My two cents is it entirely depends on the kid, the family, and their likely options.
Like, some kids just want to go to their state flagship, which can be a great choice from a combination of academic opportunities and a classic college experience. Some families only have a narrow list of colleges where they would be willing to pay more than the state flagship. And so on.
So I would not say every kid needs these other options.
However, clearly some kids want other options, and some families are willing to pay for other options. And there are often opportunities to at least split the difference between full-pay private and in-state cost of attendance.
So yeah, IF a kid is interested in such options, and IF the family is willing to support such options financially, THEN it becomes a very good idea to really investigate those options. Because then it is usually true there will be such options that are easier admits than the reachiest reaches. In fact, possibly easier admits than the preferred in-state option, depending on the state.
But again, WUSTL and even W&M are not matches. The student is 25/388. My daughter was waitlisted at W&M with as good stats (not ACT), much higher rank from arguably the top school district in our state.
I’m not against the student applying to WUSTL and they said it’s on the list (although it’s not in their preferred geographic zone) - I’m just noting it’s not a match - is all.
There’s 20 spots on common - they can use all to take their best shot - and just slip in a Charleston or UVM like to buttress the others (if OP could be happy there.
CWRU might be another that could work - although again it’s a bit late in the game.
American will be easiest of the DC3 - and while you need interest, there’s still time. He’d be a shoo in with interest and would get moderate (maybe $15k) merit.
For some schools it’s already too late…or at least for Honors or merit programs.
Yeah, the SCOIR data we have for WUSTL (we don’t have Yale for some reason, but I will swap in Harvard and Stanford) is really interesting. At least coming out of our feederish high school, way more kids get accepted to WUSTL without the absolute best numbers. Some of those are likely hooked kids, but not plausibly more than a fraction. In contrast, unhooked kids appear to not really have a shot at the HYPSM colleges without both really good grades and really good test scores. And even then . . . .
Anyway, a lot of those WUSTL acceptances out of our HS are actually RD. I actually don’t really see any sign of WUSTL yield-protecting, they just seem to pretty consistently admit the same types of numbers from our HS whether it is ED or RD. And in fact, there are plenty of ED denials, but almost all of those are kids with not the best grades. In contrast, most of our ED admits to WUSTL had really good numbers anyway.
So I am by no means discouraging an ED II to WUSTL, in fact if my S24 doesn’t get into his REA school there is a good chance he will do that himself.
But I do think for high numbers kids, WUSTL is not necessarily the kind of college where you can’t get admitted RD. I do think, however, they will need to like your grades/transcript combination, and again I don’t feel confident promising the OP how they will evaluate the OP’s kid’s transcript.
I think this becomes a sort of arbitrary line-drawing issue.
For a given kid, armed with knowledge about what different colleges really like, how they fit, maybe some data/experience involving prior applicants from their HS, and so on, what emerges can be more of a spectrum than a simple three-bucket classification. In our HS we start talking about softer reaches, “targets for you,” and so on. But the point is really that toward the end, ideally each school is being carefully chosen for the role it can play in the overall plan.
So, for certain kids, our HS will in fact treat William & Mary (not WUSTL) as a type of target. But all that means is we know kids like that–similar numbers, similar interests/activities, and so on–have had a reasonably good success rate at William & Mary OOS.
But at that point, the label is pretty meaningless anyway. The important point is that kid has identified William & Mary as a good fit both ways (they like the college, the college tends to like kids like them), our counselors agree, and so they apply to William & Mary with more confidence than they would have at WUSTL, let alone Yale.
For public schools in Ky, and even our large private school in Ky, very few kids apply and even less are accepted to T10 schools annually. A few smaller privates send 2 or 3 to Ivies every year. Some kids go to highly rejective schools for athletics, but other than that, I would say a handful of kids from KY as a whole get accepted into each Ivy or comparable each year.
I agree that Wake Forest and W&M are not guarantees for anyone but OP might look at admits from their school. At our school the acceptance rate for WFU is 20 percent overall but according to Naviance data 6 out of 7 students with stats similar to OP were admitted. For W&M our OOS acceptance rate is 35% but over the last 4 years all 8 students with stats similar to OP were admitted. So, yes, these schools are both very selective, but at our high school, these would be match schools for someone with OP stats. DEFINITELY a higher admit likelihood compared to Chicago, Brown, Yale, Penn. Good luck to OP!
I agree with this - but we don’t know about OPs school yet - other than the students rank.
I’m simply saying - they are looking for a middle ground and it is and I myself listed W&M - but if I wanted a middle ground, I’d still ensure I had a “lower” level school admission wise on the list.
My son’s high school is a bit of an enigma as it’s only been open for four years. According to Niche, the average ACT score is 24 and we have a graduation rate of 92%. The administration favors getting kids “job ready” and really pushes dual credit so that they can graduate with an associates degree. Considering that these credits don’t transfer to out of state colleges, we aimed him at AP classes instead. By the time he graduates, he’ll have taken 9 AP classes, with the remainder being honors classes whenever possible. I would guess that the majority of students end up going to state schools, but considering where we live, that’s no surprise. There was one kiddo who got into UChicago last year. As I said, the administration favors dual credit over AP classes, so they carry greater weight, thus his class rank of 25 of 388 despite being a solid 4.0 unweighted GPA (4.286 unweighted). After finishing this year (taking 5 APs this year), that weighted GPA (and class rank) should increase.
For good public schools in KY (excepting a few magnets), you may have a top student go to Vanderbilt or WashU every other year. STEM kids may try for Purdue or even a Georgia Tech. A chunk go to UK. A handful of smart kids will go to Centre or Transylvania. If the student has been exposed to travel and has some money, then maybe an out-of-state large southern public. A number will go to smaller public regional schools, other to community college, and some do not attend college at all.
If he’d be truly happy going there and it isn’t an issue financially, I 100% encourage it. It would multiply his chances significantly (from a prayer to a reach). And don’t let the other reachy reaches hold him back (UPenn, Yale, etc.) because those at RD really are prayers…
I think the majority of most every public district will send to state schools - regardless of where you are.
We are in the top (or top 3 anyway) district in TN - and UTK, Bamaa, WKU, and MTSU dominate.
When I lived in CA, most went to CSUs and we were in a similar district.
That’s not really particular to your district and a 24 for a school, even in a solid district, is not bad. Not tops - but not bad - especially if the test is mandated by the state.
Best of luck whatever he decides.
I just know you have a big gap from a W&M to say - a UK at least in your mind. Or a Murray State?
Maybe a UVM type school fills that gap? It’s the right size and has a very good rep.
I still say look at the Charleston Fellows program - great merit, lots of opportunity and they have awesome add ons. If you PM me, I can tell you where my daughter is this semester…
I actually like the University of Vermont suggestion. It’s a tad bit over the 7 to 9K range the OP mentioned, but not too much (11K). It’s probably a bit more than a target with your son’s stats (target/likely?), and yeah, overall great school.
My impression is that the OP may qualify for significant need based financial aid. If accurate that the applicant is from a low income background, it may help with wealthy reach university admissions.
OP: With a 4.0 U/w GPA, a 35 ACT, symphony violinist, Model UN, and a clear purpose, your son is a very strong candidate for an elite private National University especially if from a low income, rural family in Kentucky.
The hurdle, however, is his class rank (top 10%), but OP has explained that this is due to few or no non-dual enrollment classes.
The obvious target schools (not match–by target I mean desired & match student’s profile & interests):
U Chicago
Northwestern University
Yale
Brown
Georgetown
Dartmouth College (even though not urban)
Princeton
Harvard
Duke
University of Georgia Foundation Fellows
Of course, applying ED to Chicago or Northwestern should have a significant impact on the applicant’s chances of admission.
With a full tuition or better scholarship at the University of Kentucky, he has a solid safety school–especially for one with political ambitions.
Political ambitions: Often the best school is one’s state public university flagship (U Kentucky) as it is likely to facilitate summers in Wash DC working in one of the two Kentucky US Senator’s offices.
I appreciate your input. Unfortunately in this case, we do not qualify for significant need-based financial aid. We just happen to live in a rural area of Kentucky. His class rank will improve by the end of this year (The dual-credit option puts him at a ridiculous disadvantage and we didn’t play the “game”. The school is changing their weighting system starting next year.)
Interesting as high schools which focus on job readiness are often located in low income areas. Sorry for my misreading of your situation.
Regardless, I would be very careful about choosing safety schools for one with such strong academic credentials. Might be wise to look at public flagship honors colleges as safety school options. Will receive merit scholarship money. Most are located in a region that is not preferred by your son.
