I’m seeking advice for my rising junior. Her math progression since 8th grade has been Algebra 1 Honors, Geometry Honors and Algebra 2 Honors. Next in the progression is PreCalc Honors. However, due to complications with her schedule, the honors class will not fit unless she gives up two classes that are important to her. She is choosing between PreCalc Standard as a junior and AP Stats as a senior. OR AP stats as a junior and PreCalc Honors as a senior.
She is a good math student when she has a good teacher. The PreCalc Standard teacher is not a good one (my son had her for honors Alg 2), so we are thinking of going with AP Stats. One concern is, will taking a year between Alg 2 Honors and PreCalc Honors be difficult to overcome? If she takes PreCalc standard, will that be frowned upon by college admissions officers after seeing honors level math all along? She also can’t take AP Calc AB if she doesn’t take PreCalc Honors, so hoping that is not a deal-breaker for college admissions. She is not looking at STEM majors, will have about 9 AP classes by graduation, 4.3+ GPA, est. 28-30 ACT, plus well-rounded work, activity and leadership resume. Thoughts?
No, not if the result of a schedule conflict. But again, it really depends on the classes she is opting for in lieu of honors precalc
Not having calc will probably not be an issue if she is realistic with her college list based on a 28-30 ACT. If you come back and say she is targeting Brown and Princeton, then she has greater challenges than not having calc.
Also, will she need to take calculus for her major in college? If so, be aware that calculus AB in high school is a slower more gentle introduction to calculus than calculus 1 in college (except maybe if the college/major allows and offers a less rigorous calculus 1 for business majors course).
My D had a ton of conflicts junior year so I empathize. I don’t know what the other courses are, but core courses should be the priority over electives.
I also agree that if your D will need calc in college, taking it in HS will make the transition so much easier.
Is there a non honors calc option if she takes regular pre-calc?
Thanks for these comments - very helpful! Unfortunately, there is only AP Calc offered at our school. The class causing the conflict is an elective. It’s a new entrepreneurship program where student teams take a class all about how to start up a business and compete Shark-Tank style for funding to actually launch (or grow an existing business). They will also have mentors from the community and a “lab” of prototype resources. It is offered at a central location so it takes up a class period and a transportation period. She’s been pretty burned out on school and this is a passion of hers that is causing a trade-off. I’m leaning toward AP Stats for junior year and Honors PreCalc senior year so at least there is less of a gap before taking Calc 1 in college (if needed).
What colleges is she aiming for?
AP stats+ precalculus honors would be 100% fine if she’s aiming for colleges such as Luther, LMU-LA, UPuget Sound, Hendrix, UNC Asheville, Muhlenberg, St Michael’s.
If she’s aiming for colleges such as NCSU, St Olaf, Whitman, UCLA, Emory, Dickinson, St Lawrence… It’ll be more problematic.
AP stats+ precalculus honors is better than precalculus regular+AP stats.
I agree that it totally depends on what kinds of colleges she has on her radar.
If competitive schools are the goal, I would not risk taking an elective, no matter how cool it sounds, over H precalc followed by AP calc senior year.
Have you spoken to the school GC? What do they think? Will dropping down in math change how the school will mark her course rigor?
At this point, we are just about to start visiting colleges, so it is difficult to say what she is aiming for. She likes the prestige of the competitive schools, but realistically, with an ACT in the 28-30 range, that’s going to be difficult with the college admissions rat race. I will definitely ask her GC about marking course rigor. Is that a checkbox on the Counselor’s Report of the Common App?
Yes, GCs are asked about course rigor on the common app. Our HS was very transparent about telling students if they would have the “most rigorous” box checked but I’ve learned from CC that not all schools will disclose that information. IMO, worth asking the question of your GC.
On the other other hand, with an act28-30 it’s probably not worth it to stress her out with sub 30% acceptance rate colleges that expect calculus.
For most selective 4- year colleges Precalculus honors is key, compared to precalculus regular
This would be the wrong reason for making this choice. The honors precalc is probably the better option, but only because it would likely be better preparation. If she is only “a good math student when she has a good teacher” then she is not a good math student.
This ^. And do the “Shark Tank” class. It is important to her and sounds like a cool opportunity (might make a great essay). Another option would be to take AP Stats as a Junior, pre-cal in summer school, and pick up another AP senior year since regular Calculus isn’t offered (though maybe she can find a suitable Calc class at a local community college senior year?). She will have plenty of great college options.
I agree. She’ll have great college options with AP stats junior year and precalculus (honors) senior year, or Precalculus taken at any point.
I don’t see why a slightly burned out kid should sacrifice a class she really wants to take because of colleges she isn’t going to apply to/has no realistic chance at but are used as a yardstick on college confidential.
There are SO MANY great colleges - go to the website " colleges that change lives" and see if there’s one or two near your home, then go visit to give her ideas about what she likes or doesn’t like in a college.
(“Name recognition” should go out the window in terms of criteria. Most kids know very few colleges.)
I’d be a bit hesitant about this route if the precalc will be used as foundation for a calc course later (college?) - imo summer school can be risky anyway in terms of condensing a foundational math course into 8 weeks (for some students it is just not sufficient time to properly absorb the material), but especially so with a student who “needs” a good math teacher.
Given the options stated by the OP, I favor “AP stats as a junior and PreCalc Honors as a senior.”
Admission options to selective colleges are more likely to be affected by the ACT (or SAT) scores than the choice of math progression in high school.
I would put into consideration that the student spend extra time to bring up her ACT score. A student with her GPA and math aptitude should be able to score ABOVE “28-30” on the ACT. Take a prep course if necessary.
Actually, 28-30 is quite good - top 10%. (Only on CC is it considered insufficient).
Of course sure she can take a prep course but getting good grades in a rigorous schedule, scoring top 10%, enjoying what she does, will yield lots of good College choices.
@MYOS1634 : Yes, 28-30 is “quite good,” but when I take a look at the CDS for my alma mater, a liberal arts college that’s also “quite good,” I see that for the most recent year 77% of the enrolled first-year students scored in the 30-36 range on the ACT, 22% in the 24-29 range, and 1% in the 18-23 range. This is not the distribution for ADMITTED students (and it doesn’t speak to the admit rate), but it tells me that if I’m applying I would want to score 30 or above.
My only suggestion above was that it would be worthwhile for this applicant to retake the ACT to assure a score of 30 or more. Test scores of course aren’t necessarily decisive – and some very good liberal arts colleges have first-year students with a smaller percentage at 30+ (e.g., Kalamazoo College: 43% scored 30-36 on the ACT).
Reed. I just checked and at Amherst 88% of enrolled students had a composite ACT of 30-36. BTW/ I’ve never been on an admissions committee for first-year students. But I have been on one for doctoral students, both within my department and in all-university fellowship competitions. The first thing I look at when I get an application in my hand is the numbers: test scores, GPA (esp. in major field).
Then I look at the curriculum of undergraduate study and the grades in key courses and overall. Then I read the essays, statements of career goals. Then I read letters of recommendation. I’m going to hinge a lot of my expectation on past performance – curriculum and grades. I’ll read the “softer” part of the application with the numbers as background. In the end it’s not always a test of numbers. I might discount numbers if there is reason to question their validity (applicants from certain countries may have fudged the numbers, or the TOEFL scores are inflated). But I do start with the numbers.
but getting good grades in a rigorous schedule, scoring top 10%, enjoying what she does, will yield lots of good College choices.