Math and engineering question

Hi
My D is high school junior . For college she is interested in economics and in engineering/ sciences ( but has not zeroed in specific areas as major/minor etc). She has done AP Bio, Chemistry so far currently doing Honors Anatomy/ Physiology, AP Calc AB, next year planning to do physics and AP stats . If there are best practices you know of that help parents to to help kids zero in on their focus area, would love to know.

Couple of Questions for engineering
– She has not any done major engineering-y work during summers or outside school. can she still explore that as a career choice in college?
– any cons to going in as undecided or does one pretty much have to declare which branch of engineering they want to get into ( hearing about the term impacted majors)
– Howmuch more math does one do beyond high school math of AP calc AB and AP stats ( planned for senior year).
– are there interdisciplinary fields that combine economics/business/finance/engineering etc?

Thanks in advance for your input

  1. Most kids really don’t have any exposure to what field they will eventually study.
  2. Engineering tends to be more difficult to transfer into after you start college. Business could also be difficult. It is best to start with the most difficult of the reasonable choices and apply that way.
  3. For most types of engineering there will be significant math above Calc 1 (Calc AB)
  4. Yes, Industrial Engineering would be an example.
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I’d suggest that she try a summer engineering program this summer if it is not too late to apply or at least an e-day at a local university or maybe the robotics team at her high school - not for an admissions boost, just to see if she enjoys it.

I think it depends on the school whether she can change from one type of engineering to another, my D was able to make this switch since freshman year everyone was taking the same general courses (math, physics, chemistry, bio, english, etc.)

Math-Depends on the school and major but at minimum -Calc II/III, Differential Equations/Linear Algebra, probably more(complex variables, numerical methods, probability, etc. ) plus the engineering courses themselves are math heavy.

There are a few dual degree and interdisciplinary programs. Here are some examples:
https://wpcarey.asu.edu/undergraduate-degrees/economics-engineering
B.S., Integrated Business and Engineering | P.C. Rossin College of Engineering & Applied Science google for more.

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Depends on the college. Engineering departments and majors are often over-capacity at larger colleges about as selective as popular state flagships. More selective colleges are often smaller ones with big endowments that can support large enough departments that have plenty of capacity for all, while less selective colleges often do not have enough students able and willing to handle the rigor of an engineering major.

You may find various methods of engineering admission at colleges where departments are filled to capacity:

  1. Admission directly to major as frosh. Each major may have its own selectivity level. However, since majors are filled to capacity by direct admission, changing major may be difficult (requiring high GPA and/or competitive application). This method is used by UIUC and California public universities.
  2. Admission to a first year engineering undeclared program. Entrance to major occurs later after taking beginning college courses. Entrance to major may be non-selective (e.g. Michigan and Pittsburgh), moderately selective (e.g. Cornell, Virginia Tech, Minnesota), or highly selective for some majors (e.g. Texas A&M, NCSU), although there is usually a less popular engineering major that admits students down to 2.0 GPA.

In cases where the engineering majors are filled to capacity, using either of the above methods of admission, a student admitted to the school outside the engineering division or major is likely to find it fairly difficult to change into an engineering major. Note that some schools may admit engineering applicants to a non-engineering undeclared status if they make the cut for the school but not the engineering major or division.

Typical engineering math:

College math course High school course with similar content
Calculus 1 (single variable) AP calculus AB
Calculus 2 (single variable) AP calculus BC (last half of content)
Calculus 3 or multivariable calculus
Linear algebra
Differential equations

Some majors may include more advanced math courses, or departmental courses that are like advanced applied math courses.

AP statistics is generally not accepted for subject credit for engineering majors. If statistics is required, it will generally be a calculus-based course.

Industrial engineering, which is more about designing processes rather than things, has overlap with business, finance, and economics aspects. Some colleges also have non-engineering operations research; such majors (and industrial engineering) tend to be math and statistics heavy.

A few colleges offer combined engineering + business programs. However:

  1. Schedules tend to be very packed with requirements for both majors.
  2. Some engineering employers are skeptical of the commitment to engineering that such students have when considering new graduates who apply for employment. @HPuck35 has written about negative experiences with such graduates who tend to want a fast track to management rather than work in engineering.
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Check out the Integrated Business and Engineering Major at Purdue. Good option for students interested in multiple fields.

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Look at the ISyE program at Georgia Tech.

https://www.isye.gatech.edu/academics/bachelors/industrial-engineering

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  • Yes your child can still explore engineering in college and I agree that it isn’t too late to do some things this summer. Look at your local SWE (society of women engineers) chapter and see if there are any events in your area. My D did a ton of free things through SWE. Do you know any engineers who would be willing to have your D shadow them? That can also be useful.

  • Going in undecided can matter for schools that admit by major. That said there are many others that don’t have students declare until second semester sophomore year. Generally speaking for schools that do admit by major, or college, it’s easier to apply to engineering and then transfer out, rather than trying to transfer in later. There are also schools that have a common first year engineering curriculum and then some kind of transition to major after freshman year. Parsing that out more will help develop the college list.

  • My D is a junior chem E. She used AP credit for Calc I and started in Calc II. She then took Calc III, Linear Alg, Diff Eq, and a calc based statistical modeling/probabilities class. Those were her only pure math courses but every single class integrates lots of applied math. Her fluids dynamic class was described by the teacher as a “festival of calculus”.

  • My H has a degree in ORIE. That is exactly the kind of interdisciplinary field you are describing. That said, my D has a certification in collaborative leadership, and is doing capital projects at her co-op. Her long range plan is to get her MBA after working for a while. She also has enough AP credits that she has plenty of room in her schedule to add a minor. Many schools now have entrepreneurship programs. Here’s the link to Purdue’s: Burton D. Morgan Center for Entrepreneurship - Burton D. Morgan Center for Entrepreneurship - Purdue University

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Why specifically did you ask the math question? We really need to know that to advise with any accuracy.

If you asked because she’s in the “I don’t really like this, but I tolerate it because I have to” camp, then I’d be wary of any engineering. Even most IEs take math through Linear Analysis.

Others like MEs and AEs take even more, as mentioned, either in the form of a math class or an engineering class that is effectively a math class. My son never took Tensor Calculus in the Math Department, but Continuum Mechanics was effectively a class in exactly that and its application.

An academic engineer that helped my son choose an area of focus before he applied said that if you were going to pick one single thing to predict a HS student’s success in engineering, it was their level and proficiency with math at the time they graduated. They didn’t need math beyond one year of Calc, but doing well AND enjoying it was tightly correlated with future performance.

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One con going in undecided is that you may be closing off opportunities for scholarships. Some schools have additional scholarships managed by colleges (like the College of Engineering at a big state university) or departments. Nearly all of the outside merit scholarships that our local community foundation gives out also preference areas of study; engineering, education, business, nursing/medical, etc.

If you are applying to schools that only award need based aid and won’t be seeking outside scholarships then that con won’t apply.

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I’m a (female) CE for almost 30 years now. Most of your questions have been answered, but FWIW I had no engineering ECs or classes before college. My Dad was an aerospace engineer, but mostly I knew he worked all the time and when not at work, he worked in the basement.

My university had all engineers start off as general. One of our freshman classes exposed us to the various branches, and we chose from there. You did have to be accepted into that branch, but I don’t recall that being much of an issue for people.

Re: math. The class requirements are described well above. You do have to like math to be an engineer. You use calculus in most of the classes. That being said, after graduation you don’t use it much. At least not in CE. The only time I’ve used it since college was for the PE exam and when my kids took it, I would work problems from their books for fun.

Is your D a problem solver? That trait is pretty important. Being a tinker-er helps as well. But I am not one and have done fine.

One last thing. I have a S who was a generic smart kid with no real idea what he wanted to do. I had him read the upper level course descriptions for various majors. What makes them go “ugh no way.” Vs “huh. That sounds cool.” Can help a great deal.

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