moments during the week. Rules changes are the last being discussed - it is more like "did you get enough to eat, was it edible and then onto hows Classes, how is you sport going, is the squad jelling, what did you do over the weekend....."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Have you been eavesdropping on my phone calls???????? ;) </p>

<p>(in all honesty- i don't get past the "hows the food," "what did you have to eat," "do you need anything, " "how are classes going" and an occassional "how's lax?" )... I don't even get to the "whats up with this weekend...." (as if he would even tell me! :eek: )</p>

<p>I bet that exact conversation goes on in the majority of mid households all across the country! (wondering if they get more intel on the weekend thing... :( )</p>

<p>
[quote]
I seriously doubt any of us are fueling some fire here.

[/quote]

will second- without hesitation or reservation.</p>