Many options to consider - NROTC, USNA (Prep) and USMMA

Colleges and Universities A-Z Service Academy Parents
1

<p>First, I'd like to say what a wealth of information I've received on this site!</p>

<p>My son is in the process of applying to USNA. In addition, he's already been accepted at The Citadel and Norwich University and is awaiting word on a NROTC scholarship.</p>

<p>He had his first 2 of 3 nomination interviews with the 3rd this Sunday. We just found out that he did not get the nomination from the first senator as he had only one slot to fill. Yesterday we received a call from our other senator, again apologizing that he did not get the nomination to USNA but that they have nominated him to USMMA. Although very focused on USNA and the Naval route, he is interested in USMMA but we really haven't researched it at this point.</p>

<p>He also just found out fron his BGO that he has been recommended for the Naval Academy Foundation Prep Program. After reading many of our previous discussions on NAPS and the Foundation Prep program, we are very excited for this opportunity and this is my son'ts first choice option if he is awarded the opportunity.</p>

<p>At this point, I'd really appreciate any comments or thoughts on my son's path at the moment. His ultimate goal is to fly; however, serving as an officer in the Navy is the main goal.</p>

2

<p>Congratulations on your son's accomplishments! You have much to be proud about :) Absolutely your son should check out USMMA more closely. There are others on this board who I know have been in the same position and will have much to say about that route. If your son is offered a Foundation opportunity, he may find as many others have, that the additional year before entering USNA is of great value. Because I live in the Annapolis area, I have the opportunity to interact with many mids -- including those who went to NAPS, Foundation schools or had one or more years of civilian college. Most agree that having a year away from home and adjusting to living away from friends and family made the transition to USNA easier. Its no guarentee of success, of course. (Unfortunately, this year a several NAPS students dropped out during Plebe summer and this first semester.) Using the Foundation year to focus on mastering the courses that are often difficult for Plebes, such as calculus and chemistry, will make the first year at USNA smoother or, if he validates a number of classes, will open up additional opportunities for him as an upperclassman. If USNA is the goal there really is no downside to Foundation.</p>

3

<p>Ballstamom - Hang on to your wagon wheels! They are getting ready to spin outta control! In other words, you're in for a wild ride.... :) Our son's path last year was somewhat similar to your son's. The Citadel, recommended for Naps/Foundation for USNA except he did receive some nominations. The story changes there as he ended up as an alternate candidate to U.S. Merchant Marine Academy for two weeks before he was given an appointment there in mid April. </p>

<p>I caution you that alot can happen right up to I-day. The later it got, the more our son leaned towards The Citadel as he just wanted to have some plan set for his future. While I was hanging onto the idea of NAPS, my husband was pulling for USMMA. So we had three different goals going at the same time. Alot of sleepless nights! This kid had one goal and that was to become a Naval Officer. That never changed. He wanted any of the three maritime academies but USMMA was his first choice. Tell your son to stay motivated and not to let it get to him too much. You too! If you have any questions about USMMA, let me know. I'll try to help. Keep in mind, that at USMMA, he can go into any branch of service he wants upon graduation. Post questions in the USMMA thread as well. There are a few parents and Alumni who can help. Its an awesome place I can tell you. Especially with Sea Year. Best of luck to you & your son!! Keep us informed! We care here!</p>

4

<p>I was in a very simliar postion this time last year. I had the nominations (two) to USNA, one to West Point, and three to USMMA. My dreams and heart was set on USNA. Come December, I had an early appointment to Kings Point, and an Appointment to West Point, but I still had not heard from Navy. Come early Feburary, I found out that I was accepted into the Foundation program and set to go to NMMI. I accepted and had everything ready to go. But something still just didn't feel right, so I visted King's Point. I loved it, the campus, the program and most importantly the options. My goal is to fly for the Navy........little know fact, is that USMMA gets more filght spots then normally get filled. But in short I called the foundation and told them I was going to USMMA. The foundation is a great way to get to Navy, but make sure its what you want. I look back on it, and I would have been miserable just sitting waiting to get to USNA. But if Navy is really what your son want, guide him in the right direction, it is confusing as hell when you have good options. If you have any questions about USMMA let me know, also I can but you into contact with people to talk about Navy Flight out of Kings Point,</p>

5

<p>Congratulations, the fact that you have raised a son who wants to serve his country is something about which to be very proud.</p>

<p>My son had it in his mind from a very early age that he wanted to go the the Naval Academy. He had birthday parties at Navy football games, went to wrestling camps there and participated in Summer Seminar. But it was suggested that he visit Kings Point and in March of his junior year in HS he went up to spend the night and fell in love with the place.</p>

<p>He went up there again the summer between his junior and senior year after he had participated in Summer Seminar and it was locked on as his first choice. And that is where he is now and extremely happy. (or as happy as a plebe can be anywhere)</p>

<p>The options to serve are extraordinary and my son has found the Midshipmen a great group of men and women.</p>

<p>Also, if your son is an athlete, but hasn't been recruited as an athlete by Navy, KP is an NCAA Division III program where the opportunities to participate are very good. </p>

<p>So, I would recommend a visit to Kings Point and spending some time talking to KP alums. It really is an amazing place.</p>

<p>Finally, a word of caution. Kings Point is academically equal to or perhaps more challenging than any of the other Academies. This is because the standards are just as high and four years of academics are fit into three calendar years,(so they can go to sea for a year) along with all the Regimental stuff you would have to do at USNA such as learing rates and chopping, etc.</p>

<p>So, carefully evaulate why the Naval Academy is suggesting your son attend NAPS. My son took all AP classes his junior and senior years, and while none of them count as credit at KP they prepared him very well. Two years of AP caculus and two years of AP physics have served him well up there. </p>

<p>You can get a ton of help with academics, but if a stronger foundation is needed, a year at prep school might be the difference between success and failure at either KP or USNA.</p>

<p>Just some things to think about.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

6

<p>Ballstamom: first and formost, WELCOME and congratulations to your son! What great opportunities lie before him!</p>

<p>Like the other posts, our son recieved direct appointments to USMA and USMMA, and the offer of the foundation program for USNA, with noms for each. Admission to 2 out of 2 civilian schools with handsome scholarship offers. Choices are tough.</p>

<p>He was able to do an overnight visit to each program, and that was a tremendous help- he narrowed his choices down to 2.</p>

<p>No sleep for 2 weeks. What to do.</p>

<p>We visited the final 2 in back-to-back weekends. Thank goodness it is not a leased vehicle.</p>

<p>We asked him to work backwards....."where do you see yourself in 5 years," and how best to get there. </p>

<p>He wants to study naval architecture. Choice just got easier; not too many boats up on the Hudson.</p>

<p>Final Answer: Foundation program and USNA. </p>

<p>1 year later and 1st trimester of the foundation year completed: no looking back, and no regrets. It was the best decision for him.</p>

<p>Choices are tough, but how lucky your son gets to have them. There are lots of ways to become a Navy pilot, and it seems they are all on his radar. He can't go wrong with any of them- all you can do is make sure he has all the information, including visits, upon which to make an informed choice. (I can't say enough about the importance of overnight visits- they were the litmus test in our case) Having done that, just hope he lands where he will be happy.</p>

<p>Choose well young grasshopper!</p>

7

<p>Ballstamom - your son sounds a lot like my brother. He tried to get into West Point, but is now at Norwich (and loves it). I would HIGHLY suggest that if he was leaning towards the Citadel, you go and visit. My mom went with him and he did an overnight, and they were both turned off by what they saw - hate to say it, but there still seemed to be some racial tension that was evident on campus, etc, and being raised in the Midwest he didn't want to settle for that. </p>

<p>He's now at Norwich on Army ROTC and loves it. It is very secluded, which he hated as a rook, but he gets to Burlington regularly now that some of his classmates have cars.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
He wants to study naval architecture. Choice just got easier; not too many boats up on the Hudson.</p>

<p>Final Answer: Foundation program and USNA.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Interesting that your child chose USNA for Naval Architecture. I see that he had already knocked KP out of the running, but I must say there is probably no better place in the country to get a naval architecture background than Kings Point. (There is a small school in NY, can't remember the name, that is well known for Naval Arch. though) I am sure he made a good decision for himself; but, he won't be doing naval architecture for a while after graduating from USNA. If he had chosen KP he could be drawing the day he graduates. </p>

<p>Just a thought for those considering naval architecture as a career.</p>

9

<p>kp2001: actually, he considered USMMA closely, however in speaking to the professors when he stayed at Kings Point he was informed they do not have a naval arch program- they have courses that "come close" but they do not offer a NA major. The head of the department told us they are not set up for a NA major lacking the right facilities, specifically a towing tank, and despite the fact they are located close to Webb, they do not share the NA facilities. We were told that to enter the field, graduate study in NA would be necessary (as is the case from any of the programs we looked at).</p>

<p>He did his homework thoroughly I assure you....and I would venture to say more so then some, starting with SNAME (Society for NA and Marine Engineers) where he got a list not only of contacts in the industry, but of all the schools in the USA that offer NA programs....it is a short list. The list got even shorter as he also wanted to continue with lacrosse. </p>

<p>Over the fall of junior year he spoke to several engineers in the NA industry-in 3 states- (made easy by attending one of the SNAME conferences)... they recommended 3 programs: WEbb, USNA and U-Mich, in that order. We also learned that Stevens Institute of Technology in NJ just opened their graduate NA program to undergraduates starting in 2005, so he added that to the list as they also offered a solid D-3 lax program. USMMA and SUNY-Maritime were also of strong consideration, and he applied to both.</p>

<p>We visited all of them, and several of them several times. He was allowed 5 official visits through the NCAA and he took advantage of those. The rest we did as unofficial visits. He met with professors, students, and coaches. He attended classes. He met with people in the industry. He visited the Navy vets in the VA hospital. He met some outstanding people who offered great programs. He would have been happy at any of them. </p>

<p>We discovered that NA is a small community, and just about everyone knows everyone else and everyone knows enough about each other's program that they were able to compare and contrast what made their particular program unique. The Webb professor had just come from a teaching post at USNA (and dare I say steered him back to USNA based on athletic talent)....the head of the NA program at Stevens not only knew everyone at all of the other programs, but had worked with many of them at one time or another on various projects...the prof at USMMA had served in the Navy himself and spent time at both USNA and U-Mich. U-Mich benchmarked their program against USNA specifically (the film they show actually uses footage from the USNA facilities), and to a lesser degree, Webb. USMMA and SUNY Maritime were added to the list, as was West Point- he was recruited heavily there, and had a fantastic stay with the cadets- despite not having a NA program, it remained one of his top choices till the end. We were surprised to see what a good program SUNY Maritime offered as well- and a beautiful facility, as was USMMA.</p>

<p>We were sent on some wild goose chases too by the guidance department- Maine Maritime and Mass Maritime, only to find neither offered a NA program in contast to what we had been advised. U of Louisianna~ no lax, and I just hope the school survived.</p>

<p>Please understand, these are all A-1 programs- every one of them- some were just better "fits" than others, for different reasons. </p>

<p>Webb: outstanding program- probably top in the country- only 25 freshman admitted each year- right in our backyard - 100 kids in the school total- absolutely no sports of any kind- our kid has been playing 3 sports since he was a pee-wee - he would go nuts.</p>

<p>U-Mich: great school, great program, club-lax, huge, huge school. His high school = 156 graduates..... U-Mich: 25,000 undergrads, 6,000+ freshmen, a 20-minute bus ride to get from one end of campus to the other....the NA building was at one extreme end of campus, the testing facilities at the other extreme - just too big for a comfortable fit.</p>

<p>USMMA: great school, great location, good D-3 lax, liked Coach Gill a lot- but wanted a NA major. As for drawing the day he graduates: without a major, might not be possible based on what he was advised at SNAME. When all things were considered, the decisive point was the lack of major.</p>

<p>USNA: great NA program, great stay, D-1 lacrosse, right size, right structure (liked the military thing), liked the coaches, liked the mids he stayed with ....seemed to be the right "fit" from every angle. Might take him a bit longer to get to the drawing table, but he figured the water would be a great lab upon which to learn - and who knows, maybe Stevens later on as grad student in the discipline. Its a long road ahead. </p>

<p>Anyway, the moral of the story is to do your homework and research thoroughly- consider all of your options- hopefully you get some- he was lucky, lucky, lucky- he had 5 excellent choices, any one of which would have thrilled his parents - and we do sleep a little better at night knowing we gave him as much information as we possibly could so that he could make his decision. For him, the USNA program was worth the extra year of foundation. </p>

<p>So yes, those seeking NA as a career- visit these programs- any one of them will serve you well- just find the one that fits you best!</p>

10

<p>Your son certainly did some work before deciding. I hope you didn't think I thought your son made the "wrong" choice. </p>

<p>You are correct in that KP does not have a NA degree (btw, i like NA as you put it better than having to type out Naval Architecture every time). I was merely pointing out that if a goal was to get into the NA field as quickly as possible KP would have been a good fit as he could have gone straight into a NA company upon graduation or even gone straight to graduate school.</p>

<p>At USNA he may want to look into their program where they go straight to grad school upon graduation. I'm not sure how it works, I just know they have a program that allows it. May be restricted to certain types of grad schooling and I believe you need to be near the top of the class to get it, but may be an option for him.</p>

11

<p>kp2001: NO, NOT AT ALL!!!! </p>

<p>Believe me, we asked him all the same questions- why this, why not that- trying to get into his head as to his reasoning- and we challenged him every step of the way to make sure he knew what he was letting himself in for! </p>

<p>In all fairness- he had a great stay at USMMA- but it is just a few towns away from where we live, and I can't help but feel that was also "factored" into his decision as it was perhaps a little "too close" and he wanted to be "away." So this year he is "away" and has admitted to at least one bout of homesickness- though I don't know if it was really home he was missing or girls :/ (he is in a female-free zone 5+ miles from the nearest pizza shop!) But the good news is that they offer a boat-building class- so guess what he is doing as we speak! (every time I ask him how it is coming along, he tells me he is still drilling holes- I have visions of swiss cheese- hope the thing floats when all is said and done!)</p>

<p>As for NA- I really hope he sticks with it- he has expressed an unwavering interest for several years now- but I hear it is a very tough discipline- one can only hope for the best! </p>

<p>I posted as much as I did only as it is not a common major, nor one well advertised- our guidance department had little to offer us, so he really had to research and ferrit out progams on his own- there was no other choice - only to find but a handful of schools that even offer a program on the undergraduate level! Then factor in lacrosse! </p>

<p>He lucked out in that several of our neighbors work in the industry, and they were thrilled with his interest. They were all to happy to point him in the right direction, put him in contact with SNAME, and took him to one of the meetings where he was introduced to some great people in the field. </p>

<p>To restate, any one of the programs he looked at would have been A+ in our book! In the end, he had 5 very good programs to which he applied, and ultimately, gained acceptance to. </p>

<p>Besides the major, and in his case the lacrosse, so many other things have to fit as well, and you never know what will turn a kid "on" or "off" to a program/school/area/ etc. All the more reason to research them out, visit (more than once to the final choices if you can) and do that overnight stay.....he knew immediately what ones were "in." Well, well worth the time/effort/money, and as far as I am concerned, a "must do"! </p>

<p>As for grad school, have no doubts he will attend at one point or another- if not immediately after USNA, then at some point- sometimes you need a breather between the two (our daughter, who graduates this year with a double major in physics and engineering, is taking a year off before law school- just needs that break!)....so as long as it is on his radar screen that is ok for now!</p>

12

<p>I can't see worrying about a specific engineering major in an undergraduate program! That is what graduate school is for. What is important is getting good grades in all the core courses and by then you should have an idea of your general interests to select your major and electives.</p>

<p>If you cloud the undergraduate years with intense specifics of a discrete major, you risk short changing your mechanical, electrical, architectural, or other basic skill set which must be solid for true success in an advanced graduate major.</p>

<p>Naval architecture for example, requires keen foundations in mechanical engineering cores such as, heat transfer, fluid flow, CAD & CAM, material properties, calculus, physics, chemistry, combustion, power and drive systems...etc, etc, etc. Plenty to get ready for graduate school.</p>

<p>Ballstamom - Your son's choices are wonderful....Congratulations. Don't jump to quickly...lots of time to investigate choices and feelings thoroughly. Best of Luck!</p>

13

<p>One thing I alluded to in my last post, but want to be more clear on is Div. III vs Div. I sports. </p>

<p>All other things being equal, which they may not be, being a starter at a small school is a lot more fun that riding the bench at a big school.</p>

<p>I played Div. II football in college and started for three years, one of my best friends, who is an equal or a little bit better athlete than I am, played football at Michigan and was a third team linebacker and occassionally got to play special teams.</p>

<p>He loves having been a Michigan football player and earning a letter, but laments not getting to play more. He says, I probably played more downs in one quarter than he played in four years at Michigan.</p>

<p>On the other hand, he played in front of more people on one play than I did at four years at Puget Sound. (Yes, I am so old it was a Div. II school back then)</p>

<p>Just something to think about. I know LAX is different than football and more players get time, but USNA is recruiting some of the best LAX players in the country to compete for a national championship. If your son is at that level great, but make sure expectations are in line with reality.</p>

14

<p>Dad2B'2010:</p>

<p>Some kids know what they want, some don't. Some think they do and then change their minds. It would seem prudent to select a program that offers you studies in your area of interest, if you know it, as well as other areas in case you have a change of heart....it can only help later on in the continuum of education. There are many facets of study that will be required for NA- including those you listed- and some undergraduate programs that do a better job at it then others. And when it comes time to selecting undergraduate electives, it would be nice to have a choice in one's area of interest as opposed to a program where none are offered at all. Being too narrow in majors offered, or so broad that none stand out as exceptional, is not good either. The key is balance, and choice.</p>

<p>As for worrying, your words not mine. I have faith, and hope, and lots and lots of trust.</p>

15

<p>Ah..."Some kids know what they want"
But...do they know what is out there and what's the best way to get what they "think" they want. Ask (off the record) professors who are involved with 5-year engineering masters degrees. Most will immediately tell (advise, steer, guide...whatever) you to worry about getting a good core and good grades (not necessarily at a top 20 enigineering school or Ivy League college) instead of going for a 5-year masters. You just don't get as clean and complete of a foundation AND a handle on a specialty in 5-years. Of course you will get a masters degree, and to some, that is the most important. But if your really concerned with how you are going to use that specialty....your probably better off studying hard core in the foundations of the specialty you "think" (as a high school senior) you want. The other advantage to forgetting your masters in the first 4-years of college, is that it gives you the opportunity to try more things you might enjoy even more.</p>

<p>I'm with you on the worrying...No such thing here.</p>

16

<p>You lost me here Dad- when did a 5 year masters come into the discussion? </p>

<p>Foundation+4years USNA+5 years service (if not more) +2 years graduate study sounds like a minimum 12 year plan to me!</p>

<p>All of the programs we looked at- at least in the schools mentioned- are 4 year programs, not 5 year combo's. And all have outstanding engineering cores. Every one of them. What we were advised, if your read back to my earlier post, is that no matter WHICH program you attend, graduate school is a given....as it is in almost ANY field these days, in my opinion. </p>

<p>And if you look at an even later post, having a break between undergrad-and grad programs- is well worth the hands-on-experience gained, and often desired, by graduate programs. </p>

<p>And I could not disagree with you more on "forgetting your masters in the first 4 years of college." While I will concede that many do not know where they are headed or what they want (sounds like a case for a good liberal arts program), others are able to figure it out ahead of time. Some. And lots change their mind. Some don't. I didn't. </p>

<p>Our daughter is a prime example- she will be working as a patent agent after graduating this May with a dual major in physics/engineering, and with a minor in math to boot...for a year of field experience before she starts law school in 2007, where she plans to study patent law. An undergraduate degree in physics and/or engineering is not only "strongly recommended" for patent law at most law schools that offer the program (not all do), but is "required" at many....so good thing she knew enough ahead (like the first semester of freshman year) where she had an interest so that she could plan her course of study accordingly....or risk being on the UNDERGRADUATE 5-year-lets-change-our-major-plan instead of graduating on time, in 4 years, with a dual major/math minor AND rowing varsity crew for all of them! Which is NOT to say there is anything wrong with a 5-year undergraduate course- the majority of kids have no clue what they want to do- we just lucked out that our kids did not fall into this catagory. And who knows- life may take them on yet another path- interests change, families develop, demands on time alter lots of courses- she may start working in patent law and find she hates it.....or worse yet, she may end up with the guy she's dating now and all hell will break loose.....the best laid plans and all of that.</p>

<p>Some things are a given. Graduate school is a given- a clear expectation in our household....no one said it has to come immediately after an undergrad course of study....but at some point it becomes a necessity in today's marketplace.....in our opinion. And the expectation is the same for the parents, who set the pace. While we are far from advocating our kids to be professional students, education is an engrained value and a life-long endeavor. Blame it on the Jesuit education that has drilled that into my psyche.</p>

<p>So lets try this again. </p>

<p>Want a career at sea as a Naval Officer+want to study NA+want to play lacrosse+want eventually to design ships+want to have a school that is a good fit = USNA for THIS kid.</p>

<p>You will need to do your own math. Don't worry~ you'll get it! ;)</p>

17

<p>navy2010: Sounds like a fit. Good Luck.</p>

18

<p>Your missing the point Navy2010 -
This thread is providing advice for someone who does not "know" what they want to do. You are the one that stated is was important that the school YOUR son went to, had a good NA program. I was just giving heads up that the average stellar USNA candidate should not necessarily put the discreet undergrad major on the top of their priority list...or for that matter, on their priority list at all.</p>

19

<p>Not missing the point at all. You might be. NA brought him to USNA; it was not what kept him there. </p>

<p>The thread is for someone seeking advice.<br>
Many options to consider - NROTC, USNA (Prep) and USMMA</p>

<p>Sounds to me like they are caught between some very good options. We were in that spot one year ago for at least 2 of those same 3 options. And a few more. What I offered is how our son worked through his decision. It is my only reference of experience. I shared that experience. It might help. It might not. It might be of interest to some; it might not be for others. It might help point a way. It might not. It might even be pertinent for someone. Alas, maybe not to others. They are all seller. Even our son. He is hardly alone, or unique. He was one of 11,000 other steller kids. He was lucky, "one of the lucky few of the deserving many" he said. He is a good solid kid that will someday serve our country well. He likes to boat too, and has an interest in ships. Work on them, build them, defend them, defend others. All good. </p>

<p>Please, share with us more of what your experiences have been with having to decide between NROTC, USNA prep and USMMA that might help point a way. Or otherwise. I might be interested. I might, too, find it of help. I might not.</p>

<p>Get the point?</p>

<p>LFWB Dad: thanks, we believe so. If not, it was not for lack of effort.</p>

20

<p>dad2b2010- I completely agree with you. Kids often think they "know" exactly what they want to go for professionally to every detail. Its amazing how it all can quickly change by life/academic experiences . I'm just speaking from our humble family experiences. Our 17 year old only knows for sure he wants to be a naval officer(hopefully at USNA or for sure in NROTC), major in physics or some sort of engineering and then see where his talents, interests take him and where he be most helpful. It sounds good to me!</p>