Match Me: Rising Senior Interested in Law! [IN resident, 3.78/1370]

Chance Me / Match Me!
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I got told that I should come back in the summer between junior and senior year for a more accurate match, so here I am again! Hopefully I’m doing this right.

Demographics:

  • US Citizen, first-gen American from immigrants
  • IN resident
  • Public, somewhat competitive high school
  • Asian woman (Filipino)

Intended Major:
I will probably end up in international relations, legal studies, political science, or maybe economics. Either way, I want to go to law school specifically to pursue international business law.

GPA, Rank, Test Scores:
Unweighted GPA: 3.78
Weighted GPA: 4.01

Rank: 37/867 (School doesn’t do ranks anymore, so I’m not sure where I’m at right now. That rank is from second semester sophomore year.)

Test Scores: I’m set to retake the SAT in September, but I don’t know if I want to submit any of these scores.
SAT: 1370
ACT: 28 (22/24 for math and science, 33/32 for English and reading, 6 for writing)
AP Lang 4, AP Euro 3, and AP Psych 3.

Coursework:
I’m a mixed bag of both AP and some dual-credit classes through IU, plus some other graduation requirement classes. I’ve taken AP Euro, Lang, and Psych. With dual-credit classes, I have taken business calculus and U.S. history. Next year doesn’t include any dual-credit classes, but I will be taking AP Gov, Macro/Micro, World, and Literature. All other classes taken so far that are graduation requirements (i.e., freshmen biology, sophomore chemistry, and three years of Spanish) have otherwise been honors classes.

Awards: I have a few debate and speech awards, but mostly from regular-season tournaments. Right now, I’m sitting at six top-five debate awards and six top-five speech awards. I’ve also been to the state debate tournament thrice, and twice for the speech state tournament. I was a semifinalist at both state competitions this year. I am a national qualifier for NSDA Nationals. Last year, I attended with my school as a supplemental entry. I am also a regional champion for our English academic team.

EC:

  • Four years of debate, both in class and as a club. I am a captain this year, in charge of my event.
  • Three years of speech. I am also a captain for the speech team, and again, in charge of my club.
  • Executive for environmental awareness club for three years, including collaborating with local nonprofit groups.
  • Executive for our local autism awareness club, including collaborating with our local autism center
  • NHS Executive and PR manager
  • Founder and coach of my district’s middle school debate league for two years.
  • Camp counselor for the middle school summer camp for one year.
  • Tutor for English and debate
  • I am a Sunday school volunteer teacher at my local church. I teach fourth graders currently.
  • Piano for eleven years
  • Accepted into the Notre Dame summer scholars program, but ultimately rejected because of cost.

Essays/LORs/Other:

Essays:
I’m still juggling between multiple topics and drafts for my essays. The one I’m working on right now is my ridiculously long name (seven names long!) and how it’s my entire identity wrapped up into 40 characters. My AP Lang teacher has said it’s solid so far.

However, I’m well aware that I come off as a speech and debate kid, so I may change my essay to be about that.

LORs:
Debate Coach: 10/10, we’re pretty close, I’ve been in his class for two years, and I know he writes excellent recommendation letters, so I think it’s really strong.
Vice Principal: 9/10. She’s also a coach for debate, so I’m not sure if I should ask her. If I were to, we’re on pretty good terms, so I think it would be fine.
English Teacher: 8/10, I think she knows my writing skills and personality well after my year with her.

Cost Constraints and Budget:
My family is not wealthy by any means, but we’re pretty lucky. My dad’s job provides us with 26K-a-semester tuition reimbursement (extremely grateful for that!), and my parents are willing to take out loans for any other needs, so long as I pay it back after college. I’m definitely looking for merit aid to cover any additional tuition or other costs to lighten that load on them.

Thank you so much!

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You didn’t list any schools. Is there a size type, geography, environment (urbran, rural, etc0 or other facets you want?

So you get $26K a semester - just for tuition or would that cover room and board too?

No, you don’t want or need loans. But if the $26K is just for tuition, how will you pay for room and board?

What schools have you identified and liked?

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Oops, totally forgot about all of that! Sorry about that.

I don’t have any particular schools in mind, but weather is a big factor for me, as I cannot handle places that are warm year round. Any size of school would work. Additionally, I’d prefer suburban or urban environments.

It only covers tuition, so room and board would have to be covered by either all loans, working part-time, or a combination of both depending on the cost.

I visited Loyola University in Chicago and really liked it. I’ve visited IU and Purdue and found both of them nice. Notre Dame is also a school I loved touring. I’m also not opposed to going really far from Indiana.

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Your application will already have plenty of info about your speech & debate experiences. Your current topic about your name sounds really interesting (and reminds me of a person who had about 20 names…I remember 4 of them decades later).

For colleges that request letters of recommendation, they usually prefer one from the humanities/social sciences (English/history/foreign language) and one from science/math. Some of them make it a requirement. Is there a math or science teacher that you think would be able to write a solid recommendation for you? It doesn’t have to be that you got all As in the class…it can talk about what a hard worker you are, how you get along with others, how you’re a team player, how you persevere and don’t give up, etc.

Would paying for greater transportation costs be burdensome for your family? Also, at least for smaller schools, you may want to talk to the financial aid office to see if any institutional scholarships/grants could be applied toward your room & board, rather than tuition. You could ask at larger schools, but larger schools tend to be more bureaucratic and might not be as willing to customize the experience.

Also, do you want to continue with speech and debate in college?

ETA: I would have your family run a FAFSA calculator like this one: Federal Student Aid to see what the government would anticipate your family to pay, excluding the $52k/year in tuition from your parent’s employer. $52k towards tuition is awesome, but there are colleges where tuition exceeds that amount, and it would be helpful to know what type of contribution your family would be expected to pay, in case that amount plus the $52k is still less than a college’s costs (and therefore you would be likelier to receive need-based aid at these expensive schools). Realize that the FAFSA expected family contribution is not what most schools will calculate it to be, but it gives us a ballpark figure to work with.

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IU is a fabulous option, and it’s so great that it’s in-state for you. You’ve already visited (and liked) Loyola Chicago, which is another option I think could be very good for you. I’ve listed some schools below that you may want to check out. The bolded ones are the ones whose tuition is under $52k and that you could reach out to in order to see if they would apply any institutional aid (whether merit or need-based) to the room and board portion I left the ones with tuition about $52k, in case they would award any aid, and/or so that others will realize what the costs are if they are thinking about other suggestions.

  • American (D.C.): About 8500 undergrads, tuition is $53,889

  • Brandeis (MA): About 3600 undergrads, tuition is $62,322

  • Bryant (RI): About 3100 undergrads, tuition is $49,329

  • Butler (IN): About 4500 undergrads in Indianapolis, tuition is $44,460

  • Denison (OH): About 2300 undergrads, tuition is $60,000

  • Dickinson (PA ): About 2200 undergrads, tuition is $61,351

  • Drake (IA): About 2900 undergrads in Des Moines, tuition is $47,742

  • Fairfield (CT): About 4600 undergrads, tuition is $54,455

  • Lehigh (PA ): About 5500 undergrads, tuition is $59,930

  • Saint Joseph’s (PA ): About 4200 undergrads in Philadelphia, tuition is $49,610

  • Saint Louis (MO): About 8700 undergrads, tuition is $50,644

  • U. of Cincinnati (OH): About 29k undergrads, tuition is $28,540, and this school places a lot of emphasis on co-ops

  • U. of Dayton (OH): About 8600 undergrads, tuition is $46,170

  • U. of Denver (CO): About 5900 undergrads, tuition is $56,439

  • U. of Puget Sound (WA): About 1900 undergrads in Tacoma, tuition is $57,626

  • U. of St. Thomas (MN): About 6100 undergrads in St. Paul, tuition is $50,366

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Being a lawyer who has practiced for over two decades, I feel I have some relevant advice. Law school has changed. When I went there were no scholarships. Now, there are, but there are not a lot. Everyone focuses on the T14 (it is T14 because of Georgetown Law, my alma mater). But, law is regional. I practice in Tennessee. While I went to law school at Georgetown, all of my colleagues went to the University of Memphis or Ole Miss. They are all very good lawyers. If you want to work in BIG LAW or government, then maybe you need to go to a T14 law school. If you want to work in a different environment…not so much. Know, though, that law is DRASTICALLY changing. AI is beginning to leave an impact. You are, a minimum, of seven years from practicing law. In seven years, AI will impact the legal employment market, just consider that.

My advice would be to find an inexpensive public university that you like and start there. Do well. Take a major that trains you to write and think critically (take a logic and public speaking class at a minimum). Do well on the LSAT. Minimize student loan debt. Luckily, you have Indiana University and Purdue in state. Both a wonderful universities. Apply to both.

Why focus on student loan debt…see my comment on scholarships in law school above. It took me sixteen years to payoff my law school debt (and I had a great interest rate below 3%). But debt has an opportunity cost. That was money each month I had to pay that COULD have gone to something else. It is hard to understand that when you are young, but opportunity costs matter. Who you are today is not who you will be in four or seven years. Good luck and best wishes.

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As another who has practiced law for 20+ years and can attest to the changes in the legal market, I did get a scholarship that covered about 90% of my tuition at a T50 school. I was in Texas, and at that time the market was quite regional. But if you were top 10-15% you could reasonably expect BigLaw offers. But at the time it was like top half of a T14 school for the same prospects. Now many more people from out of state come to practice here (due to the law firms that pay associates in all offices the same salary and low cost of living here) and it is much more competitive now. If you want to do “international business law” you are probably looking at having to put in 5 years in a big firm before you have the option to move in house.

I went to a tiny school I have never heard mentioned here (though I was NMF and turned down full tuition to Tulane and other schools) and did very well. I did well on the LSAT. I went to the decent law school that was cheapest at the time, when law school tuition was running $20K, and is now $80K for the same school.

This is all to say that doing really well in undergrad is more important than where you go to school. Also, having an idea of where you want to practice can open up additional opportunities and you should consider the in-state schools for that market.

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This. Plus, doing well on the LSAT.

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I just wanted to echo this, and suggest it also implies that what you major in is also less important than ending up in a major where you do really well.

The sorts of colleges you are looking at are generally all good for this. But, for example, I would not necessarily put a strong value on a college being really good for IR, since maybe you will find you are best suited for Econ, or indeed something you didn’t expect. And the more selective law schools will not particularly care if you, say, end up as an Art History major instead, even though that may seem completely unrelated to your intended legal career.

Because the expectation is really that outside of patent law, whatever you need to know for a specific legal practice will be taught to you long after college, indeed most of it after law school.

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Major does not matter. But, you DO need to be able to write and think critically. Some majors are better at that. In general, science majors write less than humanities majors. As the founder of my firm, when looking for hires, I prefer someone who majored in the humanities (with honors, naturally). I also want someone who reads.

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Yeah, law schools appear to like STEM majors (as long as you have the grades, which is actually sometimes a real challenge), but I would agree reading/writing majors are actually the best preparation for both law school and legal practice. And really, I think the more dense and difficult the texts you have to read in your major, the better.

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Me three. As a history major, all of my exams were essay and there were paper requirements for most upper level classes. We wrote more than the English majors. It was great preparation for my job of sitting at a computer writing all day.

Edited to acknowledge that had I not planned on going to law school I would not have had much use for the degree in history, I admit. Though I think it would seem to have prepared me better for other fields like corporate communications, than the business degree in that field.

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My sense is many competitive business employers (and graduate business schools, although usually you do employment first) feel basically the same way about this as law schools and legal employers. Frankly, colleges can’t really teach what you specifically need to know for a specific business career. So, they want smart people with good basic skills, and in business that very much includes critical thinking and communications, written and oral.

Hence a lot of colleges with excellent placement in business and law don’t even offer pre-business or pre-law programs.

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Tulane Altman program? https://altman.tulane.edu/

But you want winter.

if you want intl law, fluency in a regional language and culture is a good idea. Gap yr in the target language?

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International anything (law, business, relations…) requires excellent linguistic and cultural fluency in at least one target culture where the language is spoken.
Colleges such as Dickinson with a culture-based language curriculum (v. literature-based - and the curriculum DOES include literature, just isn’t the main or sole focus) are what you’re looking for. Most top colleges now offer this either as their “default” or as one possible track.
(I list Dickinson because it may not be as well known to you as other colleges.)

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