Many Mids are upset by changes

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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<p>Bill, very interesting points, and I enjoyed reading them. One of your points particularly gets my attention. When you asked who is standing up for the mids... I hope the stripers, who are in leadership positions, and the rest of the firsties, who will be be officers here shortly, are standing up for themselves and their subordinates for situations they feel are unjust or unnecessary.</p>

<p>And I had to smile at your post about the Marines. The Navy has spent the last several years eliminating or merging enlisted ratings that we felt were unnecessary.</p>

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<p>rjr, actually, I think the three scenarios I posted, and the hundreds of other unimaginable leadership challenges we've all had to deal with, would be better prepared for with increased fleet training. Habitat for Humanity is great, but I bet if the youngsters spent more time on CVNs, DDGs, SSNs, etc., etc., they'd actually MEET Seaman Jones. But that's just my humble .02. CNO chose VADM Fowler to make these decisions (and I'd be willing to bet there were probably a few marching orders given), and if the CNO disagrees with the Supe's direction, somehow I think he'll probably let him know.</p>

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<p>Come on, grad/dad, isn't this just another way of saying "let the inmates run the prison"? I would hate to see where this country would be today if "happy" ranked in the top few criteria for critiquing a proposed order. Back to you, I cannot believe an alumni made this remark.</p>

<p>Extracurriculars and the Academy. We keep trying to compare ECs with the fleet. Midshipmen have much much less discretionary time than the average sailor. Perhaps, just perhaps, the new Supt feels that the Brigade has been allowed too much leeway in this area, that priorities are not in the keeping of optimum training, and that a course correction is necessary.</p>

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<p>USNA69: I am a grad and spent 28 years on active duty with many of them at sea. I commanded over 2300 personnel in that time so I think I have some ideas of leadership and involving the Chain of Command (officers and chiefs). I also know what taking responsibility really involves. I also know that the Commanding Officer, Executive Officer,Department Head, Division Officer or Chiefs never put themselves ahead of the personnel in their command. A good leader always seeks advice, makes the decision and takes responsilbility for the consequences. My direction to my officers and Chiefs was if it is a good decision you get credit. If it was a bad decision I get the credit. I am not sure this is the current case. Also, no comment about the senior officers and enlisted personnel doing push-ups on ESPN during the game? By the way, I have alot of good friends from you class and served with many a fine officer from '69. You are correct, "happy" was not a good word. How about "accept without complaining"?</p>

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<p>I read your bio the first time you posted it. No need to keep repeating it. I think you have hit the nail on the head here. This has been my entire point throughout this entire discussion. We're NOT sure. We DON'T know. And until we are, I will attempt to keep all negative comments, which I do have, to myself. And I would expect the same from all my fellow alumni. I have a sneaking suspicion that, at this point, it is more 'dad' than 'grad' talking.</p>

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<p>Bill, you may be on to something. If one carefully reads the news articles of the past few days, we have both the Commandant and the Food Services Officer stating that, except for the first Saturday that the Brigade returned, that there has been no food shortage. This has been verified by quotes from actual midshipmen. Are we to believe them or should we accept hearsay such as the following:</p>

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<p>To find well-meant quotes based on hearsay false is understandable, but to discount those of personnel who were actually there and in charge would be tantamount to calling them a liar.</p>

<p>2010, you question “portion control”. This is how us old goats did it and, until USNA became a yacht club a few years back, seemed to continue to do so. Upon the order of “seats”, the plebe at either end of the table would immediately commence pouring drinks for the upper classmen seated at their ends. When the containers reached half full, they would be passed to the center of the table and a plebe would “marry” them, pouring all the contents into a single container, pass it back to the plebe responsible for the senior unserved upper classman and then raise the empty over his head. A serving steward would replace it with a full container. This would continue with all the items on the menu, serving in the order of potential for seconds, to be the first in line for same. When servings ran out, and an item was desired by an upperclassman, a plebe was occasionally sent with a plate to another table searching for an unused portion. Since this detracted from his ability to eat, getting the empty containers in the air early was paramount. The humor in all of this was the occasional surly lazy steward who would immediately announce “no more” to whatever container that was raised. This immediately called for the emptying and raising of the water pitcher just to hear him announce “no more water”. Classes were dismissed by bells in order of classes, with the plebes being allowed the last five minutes or so, usually alone. Heaven was when the last departing Youngster allowed carry on (one of their few rates). Thus, all leftovers were quickly scarfed down. In my time, the only ice cream that made it to the plebes was coffee. Consequently, within the year, one became truly sick of it, thus perpetuating the ability for future plebes to “enjoy” their coffee ice cream. </p>

<p>Managing the table while simultaneously being rated was an important part of a plebe’s education. The normally four plebes at the table would rotate on a daily or meal basis through each of the four seats. I applaud that this existing tradition is being incorporated into the economics of not having to over serve the tables, thus causing unnecessary waste. I am actually kind of sad that it seemed to have passed into history and Captain Klein has to take the blame for no one being aware of it.</p>

<p>Is it possible, just maybe, that Capt Klein, in totally unjustifiable deference to the Brigade, used the term “probably” in her “acceptance of responsibility” because she knew that the midshipmen actually knew this procedure but were so bent on finding fault in the mandatory meals, that they stormed out, whining, crying, and spreading unfounded rumors, rather than exercise the in-place system? I think we either have to accept something along these lines or call both a Navy Lcdr and Captain liars. Your choice.</p>

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<p>Sounds like the Klein ackowledged that in fact there was a problem, accepted responsibility, and is taking steps to fix it. I don't think anything else is needed in this particular issue.</p>

<p>My son made no mention of food quanitity problems. I asked and he said it was now a non-issue.</p>

<p>Still sending food etc.. in the care packages because he loves to get it from home! He was too busy talking about his actual classes (mech eng) to elaborate on much else...He sounds great!!!I am so proud!!</p>

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<p>I have read very enlightening posts about the company forming the "family" for midshipmen, and also about the various ways in which ECs such as HFH can broaden a young person's perspectives about people who have many fewer advantages than many mids have had growing up.</p>

<p>Here's my question: is there any history of using a fraction of "company" time to provide service to the community, ala HFH? I have read of many instances of Fleet units helping out in diverse ways. Just wondering if this type of thing has happened in the past, or if it might not be a way to accomplish a lot of good for the mids and the community.</p>

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<p>Yes, there are company/squad "outings" that provide community service. These are wholly dependent on each company/squad. One of the most difficult part of organizing these though is getting transportation for an "official" work party and a time when they can all be available. It does happen, but I think that the majority of community service is done in smaller groups, 1-4 Mids at a time.</p>

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<p>'74;

[quote]
would be better prepared for with increased fleet training. Habitat for Humanity is great, but I bet if the youngsters spent more time on CVNs, DDGs, SSNs, etc., etc., they'd actually MEET Seaman Jones

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<p>no question more Fleet training would benefit them, but that's not in the current program, and you don't get more Fleet training by cutting ECs that might have given them similar opportunities. Change the current 4 year program into something else (5 years?) and maybe you have that ability. And maybe meeting Seaman Jones would be good and through that contact they would develop the perspective necessary to deal with the scenarios you described. I do think they would benefit more from a combination of training and exposure to real life experiences in and out of the Navy, that has to be better than just being thrown into the mix while we hope some of the reality of life that young enlisted men and women face rubs off.</p>

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<p>rjr, another option may be to increase the brigade's interaction with the enlisted sailors actually assigned to USNA. But in the end, there are hundreds of ways to skin a cat. Thanks for you insight and feedback. Informative and appreciated. It's refreshing to see that we can have intelligent dialogue, and even disagree, but still remain civil.</p>

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<p>Are we forgetting summer cruises, protrimid, YPs, gate watch? There already is brigade interaction with enlisted sailors including the members of the brigade who are prior sailors/marines themselves. Let's not forget that USNA is the undergraduate college of the Navy and it's reputation for academic excellence was very important for most candidates when considering institutions of higher education.</p>

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<p>
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Let's not forget that USNA is the undergraduate college of the Navy and it's reputation for academic excellence was very important for most candidates when considering institutions of higher education.

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<p>That is very true. The academics and leadership training sealed the deal for my Mid as did it for many of his friends and roommates. He could have done ROTC or even OCS but he chose USNA as an academic option based on the quality of the academics.</p>

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USNA became a yacht club a few years back…</p>

<p>new Supt is desirous that the Brigade raises the bar here before they attempt to go forth and save the rest of the world or follow JPJ in their “liberal” education.</p>

<p>talk to countless midshipmen annually. I am not disappointed in what I see.</p>

<p>were so bent on finding fault in the mandatory meals, that they stormed out, whining, crying, and spreading unfounded rumors, rather than exercise the in-place system?</p>

<p>I was not a huge fan of the management style of the previous administration and am happy to see, what appears to be his exact opposite, replace him…

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<p>Bottom Line Folks USNA69 did not like Admiral Rempt. It is and was perfectly acceptable (to him) that he can and will speak in distain for the former Superintendent but chastises the rest of us for having an opinion on the current administration. Everything comes back to * In my time…* </p>

<p>Memory always tells us that our time was the best of times, it could have possibly been the worst of times and memory has conveniently “forgotten” that aspect of being a Mid. Maybe you just were so tuned into being a Mid that problems on the yard, in the Brigade, he**, the world may not have registered with you. In your time there were no women at USNA did that make it right? Your time evolved into today’s time…very different generations, very different ways for achieving the same or better results. So you want to turn the clock back to 1969…. Women pack your bags!</p>

<p>You talk to Midshipmen annually, you are not disappointed - then how can you come on here and slam today’s Mids…continually blaming them for “today’s problems” in the Brigade (What ever you think those problems are since the Supe did not indicate that there were any.) Blaming them, surmising that they “stormed out, whining, crying, and spreading unfounded rumors, rather than exercise the in-place system?” How can you possible draw that conclusion and state it almost like fact here. IMO that screams of total disrespect for the Brigade.</p>

<p>The whole liberal education argument sounds like “I was an Engineer, you need to be and Engineer” It does not matter. A liberal Education will give each midshipman the tools to think through a problem. Heck – Undergraduate degrees in engineering are not even a requirement for graduate work in engineering. You do not need to be an “educated engineer” to do technical work. I am an Engineer, I work in an engineering field, many in my office are field engineers who do not have engineering degrees - The best engineer that I have has a degree in economics - it does not matter. </p>

<p>“This is how us old goats did it” Time for the old goat to let it go…</p>

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<p>
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PS: With this post, I think I am through casting barbs about the present situation. However, the multiple possible ways to dissect Capt Klein’s statements may require an observation, especially since I have a bottle of merlot at stake. How does one ship a bottle of wine?

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<p>USNA69-</p>

<p>thank you for your post....</p>

<p>would like to clarify one point... re: "portion control."
I was specifically referring to the lunch that the Supe attended to "observe" what was going on, where 1/2 of the tables in Dalgren were not served food. They were ordered to "remain seated".... 25 minutes elapsed before pasta was served.<br>
Sadly, "fact," not rumor.
My tongue-in-cheek remark re: "portion control" was in response to "empty plates."</p>

<p>I am posting a letter sent to parents on behalf of the Commandant.<br>
I believe Candidate mom posted it previously, but it seems have gone unnoticed.</p>

<p>As far as I am concerned, it contains the long awaited acceptance of responsiblity. </p>

<p>As for "off with her head," that is certainly not what I have been looking for. A simple, and straightforward acknowledgement of responsiblity, accountability, and corrective action could have resolved this from the get-go and saved tons of embarrassment for all. </p>

<p>I am posting excerpts of the letter below so you can draw your own conclusions. </p>

<p>My final hope (aside from collecting my bottle of merlot from USNA69.... :) )
is that the same message is delivered to the Brigade. It is my opinion it is warrented.</p>

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<p>Dear Parents,</p>

<p>I wanted to take this opportunity to respond to many of you who have voiced concerns about our food service, and provide you with facts to help bring you up to date on our actions..........</p>

<p>[non-related items removed]</p>

<p>.....One of our initial priorities was to reinstitute the practice of midshipmen regularly eating meals together in King Hall. Our focus is better aligning the Naval Academy with the Fleet, where our midshipmen
will soon serve as leaders. Food service and quality is important in the Navy and Marine Corps. Eating together on messdecks, wardrooms and in ready rooms helps officers, Sailors and Marines develop and maintain the relationships and unit cohesiveness so important to units in the Fleet.</p>

<p>Midshipmen had been eating eight meals together per week, and in mid-August, we increased that requirement to three meals per day, Sunday
evening through Friday noon- 15 meals per week - for the entire Brigade.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, we could have better anticipated the requirement for increased meal quantities which left some midshipmen with inadequate amounts of food. This was unacceptable and we made it a priority to ensure this food distribution issue was quickly resolved.</p>

<p>To address these issues, we have been obtaining instant feedback from midshipmen regarding the quality of food and using their suggestions to
improve our level of service. We have encouraged midshipmen - particularly first class midshipmen as leaders - to report problems to our Food Service Team and to their chain of command so corrective action can be taken immediately.</p>

<p>Based on feedback and initiatives, we have taken the following corrective actions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>We have significantly increased rations to meet demand to include additional reserve trays of food standing by for distribution.</p></li>
<li><p>We have reviewed staffing and product support to ensure quality or both food and service. </p></li>
<li><p>We have increased the presence of management staff in our dining facilities during meals to answer any questions/concerns midshipmen may have during meals. </p></li>
<li><p>Finally, we are demanding Positive, Proactive, and Intrusive Leadership at all levels, critiquing each meal to ensure quality and quantity. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>On a related note, we've also developed a new menu which reflects our goal of providing midshipmen with the proper diet to support both academic and athletic goals and to educate and expose midshipmen to foods that are part of a healthy, well-balanced lifestyle.</p>

<p>Food service and quality is important in the Navy and Marine Corps, and the Superintendent and I are both committed to ensuring that the Brigade receives the best food service available. </p>

<p>I hope this information has helped clarify the points some or you have thoughtfully brought to our attention. I appreciate your support and encouragement.</p>

<p>Thank you,</p>

<p>Captain Margaret D. Klein
United States Navy
Commandant of Midshipmen

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<p>OK USNA69- now you are free to make good!! :)</p>

<p>[bill0510.... thanks for your posts..... while I miss the "return to capastrano" dialogues, these are SO MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!! :) ]</p>

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<p>No, usna09mom, not forgetting those. However, when the mids stand gate watch, from what I see, the mids talk to each other and rarely interact with the Sailors standing watch. Ditto on YPs. Can't say how the summer training goes for every ship, but it largely depends on the Commanding Officer. Some mids get a great experience, sleeping in junior enlisted berthing, eating on the mess decks, getting a junior enlisted running mate. Some mids are left to their own devices to keep themselves occuppied and entertained. Some COs treat their mids like Distinguished Visitors, as opposed to JOs-in-training, so as not to incur the wrath of those on high, which obviously leads to a pointless experience for the mid. So the most real face time many of the mids get with enlisted sailors is a few weeks during the summer. Not, in my opinion, quite enough.</p>

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<p>Could someone please enlighten me? When did the mids start standing gate guard? Was it the same time that the Marines were pulled off JPJ's crypt? Somehow standing gate quard does not quite seem appropriate.</p>

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<p>They stand a form of gate guard that is intended to serve as a form of shore patrol. The active duty sailors are actually standing gate guard, i.e. providing gate security, but the midshipmen are supposed to be policing their own, ensuring that mids who go out are in appropriate liberty attire, and that mids who return are not excessively inebriated.</p>

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<p>I've listened to some entertaining stories about gate watch/guard. Seems the most problematic are some of the 'old farts' who attempt to 'bend the rules,' and then there was that woman walking her cat on a leash...;)</p>

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<p>New Command Master Chief Says Enlisted Play Critical Role in Developing Junior Officers</p>

<p>"...According to Banks, a tour at the Naval Academy is unique for enlisted personnel, in that the Sailors' and Marines' mission is to develop those who will one day lead them. She said the junior Sailors assigned to YP (Yard Patrol craft) operations play a vital role in introducing Midshipmen to the realities of the afloat Navy.</p>

<p>''This billet is unique for any Sailor here, especially since so many of them work outside of their ratings. Everything they do here is to help develop these young men and women,'' said Banks, a former Culinary Specialist. ''For them, it's a chance to lead and develop the future officers of our Navy and Marine Corps.''</p>

<h2>Banks said she was impressed by the caliber of senior enlisted leadership she saw when she reported aboard. According to Banks, the Chief's Mess at the Annapolis Area Complex is critical in showing future officers the importance of the junior officer⁄senior enlisted relationship. She said the Chief Petty Officers and Gunnery Sergeants have been enthusiastic in welcoming her and working with her to improve quality of life and quality of service programs."</h2>

<p>It's ironic that Master Chief Banks is a former Culinary Specialist.</p>

<p>To read the entire article:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.dcmilitary.com/stories/090607/trident_28053.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dcmilitary.com/stories/090607/trident_28053.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Why is that ironic? The role of the Command Master Chief is to represent the command's enlisted force and advocate on their behalf to the commanding officer. Master Chief Banks isn't the Brigade's Command Master Chief, per se. That's why the Brigade has Senior Enlisted Leaders.</p>