<p>No, this is not a thread about people smirking at them, or how there are no jobs for them. I just have a simple question for math majors.</p>
<p>Do the people at the higher level math classes tend to have higher IQs? I am completely serious. I always thought that pure mathematics tend to attract those that have extremely good reasoning skills and the rest that persist are weeded out. My dad insists that as long as an average person works at it, he can definitely do all the work the higher math classes require (PH.D level/Master's level). </p>
<p>He believes that while there are geniuses out there, all average people can definitely get a higher level degree in math as long as he/she works at it. He refuses to listen to me that people have limits and that after a certain point, they just can't comprehend certain concepts no matter how much time they work at it.</p>
<p>Based on your experiences, have you found this to be true?</p>
<p>I disagree with your dad, i doubt the “average” random person off the street is capable of getting a Masters/PhD in math, or even a Bachelor’s. It’s not an easy thing to do. The math we learn in HS involves a lot memorization, but in high level math classes, it’s not about that at all. Also, most people think of math as “numbers” and high level math classes sometimes don’t involve numbers at all. An advanced degree in Math is definitely not something the typical person could do. </p>
<p>Also, don’t think they’re hopeless with jobs. You sure as hell don’t need a Business/Finance degree to go into that field. My dad did a Math degree (also took some econ classes) and is doing pretty well in the finance field. But I can imagine job opportunities in the Math field for Math majors are more limited, but that’s true for all academia, whether it’s humanities/social sci/sciences.</p>
<p>How about the average CC person(high achiever)? He refuses to believe that there is such a thing as a “math person” and a “not math person.” He insists that once you’re at a certain level, you can most anything as long as you work at it. He thinks that once you know a concept, you can definitely apply it to most problems if you work hard enough. Maybe he thinks that way because every time his gpa went down in college, he would schedule another math class the next semester in order to pull up his gpa. Personally I think his idea’s really idealistic.</p>
<p>I must be an optimist on this because I believe anybody can learn it if they apply themselves enough. I don’t think somebody is simply not capable of picking it up; it might be easier for some or take longer for others.</p>
<p>For that reason, I wouldn’t equate it to IQ.</p>
<p>I believe that many people (maybe not all, but definitely the top 20%) can learn the concepts necessary for a Master’s degree in math if they try hard enough and get it presented in a way that works for them. However, most of them won’t be able to pick it up at the pace that a typical graduate course is taught in.</p>
<p>math is all about whether you’ve seen the material before
like delta-epsilon proofs
the first time you see them they’re incomprehensible
and then a few years later they’re easy
then again all subjects are kind of like that
and if you’ve never seen the material before
it can take a while to absorb</p>
<p>This is probably true at an undergraduate or Master’s level, although there are some branches of math that just require the right brain type, or require some really far-fetched way to thinking to arrive at a proof (or even a conjecture). Then, it comes down to talent, and not so much work.</p>
<p>I think that you have to have the natural ability to get a higher math degree. If you think about it, the amount of people who take AP Calc in high school isnt that high.
And there are lots of people who have always been okay at math, but once they get to calc, they have lots of trouble. There is a big difference between people who can do math and people who understand it. Getting a degree is most likely going to be done by the person who understands it. Especially at the graduate level. Because a lot of that level of math is going to be much more abstract and simply setting up an equation and plugging in numbers. It is going to be, how does this and this relate. or how could i use this piece of information and link it to this. It is proving things. not just doing what has already been proven.</p>
<p>As a math major who has been smirked at plenty of times and who has resigned himself to not be able to find suitable employment after college, I feel qualified to answer your question: no, not everyone can get a Master’s or PhD in math.</p>
<p>I do believe, however, that any person smart enough to breeze through high school level Calculus is smart enough to obtain at least a bachelor’s degree in math.</p>
<p>College level math courses, at least at the school I go to, are not that much harder from the Calculus class I took in high school. Some of the harder math courses math majors are required to take in undergrad are Abstract Algebra and Real Analysis. They are not like Calculus, where you sort of picture what you are doing in your head, they are more abstract, more esoteric, without numbers, almost only proofs, and unless you are already passionate about pure mathematics you will most likely ask yourself sooner than later what’s the point of taking those courses.</p>
<p>The problem is, once you go into graduate level math all the courses you take are like Real Analysis and Abstract Algebra, and nice easy courses like Calculus and Differential Equations are a thing of the past.</p>
<p>So, no, people of average intelligence are not smart enough to get a Master’s or PhD in math, perhaps unless they work obsessively at it and can manage to find a way to keep themselves motivated in spite of knowing that their hard work is likely not going to pay off.</p>
<p>^ a PhD in 8 years in a subject like Math is nothing to smirk at, it takes 3-4 years just to get the Bachelors, another 4 years to get the PhD I guess. I would guess the average person is not smart or motivated enough to get a Masters/PhD in Math. i think a lot of us on CC have this “work hard and you can do it!” attitude. But the average American doesn’t get a Bachelor’s, let alone a Masters or PhD, especially in a subject like math. The average American student doesn’t even study Calc in HS, and that’s pretty easy compared to the subjects pmvd mentioned. Or maybe I’m just being cynical here. I’m thinking of the average joe, of Larry the Cable Guy and whether or not he could pull off a Math PhD. Or maybe with lots of hard work and dedication, anything’s possible, I don’t know. </p>
<p>I honestly would guess I’m slightly above average intelligence (sorry if I sound arrogant right now) I’m aiming for a fairly difficult profession that requires a lot of education and I don’t think I’m smart enough to pull off a Masters/PhD in Math. I don’t have the passion for it or intelligence I think.</p>
<p>as a 2nd year student on the track for math major (and reconsidering), yes If you can get an A/B in calc1,2 . you can most likely complete a math degree.</p>
<p>I am reconsidering because I just completed linear algebra and constantly found myself asking…why do all this work if I don’t have a passion for it anymore (linear algebra is just about HALFWAY to what a real math class is like…its still like 50% computation)?
I am struggling to find out how I am going to change to engineering so I can have less career risk, not because of difficulty…both fields do interest me, but for math you really do need to really love it because in times of BIG STRESS working on your latest math class…I would imagine ALL students who don’t love mathematics question themselves…and ask what is this all for again?</p>
<p>So YES I could complete a math degree and more than likely keep a 3.8 gpa but I have to be real to what I want, and I am scared of having to be forced to get a GRADUATE degree (be it in math, or finance, or whatever) or head off to xxxx county board of education for a job…most people know or actually ‘accept’ that math jobs are hard to come by without higher education (and I have not heard of any math phds at decent schools enrolled solely because they want better job prospects, they actually are there because they want to study math…thats not me unfortunately)</p>
The amount of time it takes to get a PhD is highly variable, depending on the field and type of research.</p>
<p>The average amount of time it takes to get a PhD in math is about 6.8 years. However, due to gaps in time between the bachelors and graduate program, the average age at which math PhD students actually get their PhD is 33.5 for research intensive projects and 30.3 for less research intensive projects.</p>
<p>oh I see…I thought you meant 8 years in total for everything, which seemed pretty good to me lol…thanks for the info GoldShadow. </p>
<p>Yeah, like I said earlier, I really don’t think the average american is capable of getting the master’s/phd in math, due to intelligence and motivation. I’m talking about the typical person off the street, the postman and the florist. Not that the average person is dumb, but I just feel like you have to be above average intelligence for this, not average intelligence. But I’m not getting a Math degree so I don’t know how difficult it really is.</p>