Match me for ED for Pre-med? Yale, JH, Upenn, Columbia

College Search & Selection
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Thanks in advance! I have no idea where I stand, my parents don’t know the American college system well, and our counselors are overwhelmed.
I want to go to pre-med but I’m not 100% sure, I know Yale for example doesn’t offer pre-med track, I plan to apply for biology/chemistry majors.

Demographics

  • VERY competitive high school. Ranked top 10 nationally. Good placement (20% in top15 college each year - could probably be higher considering tests scores, but lots of students are low income and choose to go to our state college instead.)
  • High school doesn’t rank but I’m at least in the top 5% considering my GPA. Probably top 1-2%.
  • Hispanic Female
  • Upper middle class
  • Hooks: ?Hispanic? But I’m not first gen nor low income, I’m not sure if it will be impactful.

Intended Major(s) JH BME, Biology/Chimistry for the others.

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 4.0/4.0
  • ACT: 36
  • SAT 1590

Coursework
*Took 9 AP classes already: AP Biology, AP French, AP Calculus, AP English, AP Us Gov, APush, AP Chimistry, AP CS, AP Psychology. (I took 3 of them by myself online)
Plan to study AP Spanish, AP Art, AP Physics, AP Stats + take college courses Senior year.
5s in all of the AP.

Awards
I don’t have important awards. I will probably be national merit finalist. I qualified for the Biology Olympiad nationally, had some prizes on State level. I was really busy with my business on the side + all the AP classes.

Extracurriculars

*Founded an online business, 6 figures revenues in 2 years. Promoted on social media, managed one employee.
*Did a prestigious medical research summer internship at a top ranked uni.
*Took college level classes + did a selective immersion program at my local uni.
*Did a chimestry research internship at my local community college and wrote a published paper.
*Volunteered at the local hospital.
*Med club president for what it’s worth.

I grew up in 2 different cultures, both latino cultures and I lived in multiple latin american countries. I came to the US at 10 and had to learn English. I plan to write about it in my essays, and weave it with my goal to become a doctor. I don’t want to insist on the immigrant part since I’m upper middle class. But I really want to talk about my multi-cultural background and how I want to support my community.

Cost Constraints / Budget
None.

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You can take the prerequisite courses to attend medical school at just about ANY college in this country…including Yale (arts conservatories excluded). Yale sends its share of students on to medical school.

But specifically to your question….as you know, this list of colleges you have made is very top heavy. Your stats are excellent, and you have a chance to be accepted…but at colleges that accept about 10% of applicants, nothing is a sure thing. So apply when the time comes…if you are a junior now, you might want to consider if any of these is a top contender, and use your ED spot for that college. And I usually don’t suggest ED…but since cost isn’t a factor (are you sure?)…then think about this.

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Congratulations on your achievements.

I agree with the above, you can do premed from any school and major in any subject, as long as you take all med school required courses. I would caution you about majoring in engineering though, as it can be difficult to earn a high GPA, and med schools don’t generally give extra consideration to those with relatively low GPAs in hard majors.

Are you a US citizen/permanent resident, or will you be applying as an international student? I would also recommend you apply ED (if you have a top choice) or SCEA. What state do you live in?

Make sure you have a balanced list, including a handful of match schools and at least one safety you would be happy to attend.

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Even without the hook of being Hispanic (underrepresented minorities get an admissions boost at most colleges), you are a superb candidate. You have a decent chance anywhere.

Don’t worry about premed curriculum. Virtually every college in the country offers the classes that you need to take to apply to med school. Hardly any place offers a premed major, because there really is no such thing - premed is pretty much just first year bio, chem, physics, organic, English, plus some schools want biochem, Stat or Calc, maybe Psych. Med schools teach you what you need to know, in med school. Major in whatever you love doing, in any field. Med schools like to admit people who’ve majored in fields other than sciences. As for engineering, if that is what you’re really good at, what you truly love doing, then major in it. Med schools understand that engineering GPAs are a little lower than in other disciplines. They also know that engineers who are also MDs will be the people who design new medical devices, so if this is your true love, then do it.

You should add Harvard to your list, also MIT (which is looking for highly qualified women and URMs). You’d be a candidate for a merit scholarship at Boston University. In Philly, consider Drexel, too. Clearly, you’re targeting Ivies or Ivy-equivalents in the large Northeast coast cities. Cambridge/Boston is a great city to be in. In NYC, consider adding NYU. Also consider Brown in Providence, RI.

If you’re willing to go farther, you should take a look at all the T50 schools that are in major cities, especially those with medical schools and hospitals (more opportunities for volunteering/shadowing/medical scribing). But realize that most people who enter college planning on medicine wind up changing their mind, and not applying to medical school. In addition, those who don’t do all their premed requirements can finish them up later on, after they’ve finished college.

Make sure that you apply to your in-state flagship U, as a financial safety, and possibly some less competitive schools where you could be offered a full scholarship, unless you are absolutely sure, after a very frank conversation with your parents, that they are willing and able to pay over 360K for 4 years of college plus another (by that time) possibly 400K for 4 yrs of med school. You seem to me to be the sort of candidate who would win scholarships anywhere that offers them, especially if the scholarships are geared towards Hispanics, or Hispanic women.

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You will do well wherever you go (proven this by grades/scores and self-studying for some of them) and will likely have a decent number of acceptances to pick from.

All colleges have pre-med routes. Pre-med just isn’t a major, and if it is somewhere, you don’t want it. Major in whatever you like the best and/or what you think would be your Plan B if you decide trying for med school isn’t for you.

Then consider what you want in a college. Don’t worry about ranking. Any of the ones you’d be thinking about are perfectly fine. Think about what you like - big/small, research or not, location - stuff like that. You want to enjoy your 4 years. For pre-med it is helpful to have hospitals nearby for volunteering and shadowing, but it’s not critical.

Then contemplate if you really want to be full pay or not. College is expensive. Med school is expensive. Med school most have to pay for, but college can be inexpensive for your stats and you still end up at a terrific undergrad. Do you want to invest a quarter of a million in it or would you rather spend it elsewhere in the future?

A top lass at our school got into places like Stanford, but she’d have been full pay. She opted for a full ride at Wake Forest instead and never regretted it. She later finished med school and is now in residency at a very top hospital everyone would recognize.

You can look at schools like Wake Forest, Pittsburgh, Vanderbilt, U Rochester and probably oodles more that offer competitive full rides and see if you get one. Then choose among all your options based upon what feels right to you considering finances and preferences. Look at colleges to apply to based upon where you think you want to go, not just names you’ve heard about or a list of Ivies. (Consider them, of course, but they may or may not make your final cut for applications.)

Best wishes to you along your journey - regardless of path!

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Congratulations on your achievements. You will have a decent shot at any of these schools. Now is the time to do a deeper dive to better customize your list. Look at the programs/majors that interest you. Consider the locations (weather, urban, suburban, rural, travel convenience). You also have a huge advantage in having access to HS alums who are attending the schools on your list. Talk to them about their experience. In addition to forming your list, you will be better prepared for the school specific essays.

I am from the school of limiting your apps to no more than 10-12 off an initial list of no more than 20. I think your list can be reach heavy, but have a few matches and safeties in your initial list. I would SCEA or EA your top school. I would not ED unless it were your clear number 1 choice. I would also EA/rolling admissions early to your state flagship (honors college if available) or other flagships/honors as your low match/safeties which would be allowed by the SCEA schools. Based on your SCEA/EA results you can choose which schools to eventually submit an RD application. If you get into your SCEA school, you are done except for perhaps a couple of other high reaches or you are chasing merit. If you get deferred but you get into any of your state EA schools, all schools ranked lower on your list can be discarded. If you get rejected from your SCEA school, given your stats, EC’s and background, I’d take another look at your essays and possibly who you chose for your LoR’s. Something went off the rails there.

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https://students-residents.aamc.org/media/7041/download has a listing of pre-med course requirements for various medical schools. These can be done alongside any college major. Many pre-meds are biology majors because that conveniently overlaps with many pre-med course requirements, but that is not required. Consider what major best fulfills your interests, especially for the case where you do not go to medical school.

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Excellent accomplishments and stats! As others have noted already, you will have some very good options.
Questions for you and your family to consider:

  1. Will you be able to afford being possibly full pay at a top tier university for undergrad and then med school afterward?
  2. Would you consider LAC’s like Lafayette College or Washington and Lee (these are just examples - I am sure there are others as well), where you could possibly get substantial merit for undergrad?
  3. Have you considered combined BS/MD programs? I think you would be a very good candidate, but of course it involves a big commitment from the outset.

Wishing you all the best!

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I think you will be competitive for every school but remember that these schools accept <10% of applicants and all these are applicants that typically have super stats and scores. I hope you have a few RD/EA schools that would be good matches/safeties.

Pre-med advice – I would go to the most selective smallish school you can get into that has a medical school. If you are shooting for prestige then Dartmouth, Tufts and schools of that type.

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Why would an undergrad college need a med school? There is virtually no spillover from the professional schools to the undergrad institutions in most cases. Many university’s med schools are housed on a different campus entirely. What’s the advantage to the OP?

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Good question.

Beyond grades and MCAT, which I believe is ~3.78 and and 517 now for matriculated students, there are at least three major components one has to address to get into a top med school (or any reputable med school for that matter): research (ideally with at least 1 peer reviewed pub and 1-2 national meeting abstracts), volunteering/leadership (both health related and independent of it, 400 hr+) and clinical experience (big one, 600 hr+.) If you read my post, you will see that I specifically stated a small competitive college with a med school. That gives you opportunity to do all of that in an efficient manner.

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Research can be with a biology professor doing DNA sequencing. You don’t need a med school for that (if med schools even WANT undergrads doing research). Volunteering/Leadership can be done anywhere. Clinical Experience-- again- hospitals, community clinics, etc.

I think limiting yourself to colleges which have a med school is an artificial screen. There are dozens of colleges which have a track record getting students into med schools, none of which have their own med school. And what do you say to Cornell undergrads who live in Ithaca-- not NYC where Cornell’s med school is?

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Sure. It can be done. It is a lot harder. If I had to choose myself, I would pick a school that had more opportunities in my field of interest.

Just for kicks, here is the profile of matriculating students at ECU. They are pretty transparent with their numbers. Most kids come from large, well-resourced universities and metro areas. It is not an accident. And ECU is probably one of the least competitive med schools in NC and nation.

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If you like Pittsburgh at all (doesn’t have to be your #1 choice - you just have to like it enough to want to attend if nothing else came through), apply there as they are rolling admissions. You’ll have your acceptance - and likely some merit aid - quickly. Then don’t apply anywhere you don’t like more than Pitt.

I know quite a few top level students who opt to do that. More than one has chosen them at the end as their first choice even though they started as a safety. It’s a good school with a lot of opportunities for pre-meds, plus if you’re as near the top as you are, their merit money can be terrific.

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I think similar to others, your accomplishments are insane so congrats - but your list is all tippy top.

When you say cost constraints are none, I’m not sure if that means you can afford full pay or you’ll have no EFC. In many cases, families that can afford to pay won’t want to full pay - because it could be a $600-800K expense to get through med school.

So a few thoughts -

  1. there’s many lists out there of great pre med schools. I’m attaching just one.

  2. You can qualify for auto merit at so many schools (especially publics)- and fantastic merit at many fine colleges for pre-med - let’s say second tier type schools from a Macalester to a BU to a Rochester to Union (excellent for pre med) or potentially score a full ride at a place like W&L and their Johnson - someone mentioned b4.

  3. I would ask you to look at the doctors you see - do you know where they went to undergad?? I don’t even know where they went to grad school - just if they are in the insurance network or not :slight_smile: But back to the spending $800K, while the top schools do have great successes, they’re not the only route.

  4. Because the four you list are reaches for all, and your chance is as good as everyone, but make sure you have two safeties - which for you might be a Wake Forest, Rochester, Case, Brandeis, etc. Great schools just a notch below.

Best of luck to you.

25 Great Pre-Med Schools that are not in the Ivy League | MedSchoolCoach

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At least some med schools give a little bit of preference to their own undergrad grads. In U Rochester’s class of '25, 16 of their 105 came from UR undergrad. The next highest was 5 from JHU. Their School of Medicine is across the street from their Undergrad, so many students volunteer and shadow there, undoubtedly helping (or hurting?) their apps as doctors get to know who they are.

I imagine this would be more difficult when the SOM isn’t next to the undergrad (or close enough to commute) so there may be no preferences at those places, but there are plenty of schools near enough to each other to give one some potential benefit if they otherwise like the place.

I agree it’s not necessary, but it sure can be nice.

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Thank you much everyone for your answers!
It’s really helpful since my parents don’t know American college admission/American college system well, and our counselors in our public high school are trying their best, but it’s hard to get some personalize advice/time with them.

*For financial aid, according to online calculators, I won’t have a lot, if any - so I don’t know if I should still try ask for need based aid? I’ve been working hard and saving my own money for college. My parents will help but not a lot: college in their countries is free and they don’t get the American college system and how/why it’s so expensive.

I wanted to go to a top college for multiple reasons:

-Have more research opportunities (potentially?)
-Be more competitive for top medical schools (I was looking at JH med school’s student profile and most of them went to top undergraduate colleges. I know it’s a long shoot, but if I could I would love to work as a research doctor. Do I need to go to a top Med school for that?).
-Still have a good college on my resume if I drop out of pre-med.

I’ll apply to our state college, but it’s still expensive. According to my calculator Yale would costs around $50k/year (I may be able to have a small financial aid package.) and my state college will costs at least $27k/year considering my parents income.

I’ll try to look at the merit scholarships everyone mentionned. Boston College or another top50 school would be GREAT with a scholarship.

Thanks so much again!!! I have lots of research to do from now.

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Ah yes, I’m permanent US resident and will apply to college as such :slight_smile:

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There is a HUGE difference between $27K and $50K.

While I can’t speak to research from campus to campus, most will have opportunities - you need to reach out to a professor of interest. While the # of students conducting research may be less, you will find plenty of opportunities at most flagships.

There are schools SMU, W&L that have full rides. Many others. With your 4.0, you’re going to score unbelievable deals (maybe even a full ride) at Alabama and $35K off tuition at Arizona…so now that’s maybe $20K full pay. Florida State, South Carolina…so many great ones. National Merit will help you at many schools. For USC, it’s at least 50% off tuition if admitted.

If you’re a Senior (I think you are), you may be limited by missed deadlines - like Florida schools.

But Bama and Arizona would still be available…Pitt although merit is tough as it gets later. They are rolling admission so if interested you’d want to get in quickly.

These are just back ups so that you have options just in case the four you have listed don’t work out for whatever reason. It’s awesome to want to be a Dr. but you don’t need to be a bankrupt one.

As for should you apply for need based aid - 100% yes absolutely. But know to apply you not only need to do the FAFSA but the CSS. If you are saying it shows your out of pocket is $50K at Yale, then yes, you need to apply for aid.

Finally, many state schools have programs like this one below.

Randall Research Scholars Program – honors.ua.edu | The University of Alabama

Best of luck to you.

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Understood - we all think US colleges are expensive, but financial aid is dependent primarily on parental income. Where will you get the 50K / year that’s the EFC for Yale and probably other similar schools? Best to have the financial talk with your parents, and find out how much they can contribute before you start drawing up your list.

Some highly ambitious researchers have MD/Ph.D.'s It’s not something I would think about as a high school student, but may come into focus more as you get further into your undergrad program. Your current focus should be a good undergrad university you and your family can afford.

Can you please clarify for us if you are a junior or a senior?

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